Disshonest Company

As you probably do not know, I work, well am a manager and the Head of IT for a local commercial cleaning company here where I live. I'm not going to give the name of my company, but I will surely give the name of the people we just got away from. Cleannet is a terrible company. First they tried to get us to clean a 9k square foot Dialysis Center...we told them not for that price. Well we got them talked up to 1500 (six days a week, still FAR too low, but we wanted to expand into a new area. Ok, so the "contract" started out that we were not to move any equipment, touch any machines, not to touch needles, blood, etc. The by the end of the FIRST week we were pulling everything out, sterilizing everything, cleaning out the fridge, microwave, cleaning bio hazard "dumps" whatever they are called. They didn't pay us on time, and when they did pay us, they sent it for the first amount and said they didn't sign our contract so they aren't bound to anything, not even our late-fee. What kind of bull# is that!? We aren't the smarted people in the world, if we were, we sure as hell wouldn't be cleaning toilets for a living (I'm the only one there with a degree within the cleaning company I work for and will soon have a second next spring, besides the point). How can a company sub contract another company out and put their health at risk, and LIE to them about everything, not sign their contract, and then tell them they can basically do whatever they want "because we are in a pinch and never signed a contract with you). We gave our notice about a month in and they asked us to stay another month whilst they found someone else to clean for them. So, we did, trying to make things right...and they still treat us like that? Not really sure what to do. I'm printing the invoices off, emails, texts, etc. and reporting it because we have to pay TAXES on the amount issued; not what's paid. That's about all I can do -- right? UGH!

a reply to: wwe9112

Here's the thing, you must have had a verbal contract of some sort, between your company or representatives thereof, and the company you are upset with, an understanding of sorts between the two entities, that for your companies part works would be completed, and on the part of the company who asked for your services to pay you for the service rendered.

So legally speaking, a lack of paperwork is hardly an impediment to getting this money out of the nefarious buggers who owe it to you. You would not have done the work if you did not expect to be paid!

Sorry dude, no contract means your pretty well screwed. Even going to court it ends up in he said she said. Mark this one up as a learning experience and move on. And if this company ever calls back, put the screws to them.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: wwe9112

Here's the thing, you must have had a verbal contract of some sort, between your company or representatives thereof, and the company you are upset with, an understanding of sorts between the two entities, that for your companies part works would be completed, and on the part of the company who asked for your services to pay you for the service rendered.

So legally speaking, a lack of paperwork is hardly an impediment to getting this money out of the nefarious buggers who owe it to you. You would not have done the work if you did not expect to be paid!

Yeah, there was a verbal agreement but we cannot even get these...to answer their phones, texts, etc. I'm not even exactly sure what to do to be honest lol. I don't know who to report, I don't know where to report. This company is reaaaal shady and we were told that by multiple companies that we are friends with. Unfortunately, we thought we could change that and be on good terms....unfortunately not.

a reply to: wwe9112

Well I would speak to a legal professional if I were you.

Seems like a good old fashioned case of "total bastard" if you ask me.

Always get a written contract with signatures; otherwise you may never be fully paid.

if you live in the u.s check out avvo for legal advice. it's pretty darn legit.

but yeah, no contract isn't good. if you could prove a verbal agreement thatd be a start. make sure u gather all evidence (texts, invoices, memos etc)

I used to work as a cleaner. We dealt with some companies like that. Things would start one way and before I knew it I had extra stuff that wasn't even in the contract added to what I had to do, all with the same time limit to do it in. My boss would always cave. I hated that.
You mentioned having to deal with used needles and bio hazard stuff. I thought that the average cleaner wasn't supposed to mess with stuff like that because of risk of infection. The medical places I cleaned had people who were licensed to deal with it. That was in Indiana, though. I'm not sure if the laws are different in West Virginia or not.

Never, ever carry on working on money promise. When they said keep working till they get someone else you should have said "ok but pay me in advance or no deal". Owe you a dollar or owe you ten dollars it makes no difference to them but to you it could mean solvency or bankruptcy.
Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

a reply to: wwe9112

Because, my dear friend, that is how "outsourcing" works, that is the very definition of the business model.

Welcome to unregulated capitalism.

If they change the cleaning level and details then...BEFORE you start doing it...they MUST sign a new contract with a new price. To be honest I find it a bit surprising a company would think to do business like that without a signed contract in detail. You have nothing to enforce whatsoever without it. You did say you're the only one with higher education, so there could be a problem at your company right there.

a reply to: wwe9112

Are you licensed and bonded to handle biohazardous materials? If it is a commercial establishment, they would know that they have to hire the correct contractors by Federal Law.

Put the screws to em' - pay the bill or you will inform the State and Feds and most important their Clients!

I hate people in business that don't pay their bills. That is your mortgage payment or your kid's food budget...pop em' good!

That verbal contract was not worth the paper it was written on did they have CCTV there get a copy of it which they have to by law - say someone from your firm injured themselves and you will have them for illegal practise - then turn the screw on them

a reply to: FyreByrd

How is that outsourcing? The company the Original Poster works for got hosed because they did not do their due diligence and get a contract signed. With a signed contract, and eventual non-payment, there are available options to collect remuneration.

a reply to: wwe9112

What country are you in?

I cannot help you if I don't know what laws I'm dealing with/looking up.

Edit:

Phone sucks, I see West Virginia. I will post again shortly with some ideas.

I'm printing the invoices off, emails, texts, etc. and reporting it because we have to pay TAXES on the amount issued; not what's paid. That's about all I can do -- right? UGH!

So first things first, what type of accounting do you use? Do you use cash or accrual? If you don't know what I'm talking about then you have not researched/prepared for the business enough to expect it to thrive. Also, in the latter scenario I can't help you because I don't even know what accounting is used.

Second, hindsight being 12/20...I don't know what college you went to but in basic business law you learn that with every transaction you need a contract. A contract can either be in the form of a receipt(for simple transactions) or a written legal document. Why you would start cleaning this business without obtaining a legal contract between said business and you hurts my brain.

We are in the age of the internet and have everything we could possibly want at our fingertips.

Whyyyyy!!?

...and just who is going to enforce that law. No money to pay 'government' inspectors. Starve the regulators. Do you really think big business is going to follow the law?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: FyreByrd

How is that outsourcing? The company the Original Poster works for got hosed because they did not do their due diligence and get a contract signed. With a signed contract, and eventual non-payment, there are available options to collect remuneration.

Because friend, the business model is to 'exteriorize' any expense thereby laying any blame for 'incidents' on another but not paying the 'subcontractor' sufficiently to do the job. Rather then taking responsibility for getting the work done and done properly - they hire the lowest bidder and in this case the bid was made for an inadequate and changing scope of work. None of this is uncommon. The larger business knows that the smaller one doesn't have the wherewithall to carry out a protracted legal proceeding.

Yes the subcontractor made mistakes. But that doesn't excuse the preditory and deceitful behavoir of the hiring firm.

a reply to: FyreByrd

All which would have been legally outlined if they had a signed contract.

Contracts are there to protect people and businesses from such behavior. Failing to get one is no one's fault except the contractor.

Sorry, just got home. It's not my PERSONAL company. I am a computer technician -- in college for Software Engineering lol...nothing to do with business. I managed to work myself into where I am today...that's all besides the point.

We get paid by check. They just kept saying they would sign them and we have NEVER had problems with anyone and we have dealt with banks, insurance company's, just about everything. This was our first medical facility, however. But we have worked before contracts get signed when they are in a pinch...until now. Now we won't, that is for sure.

Yes, I am the only one with a higher education. The cleaners obviously won't have higher education (well, one does but it's liberal arts, hardly counts xD, jk jk). The owner was a nurse, so she has a BSN.

But like I said, the dialysis center was in a pinch -- we have NOTHING against the dialysis center aside from them being careless. It's the company that their corporate hired to do their cleaning contracts that we have a problem with. We found out that they offer the same amount for all their places. We keep getting calls from the same company, different representatives, nearly 2 hours away -- offering the same amount. We aren't doing business with the company that the corporate hired to do their cleaning contracts again. If that made any sense at all.

As I said, we have cleaned for multiple places, including banks, before they signed a contract. We understand, a cleaning company walks out and business must go on. So we still clean and set a date to get the contract signed. We send it out to whomever would be in charge of that kind of thing; they read over it and say, "yeah we can agree to that," or "no we don't like this that or the other," and we negotiate. Usually throughout the first day before we go in. Set a date we meet up, and then sign each others papers. Business goes on and we understand that, so we do our best to accommodate for the respective facilities. Perhaps that will change.