Listen Muslims/Islam

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Well when I get to the other side if there actually is then I will be wrong...I can not state for fact there isn't one just as someone cannot state as fact there is one...so we are n
On equal ground.

For all the hand-wringing not one large scale protest against the murders from the Islamic world. Those who have are almost entirely qualified with a "but they shouldn't have done it tagline".

No thanks.

But how about this...

Independent

Protests against Charlie Hebdo’s depiction of the Prophet Mohamed have continued to grow in strength in some parts of the predominantly Muslim world, as publishers confirmed that a new edition of the magazine won’t be released for a number of weeks.

In Chechnya, extraordinary images showed hundreds of thousands taking to the streets after the Kremlin-backed regional government declared a holiday for people to attend the demonstration.

This thread isn't about, me convincing you, it is about me expressing my view. Nobody has convinced me otherwise because their arguments are weak and so covered in caveats its not worth the effort responding to.

Yeah, so that's a public holiday and 800,000 on the streets in favour of what happened. And its not the only such response.

LOVELY.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I call it racism because it is the simplest word to use and has the widest definition (considering race doesn't exist and all). I guess you could call it bigotry though. In any case it is the same class of intolerance as racism.

BS. I was fully tolerant up until the disgusting events of Charlie Hebdo.

You can try that line if you like but it just discredits you entirely.

It's like those who scream "anti-Semitism" when people criticise Israel. Nonsense and infantile.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Wow just what ATS needs, another stupid, ignorant & absurd thread/post asking for all Muslims to take to the streets and condemn the attacks.

I don't think the OP is saying that. He's questioning why he hasn't heard governments of Islanmic countries condemning this, not ALL Muslims apologizing.

"Most Islamic nations appear to have shown no solidarity with those murdered and only protested against the cartoons/freedom of speech.


YET

Politicians have said nothing. They have NOT spoke up for the people of the west."

Correct. But i would just say - I don't expect apologies, I expect on the basis of human solidarity people from these countries and their governments to condemn the acts.

I have heard precious little of that. I've heard PLENTY in support.

"There's none so blind as those that will not see".

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: UnBreakable

The problem is they have

en.wikipedia.org...

There are a number of predominently Islamic countries on that list, including Albania, Afghanistan, Algeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kosovo, Malaysia, Morocco, Pakistan, Palestine, Turkey and UAE ALL of which condemned the attack.

Just because the poster is ill informed, does not mean he is right.

I'm not ill informed, I'm expecting not just to hear from the diplomats but from the people. The silence is deafening.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kaylaluv

So sad... This is EXACTLY what these Islamophobes wanted and they STILL show their hatred. Ah well, they've shown the true colors of the "we want Muslims to protest terrorism" movement. It's all rhetoric to disguise their bigotry.

I'm glad you mentioned bigotry. Lets also throw intolerance into the mix.

So, lets hear it - do you consider murdering people in their place of work an act of bigotry? How about chopping off someones head just because they're a westerner?

Do you think tolerance should only work one way?

Maybe you think people should just bow down and say nothing about such events?

Go on, you tell me - what SHOULD the response to such events be and why?

a reply to: citizenx1

So, lets hear it - do you consider murdering people in their place of work an act of bigotry? How about chopping off someones head just because they're a westerner?

Let's call things what they are - what this was was a heinous crime committed by a specific group of individuals with a very specific ideology

Go on, you tell me - what SHOULD the response to such events be and why?

The proper response is anger and outrage directed at those that are directly responsible. It's inconvenient that they were killed - they should have had a trial. Something for all the world to see

You seem to want to hold an entire demographic responsible for the actions of a few. It doesn't matter if it was three people or three thousand - it wasn't, and never will be - all Muslims

Get a grip

I'm guessing you have no intention of getting a grip. So, since you asked the question - what do you think the proper response should be?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
The proper response is anger and outrage directed at those that are directly responsible. It's inconvenient that they were killed - they should have had a trial. Something for all the world to see

A trial? Of whom, pray tell?

Those who pulled the trigger?

Laughable.

You seem to want to hold an entire demographic responsible for the actions of a few. It doesn't matter if it was three people or three thousand - it wasn't, and never will be - all Muslims

You SIMPLY AREN'T LISTENING, are you?

I DO NOT EXPECT apologies from those who weren't involved, nor do I want them to be "held responsible". I CANNOT say it clearly enough.

What I DO want is to know - Do you condemn or condone? It is simple. This DOES NOT simply apply to muslims BUT they are the ones who've been suspiciously quiet on the subject. Anyone with a few functioning braincells would have to ask why that is.

I'm guessing you have no intention of getting a grip. So, since you asked the question - what do you think the proper response should be?

Here in the UK, the simple answer is to change the legislation on the ownership of handguns. I'm not talking about US style free for all. That isn't us BUT that those of a certain again and above, with no history of criminality or mental health issues should be allowed to own, conceal and carry handguns.

This will mean there are NO soft targets and massacres on this type of scale simply won't be possible any more.

Then its a case of: your move next and we'll go from there.

This is Europe - not a place where we cower and wilt when faced with an enemy.

a reply to: citizenx1
From your OP:

Since the attacks on Paris, I've noticed how little we've heard condemning the events from the Muslim world. For clarity, sure some western muslims have said they didn't support what happened, many condemned. But what of Islamic nations, where are the responses from the people of these countries?

So from my perspective: The majority of western muslims appear to have been silent. People will suspect this is because they support what happened or at least, think that they "brought it on themselves". A few western muslims have spoken out but many have qualified that criticism by saying people should not be allowed to "insult the prophet" (i.e. restriction on freedom of speech). Most Islamic nations appear to have shown no solidarity with those murdered and only protested against the cartoons/freedom of speech.

And now - you're shouting:

What I DO want is to know - Do you condemn or condone? It is simple. This DOES NOT simply apply to muslims BUT they are the ones who've been suspiciously quiet on the subject. Anyone with a few functioning braincells would have to ask why that is.

Nice try :-)

Here in the UK, the simple answer is to change the legislation on the ownership of handguns. I'm not talking about US style free for all. That isn't us BUT that those of a certain again and above, with no history of criminality or mental health issues should be allowed to own, conceal and carry handguns.

This will mean there are NO soft targets and massacres on this type of scale simply won't be possible any more.

Yes, the U.S. example is stellar - no soft target massacres on our soil - and we are armed to the teeth

Your argument is incoherent

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: citizenx1
From your OP:

Since the attacks on Paris, I've noticed how little we've heard condemning the events from the Muslim world. For clarity, sure some western muslims have said they didn't support what happened, many condemned. But what of Islamic nations, where are the responses from the people of these countries?

So from my perspective: The majority of western muslims appear to have been silent. People will suspect this is because they support what happened or at least, think that they "brought it on themselves". A few western muslims have spoken out but many have qualified that criticism by saying people should not be allowed to "insult the prophet" (i.e. restriction on freedom of speech). Most Islamic nations appear to have shown no solidarity with those murdered and only protested against the cartoons/freedom of speech.

And now - you're shouting:

What I DO want is to know - Do you condemn or condone? It is simple. This DOES NOT simply apply to muslims BUT they are the ones who've been suspiciously quiet on the subject. Anyone with a few functioning braincells would have to ask why that is.

Nice try :-)

Here in the UK, the simple answer is to change the legislation on the ownership of handguns. I'm not talking about US style free for all. That isn't us BUT that those of a certain again and above, with no history of criminality or mental health issues should be allowed to own, conceal and carry handguns.

This will mean there are NO soft targets and massacres on this type of scale simply won't be possible any more.

Yes, the U.S. example is stellar - no soft target massacres on our soil - and we are armed to the teeth

Your argument is incoherent

Nope, it isn't. It is very clear.

Alas, I've learnt not to waste my time with people who discuss subjects as you do.

Off you pop.

a reply to: citizenx1

Wasn't it you that just said this?

This is Europe - not a place where we cower and wilt when faced with an enemy.

:-)

Let me know if you change your mind

originally posted by: citizenx1

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I call it racism because it is the simplest word to use and has the widest definition (considering race doesn't exist and all). I guess you could call it bigotry though. In any case it is the same class of intolerance as racism.

BS. I was fully tolerant up until the disgusting events of Charlie Hebdo.

You can try that line if you like but it just discredits you entirely.

It's like those who scream "anti-Semitism" when people criticise Israel. Nonsense and infantile.

So explain to me how the actions of a select group of people killing people at a French magazine characterizes the views and opinions of the entire population.

originally posted by: citizenx1
I'm glad you mentioned bigotry. Lets also throw intolerance into the mix.

So, lets hear it - do you consider murdering people in their place of work an act of bigotry? How about chopping off someones head just because they're a westerner?

I don't recall condoning the actions of terrorists. What is your point?

Do you think tolerance should only work one way?

Maybe you think people should just bow down and say nothing about such events?

Go on, you tell me - what SHOULD the response to such events be and why?

The response should be that we don't let our emotions get the better of us every time a terrorist attack hits us and overreact to the extreme. Which is the case currently.

Last I checked, what those people did is illegal, how about starting with arresting the terrorists (too late for that though...), then trying to figure out who they worked for? You know, actual police work.

But nah, it's too much easier to just yell, scream, and demonize the whole population for the actions of a few. Tell you what, next time a Christian fire bombs an abortion clinic, I'll blame all Christians for the actions of that Christian, that sounds fair.