French President: Failure for Ukraine peace will result in war

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: sosobad

Everybody is posting their opinion on this crisis, I haven't seen an iota of irrefutable proof anywhere that supports the USA is behind it all.

I also haven't seen an iota of irrefutable proof that Russia is behind it all.

Just follow the money. 5 billion US dollars over the last decade, I would suggest...may be the elephant in the room.

A few years down the line, when this crisis has settled down we will no doubt uncover the reality behind this particular aid program. If we look at fairly recent history we can see that this is how the US operates when regime change comes a calling.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I can give you one example to start with...

You know the history of Henry Kissinger ?...and I mean really know how deeply he`s in with US its foreign policies over many decades ?

So once someone like him says this...

Speaking of Crimea’s accession to Russia, he noted that this is a special case, as Ukraine and Russia were one country for a long time. In his view, the West must recognize its mistakes. "Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine's economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev," said Mr. Kissinger. "All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia."

He is sure that Ukraine has always had a special significance for Russia. Failure to understand this was fatal, and the Ukrainian authorities can forget about the Crimean peninsula. "Nobody in the West has offered a concrete program to restore Crimea," said Mr. Kissinger. "Nobody is willing to fight over eastern Ukraine." In his opinion, introducing anti-Russian sanctions was a mistake.

Source

So while he`s a despicable person, it`s a despicable person at whom you pay attentions to sometimes.

a reply to: midicon

5 billion over a decade... So 500 million a year, there is nothing unusual about that amount there's something like 8 or 9 countries that get that amount from us.

a reply to: Irishhaf

And yea I laugh at the theories that state the USA bought country xyz, that's kind of hard to do when you are catastrophicly broke...Heck the only reason we are afloat is we like buying everyone's junk

5 billion over a decade... So 500 million a year, there is nothing unusual about that amount there's something like 8 or 9 countries that get that amount from us.

If they are so catastrophically broke as you put why were they sending money to Ukraine or any other nation? The money sent to Ukraine was not of an altruistic nature. Americas own house is in disrepair but the send money to all these other countries for bribes/coercion. If the money was innocent why hasn't it been established as to where it was spent yet.....

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Hollande and Merkel are right about a full scale war starting. Basically what they are saying is that the West will finally openly declare Russia has invaded Ukraine. The EU will levy real biting economic sanctions. The US will send boatloads of weapons there. Ukraine will declare War against Russia and call for a full mobilization. NATO will mobilize significant troops but stay out of Ukraine, waiting to see if Putin doubles down and fully invades.

This is the scenario planners don't want to see but it's the next level of pressure against Russia. The current level of sanctions can't be increased all that much...just a few tweeks left in that process. Flying to Moscow and telling Putin face to face where this is going is the diplomatic thing to do. He doesn't believe they will do it of course, but at least they warned him.

Oh really? More weapons supplied to the Ukrainian Army is going to steel their morale? Like they believe so much in their leadership they are willing to commit suicide for them if ordered? And if they and The West can show Putin who is boss, and defeat The Rebels, then the Ukrainian government will suddenly become stable, all of the corruption will immediately disappear, the economy will soar and The Rebels will want to hug the Kiev politicians. Yes, let's show Putin who is boss, and Ukraine will naturally become Utopia. Great plan!

a reply to: sosobad

If the money was innocent why hasn't it been established as to where it was spent yet.....

Because some people refuse to look:

www.usaid.gov...

Now you can call me names because you refuse to believe what is easily accessible information.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So while he`s a despicable person, it`s a despicable person at whom you pay attentions to sometimes.

So you agree with Doctor Kissinger when he politely says that Russia is like a possessive, insecure child who is likely to tantrum if he does not get his way? Because that's what he means. Russia easily feels threatened and can react violently, so don't do anything to upset it.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

If the money was innocent why hasn't it been established as to where it was spent yet.....

Because some people refuse to look:

www.usaid.gov...

Now you can call me names because you refuse to believe what is easily accessible information.

From your link

Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people.

That still leaves 3.2 billion unaccounted for and that is over 20 years not the 10 we are talking about. No need to call you names, I won't stoop to your level.

a reply to: sosobad

The rest is from NGOs, you'll have to look each of them up individually.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

The rest is from NGOs, you'll have to look each of them up individually.

Not me that has to prove it, happy hunting.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

The rest is from NGOs, you'll have to look each of them up individually.

Not me that has to prove it, happy hunting.

Are you interested in knowing or not? If not, what's your point? Happy denial!

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

The rest is from NGOs, you'll have to look each of them up individually.

Not me that has to prove it, happy hunting.

Are you interested in knowing or not? If not, what's your point? Happy denial!

In other words you can't prove it, gotcha.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

The rest is from NGOs, you'll have to look each of them up individually.

Not me that has to prove it, happy hunting.

Are you interested in knowing or not? If not, what's your point? Happy denial!

In other words you can't prove it, gotcha.

In other words, you are clinging to "argument from ignorance." Gotcha.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

The rest is from NGOs, you'll have to look each of them up individually.

Not me that has to prove it, happy hunting.

Are you interested in knowing or not? If not, what's your point? Happy denial!

In other words you can't prove it, gotcha.

In other words, you are clinging to "argument from ignorance." Gotcha.

You posted to me claiming you gave proof, I showed you how you didn't and now you are trying to burden me with making your claim true. You are clinging to a false argument until I can prove it for you. Not just ignorance but laziness.

a reply to: sosobad

We are catastrophicly broke, but our foreign aid is statisticaly insignificant in our debt.

And 5 billion over a decade is not unusual so since your convinced we "bought" the UUkraine, do you also believe we also "bought" the other countries that received an equal amount?

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: sosobad

We are catastrophicly broke, but our foreign aid is statisticaly insignificant in our debt.

And 5 billion over a decade is not unusual so since your convinced we "bought" the UUkraine, do you also believe we also "bought" the other countries that received an equal amount?

Totally, why does the US or any other nation donate money? To ensure cooperation, please don't tell me that you are that naive that you believe donations are totally for the betterment of another countries welfare? It's a bargaining chip.

a reply to: sosobad

You posted to me claiming you gave proof, I showed you how you didn't and now you are trying to burden me with making your claim true. You are clinging to a false argument until I can prove it for you. Not just ignorance but laziness.

Wrong: I implied that you were "arguing from ignorance," which is a fallacy, and demonstrated that it is possible to discover the information you are ignorant of. Your syllogism seems to be: "unless we can account for every penny spent, we can only assume that it is being spent for nefarious purposes." This is unsound on the face of it, and I showed that, if knowing how every penny is spent is a genuine issue, there are ways to investigate it. Proof of principle, not an accession to your demands for exhaustive and conclusive documentation, which you would no doubt reject in the same way you rejected the proof of principle.

Just admit that you have no evidence that any of the aid money went to anything that did not benefit the Ukrainian people.

a reply to: sosobad

Totally, why does the US or any other nation donate money? To ensure cooperation, please don't tell me that you are that naive that you believe donations are totally for the betterment of another countries welfare? It's a bargaining chip.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why?

a reply to: DJW001

Just admit that you have no evidence that any of the aid money went to anything that did not benefit the Ukrainian people.

And you have not proved where it was spent. Where did it go?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

Totally, why does the US or any other nation donate money? To ensure cooperation, please don't tell me that you are that naive that you believe donations are totally for the betterment of another countries welfare? It's a bargaining chip.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why?

Point out where I said I have a problem with it.