Gotta love double standards ..

a reply to: Expat888

How is this for an idea. Make fun of everyone, everything and every religion. If the individual or group you offend decides to try to kill you...THEY are the problem and need to be erased. I like that idea!! In fact...I LOVE THAT IDEA! Why? Then you get rid of the true haters...the haters willing to kill for their hate.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I'm with the OP on this. Hypocrisy abounds. They're going around arresting people for hate speech, cracking down on social media commenters, and simultaneously proclaiming free speech a sacred right.

Though I think there is a difference in what is being defended- the americans refer to generalized free speech, the french are focusing more on the freedom of the press- the press is allowed to do or say what they want, but not the public.

I want to make another point-
The cartoons published are not funny- they are not humorous. The only thing that gives them attention is the fact that they depict a drawn image of the prophet Mahomet, which is prohibited in Islam.

There is only a snarkiness in doing that, there is nothing to laugh at in the cartoons- except those that find it funny to poke and provoke that part of the population.

A little bit can be shrugged off as a lack of tact and class, but at this point, it is becoming downright stupid and irresponsible. It is pressing everyone to take their sides of the battle field, and some will be joining the extremists, when they were once moderate, just out of a need to defend themselves from constant harrassing.

This is expected. All of it. "They" are in rough waters, and worldwide. If they let go of the wheel now, when waters are rough, then they are done. It is time to put the reigns on the public muzzle once and for all, for zionism, and technofascism, and globally. The latest media tactic is to clap the word "World" in front of or behind everything they promote. Can you guess what their aim is? And everyone they hire now, I mean everyone, is speaking in that creaky feel good voice, like all is well. Like that thing in your mouth, is comfort food, not kosher sausage.

I am so glad to have found this posting, because in another post I saw you were saying that the press is goading the public into more police etc…and it sounded like you were all for it…the police. Yeah. That's what we need. More police. Like the one who play acted for the mossad and managed to keep his head and not even twitch….

I believe even admins are catching on. I saw some posts today that had me wondering if I weren't hallucinating.
Some will never learn. People died. It's ALL TRUE.

It will all backfire. Eventually the Christians will wise up to the Media Kings and their inability to tell anything straight.

France is in the middle of a zionist psy-op. Payback for recognizing that their master's enemy, has a right to state. For this, France, and the world, will be brought to it's knees. I hope you like guys it cut. Goodbye, France.

# 345

a reply to: Expat888

so essentially it IS the gun that kills a person, not the hand

Gotcha

Playful perhaps but this is tantamount to what your assertion is. An article does not kill. People who are offended kill. Guns do not kill. Brains that control a finger wrapped around a trigger kill. I am not Christian. I believe the one and only is the goddess. People have ridiculed or even playfully poked fun at me, and everything in between. If I now pack a bag full of C-4 and blow up the WBS ((which because we are in post 9-11 let me make REAL CLEAR I am making an analogy...KyoZero will not harm anyone)) then who is at fault? WBS or me?

We know that SOME extremists will murder others. This is true. So we should bow to that and never say a word? Should we never write anything offensive ever again? And then YOU want to call those who enjoy true free speech the "saves" when a large portion of ATS members are battling every day to remove "slavery" by entering discourse to expose those who put the shackles on us in the first place? I find it so appalling that you would brand someone with free speech the cause of violence. Again...right back to the gun vs. hand debate. The gun CLEARLY makes it easier to kill a human. So is it the gun's fault? Is it H&K's fault? Glock's? Or perhaps, is it the person who held the gun and pulled the trigger? Is it perhaps the men who walked into the CH office and gunned down people?

So this is an honest, emotionless question I promise you. But here it is and I look forward greatly to your answer

What is the solution then? Should we stick to magazines, print and streaming media reporting only feel-good stories? Should all comedians henceforth make no joke that could insult a group?

Again...I promise this is not incendiary. I really want to know your solution.

a reply to: Bluesma

So in other words, we should just let killers be killers and not point these things out? We should not be able to poke fun at a small group of people who think it's ok to kill others while at the same time burning an American flag? Interesting.

No...it's crap. See it is totally ok to make fun of say, the LGBT crowd because we generally don't run around and bomb a building. But when these extremists ((and I mean JUST the extremists...not the entire group)) blow up a building or gun a group down we should just slap a palm over our mouth and not point out what these imbeciles are doing to the world?

Fine...from here on out I don't want to hear one more word about Obama screwing this country up. No more please. I'd also like to not hear anything about black people being violent ever again. I'd likewise not hear anything about the "white master race." NOTHING. I want the news to be about kittens. I want all satire to end TODAY. I would like a direct order to all comedians, regardless or sex, orientation or race to stop making any jokes deemed offensive to anyone else.

If someone could please get on this I'd be grateful

Thank you

This is the only thing I'm going to say on the subject.
Yes, as the above poster said, there is a "snarkyness" to posting those photos. But when 17 of your colleagues are slaughtered, you deserve that one thing.
They KILL your friends and co-workers and all you do is retaliate by insulting their religion. Boo-frickin-hoo, get over it.

You're a #ing moron.

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: Bluesma

So in other words, we should just let killers be killers and not point these things out? We should not be able to poke fun at a small group of people who think it's ok to kill others while at the same time burning an American flag? Interesting.

I have no idea how or where you come to this conclusion from what I wrote.

NOT all muslims think it is ok to kill others while at the same time burning an american flag!
I don't know if you have been just misinformed by the popular media in your country or what, but the majority of muslims in France do not do any such thing. Therefore, I see no reason to harrass them repeatedly.

Poking fun.... try to understand, burning an american flag is about the same thing for americans as drawing a picture of the Prophet is to Muslims. Do you consider that flag burning funny? Just a friendly joke?

How many americans didn't feel a strong repulsion to all Muslims until they saw that?

Well, here we have a group of ten or more people, who decided to insult a huge population strongly, repeatedly, in the same way. People who had nothing against white people, or the french, will change their minds. From peaceful and non conflictual, they will become so.

Now, the biggest point in my post was the hypocrisy of the french media and authorities- arresting people for speech, under the sacred claim of free speech. That doesn't apologize for any of the terrorist actions- it points out that whenever one is being hypocritical, and self contradicting, they can expect to come against opposition from others. The problems are not over.

Fine...from here on out I don't want to hear one more word about Obama screwing this country up. No more please. I'd also like to not hear anything about black people being violent ever again. I'd likewise not hear anything about the "white master race." NOTHING. I want the news to be about kittens. I want all satire to end TODAY. I would like a direct order to all comedians, regardless or sex, orientation or race to stop making any jokes deemed offensive to anyone else.

I get a bit lost in all this, not sure where some of it can be related to what I said, only the last part about comedians.
Going from one extreme into another is a silly tactic in any argument. Rational and reasonable people don't need to.

There can be a way of mocking, teasing, and using satire, while keeping a certain amount of tasteful respect.

How many comedians burning american flags on stage? Most of them know- that isn't very funny, and it steps out of comedy and into purposeful provocation of hostility.

Charlie Hebdo could make fun of muslims with their cartoons- with drawings of muslims doing or saying silly things, characterizing their habits, behaviors, traditions.... but without drawing an image of Muhammad. Frankly, that would be more funny to most of the french, who would recognize cultural clashes they deal with daily.

But no, I guess funny satire and poking fun was not the intent.

a reply to: Bluesma

yup...I am going to fix this as best I can. No kidding, as I woke up today remembering this post I thought "crap...that did not come out how I planned."

So here I am to reconcile what I said and apologize for that portion of it

I am quite sorry for the insinuation of what I said. I take 100% of the blame and make no excuse.

What I MEANT to say...and hell I even quoted the wrong person...

Was that I think freedom of speech should continue regardless of the group or people or person or situation we are discussing. Meaning, I don't agree with OP's assertion that we should lower our voices because people might react in an inappropriate manner. I think we should be able to continue using satire or realism or whatever you want to brand it so long as you are specifically not inciting violence.

The point I was very poorly trying to make was that if we point something out, and some radical gets mad and murders someone or kidnaps, tortures, whatever, whose fault is it really?

But please, again, let me say that was very much a bad way to write what I meant to write

My apologies

a reply to: KyoZero

No problem- we sometimes fail to communicate ourselves effectively. It happens.

I understand then, what you are saying, and see the validity in it. I don't have a response to the question of fault. Too often, I find that a relative judgement, impossible to determine in a real objective way.

I guess I just choose to ignore the concept of fault altogether, and try to look at what happens, how and why.
This leaves me (in this topic) thinking that whether or not it is enforced or outlined, we are each subject to the consequences of what we do or say, and need to be ready for those. (whether the potential consequences can be judged as rightious or not).

I am not Charlie. I personally, do not choose to pick out the most sensitive and sacred topics a person or peoples have, and press on that repeatedly. It might happen on accident (if I am not aware of there "sensitive spot") but if I am aware of it, I refrain from doing that. That is not hard for me to do, I do not feel a "need" to cause intense distress for others (probably on the contrary, I am very empathic with others, what they feel, I end up feeling, and I have, like any normal person, a repulsion to distress, pain and suffering).

I figure others should have the right to do so if they feel the need- I am for free speech in general. But with freedom comes responsibility. If you want to provoke conflict then you are left to deal with that conflict, and I do not particularly like having to deal with the consequences of others choices.

In this case, I guess the question can be stretched further, in terms of responsibility though. The masses which support the freedom of the press- are they giving their permission and commitment to the press, to accept the consequences and follow the direction it chooses?

If the popular press has decided that one group is good, the other bad; one to be respected, the other not, then are we obligated to restrict ourselves to that determination? Do we give our power away as individuals, to the media and press?

That is what this makes me ask, anyway. For suddenly, amidst the uproar for freedom of the press, people are not allowed to speak anything which opposes the current direction of that press, and are being arrested for doing so. If you speak up with any opposing opinion, then you are accused of being apologist for the enemy.
So the press can do what they want, and the people cannot.

a reply to: Expat888

speak out against israel get called anti-semite .. arrested.. jailed,, fined .. your life destroyed .. say something about another race they find offensive youre charged with a hate crime ..

Sorry but everything has its limits.
Free speech ends when it comes to jews because 6 million jews perished in the holocaust.