Listen Muslims/Islam

I think this OP pretty much says it all. The Muslim world and the liberal democratic West are two different entities.

We know this to be true by the way the Muslim world treats women, minorities and political/social freedoms. Try beig gay in any Muslim county - in some Muslim countries girls are exclued from education!

Two different worldviews. We (in the West) should let the Muslim world be. We need to reassert our approach to a secular state and sort out some of the social problems brought about by the inability or unwilingness of different cultures (including Muslims) to integtate in the countries they have chosen to live in.

Regards

a reply to: citizenx1


So the actions by elected governments who act on our behalf - we voted them in- are now comparable to violent extremist terrorists who answer to nobody and have no authority?
No wonder you guys don't have an argument, you can't even grasp logic.

How about placing the blame where it belongs .. with the idiot who provoked it by knowingly drawing a cartoon meant to offend along with the magazine that knowingly published it ..
With freedom of speach comes responsibility to use it wisely ...

originally posted by: stargatetravels
a reply to: citizenx1


So the actions by elected governments who act on our behalf - we voted them in- are now comparable to violent extremist terrorists who answer to nobody and have no authority?
No wonder you guys don't have an argument, you can't even grasp logic.

Actually, the current government in the UK was voted for by less than 1/6th of the population.

The problem with our electoral system is that that the main parties represent a tiny proportion of the political spectrum (akin to the EM spectrum - it only represents the visible light part). Those in power are tied into a geopolicial game which most of us don't understand BUT know it doesn't represent our values.

People do speak out and stand up but are ignored - entirely.

The irony is, and its sickening - we then try and impose this system on those who don't want and haven't asked for it.

originally posted by: Expat888
How about placing the blame where it belongs .. with the idiot who provoked it by knowingly drawing a cartoon meant to offend along with the magazine that knowingly published it ..
With freedom of speach comes responsibility to use it wisely ...

Because the "idiot" who "provoked it" was living in a purportedly "free" country where he was entitled to express a view. His expectation would be that "sure, disagree with me, lets discuss/debate/argue" BUT he had no reason to expect to be gunned down for doing so.

Are you really saying you should be allowed to go around shooting people you disagree with?!

Just a question to those who are asking for apologies from the muslim world. When in your life have you ever apologised for something you didn't do or take part in?

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Just a question to those who are asking for apologies from the muslim world. When in your life have you ever apologised for anything you didn't do or take part in?

You're missing the point. It isn't about an apology, its about saying they don't support it. This isn't about some "touchy-feely" exercise but one to say - "don't get the wrong idea about us, we don't want this and we don't want you to have to respond".

originally posted by: citizenx1


Actually, the current government in the UK was voted for by less than 1/6th of the population.

And what does that have to do with the Invasions of iraq/Afghan??
The 'Current Government' were not in charge were they?
I'm pretty sure Tony Blair was your leader at the time and I'm sure he had a far greater number of voters so again, you have no point.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Just a question to those who are asking for apologies from the muslim world. When in your life have you ever apologised for something you didn't do or take part in?

I don't think that those of you who think like this quite grasp how angry some of us are getting.

We are looking for something, anything from the world of Islam that says 'hey guys, we're not cool with the terrorists either' Even better from them would be 'Let's sort this problem out together as citizens of planet earth'

But so far all we have heard is eerie silence from them.

a reply to: citizenx1

Any idiot with half a brain would have known better. The entire thing was deliberatly done to inflame tensions and start conflict .. its done exactly that as intended .. and idiots like you let yourselves be manipulated into the coming war by falling for the bull# youve been fed.
Carry on your masters will need you and all the rest for cannon fodder before its done ..

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Just a question to those who are asking for apologies from the muslim world. When in your life have you ever apologised for something you didn't do or take part in?

It does happen you know, and at Goverment level too

originally posted by: stargatetravels

originally posted by: citizenx1


Actually, the current government in the UK was voted for by less than 1/6th of the population.

And what does that have to do with the Invasions of iraq/Afghan??
The 'Current Government' were not in charge were they?
I'm pretty sure Tony Blair was your leader at the time and I'm sure he had a far greater number of voters so again, you have no point.

The 2001-2005 government (nb: election happened PRIOR to 9/11) received 10.7m votes. The current government received 17.5m votes.

Turnout in 2001: 59.4%, turnout 2010: 65.1%.

Hope that helps.

I agree we need to tackle the problem of Islamic extremism, I'm just not sure you can expect a billion odd people to apologise for something they didn't personally do. It's an unrealistic expectation.a reply to: citizenx1

Here we go again. Where were the millions of gun rights advocates in the streets shouting "not in my name" when Adam Lanza brutally shot and killed all those children with a gun? Now I know, they secretly agreed with what he did.

a reply to: citizenx1

You know, it isn't very long ago I would have said pretty much the same thing but I think i've explained why my thinking has changed.

Maybe yours will at some point, maybe it won't.

I woke up to the never ending lies the west promotes as means to an end. I'm never changing back to that other imposed way of thinking. Why would I?

originally posted by: Expat888
a reply to: citizenx1

Any idiot with half a brain would have known better. The entire thing was deliberatly done to inflame tensions and start conflict .. its done exactly that as intended .. and idiots like you let yourselves be manipulated into the coming war by falling for the bull# youve been fed.
Carry on your masters will need you and all the rest for cannon fodder before its done ..

Again, I'd ordinarily fully accept what you're saying and i'm not going to fully disagree BUT i will say that there comes a point where a line is crossed. Right now, if it hasn't were right on it and its not going to take much more to push western nations over it.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
I agree we need to tackle the problem of Islamic extremism, I'm just not sure you can expect a billion odd people to apologise for something they didn't personally do. It's an unrealistic expectation.a reply to: citizenx1

For clarity, I'm not asking for an apology, I'm asking for clarity as to the thinking of people in the Islamic world. Silence can only lead to one conclusion.

if your arm got infected you would cut it off to prevent it spreading
even if a few fingers are good you cannot keep the arm
it jeopardises the whole body this world is not fair and it never has been
thats not ideal but thats what we got
common sense spells it out for us we gotta cut that arm off sorry fingers you gotta go

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Here we go again. Where were the millions of gun rights advocates in the streets shouting "not in my name" when Adam Lanza brutally shot and killed all those children with a gun? Now I know, they secretly agreed with what he did.

This really isn't comparable.

Firstly, a one-off crime committed by an unhinged individual has happened the world over for time immemorial. Here in the UK, our governments have successively restricted the sale of guns to the public.

I believe now, you can get a shotgun in very narrow circumstances but thats it.

No hanguns, no automatic or semi automatic weapons, nothing.


Next, it is an internal issue within the states, not a cross boundary battle of ideologies.

Third, in most cases, the ownership of a gun is not the over-riding definition of the individual - either in their own view or of that around them. Belonging to a faith absolutely is in most cases.

Alas, I think you fail to appreciate the significance of how things stand in Europe and presumably other parts of the world where these threats are most prevalent. Yes, the US had the experience of one of the worst atrocities of all time BUT the threat there is significantly lower than in other parts of the world.

originally posted by: citizenx1



Do I expect people of Islamic nations to say sorry? No. I DO expect them to say "we don't agree with this, it isn't in our name" BECAUSE without such comments, we must conclude it IS something they support.

IF they do, then all bets are off. If the west and Islamic nations ever do engage in a full-on war i will say this - we've got more tech and infrastructure.

We'll be using a cruise missles against a donkey carrying a few AK-47's.

Mind you, the bigger threat in the west are sleeper cells in our towns and cities but in such a war, we'd take up arms and they wouldn't have any soft targets.

If majority muslim nations/muslims supported isis you would see terrorist attacks happen every day all over the globe and they for sure would already have joined the so called caliphate.

And please cut the bs about cruise missiles and whatnot. It's impossible to wage war against 1.6 billion of people, that scenario would send us all back to the stone age.

If you want to win this war without a fight than stop bombing muslim countries every decade,stop overthrowing their governments,stop supporting Israel at everything they do,stop droning weddings and funurals and stop being a f hypocrite.
How many french people protested against their country bombing Libya? None.