It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


The Talmud came from the Khazarian Empire?

page: 1
<<   2 >>

log in


posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:39 PM
The thought came to me the other day that the Religion of Judaism (Torra) and the religious following of the Talmud, are in fact, not, the same. Then I remember when the christian faith was taken to new lands and actually merged with the belief system of that new country, it dawned on me.

In Morocco there is a sect of "Jews" who do not practice the Talmud, or even accept it as part of Judaism. These "Jews" are not even allowed to enter Israel, or thought of as Jews by the Government of Israel. Why is that? This sect of Jews is one of the most ancient, and they do not use the Talmud....

Revelation 3:9 "King James Version: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

There is a great debate going on today about the reality and validity of Jesus. The Talmud goes to great lengths to discredit Jesus, mock, and disrespect his memory. Why? Does the Talmud teach morality that was unacceptable? Was Jesus, real or imagined, trying to say the Talmud, is the Synagog of Satan? But, the timelines are wrong. The Khazar empire did not come into existence until AD 100.

"The Khazars were a Pagan civilization, and in a short period in history ,became the largest and most powerful kingdom in Europe, and possibly the wealthiest also. They brought with them their religious worship that was a mix of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship practiced in Asia by other Pagan nations. This form of Pagan worship continued into the seventh century with vile forms of sexual excesses and lewdness indulged in by the Khazars as part of their religious beliefs. This form of worship produced to a large degree a moral degeneracy that the Khazarian King could no longer endure."

So, to me, Judaism (Torra), was actually polluted by the Talmudic mindset, from the above passage. Again, to me, it was this version of Judaism that evolved and set loose on the world. It was the Talmud that was banned country after country, year after year. As far as I know, the Torra, has never been banned.

Appolonius is said to have been the real Jesus, or the figure of Jesus, was patterned after the life works of Appolonius. But in the Talmud another person is named to be Jesus.

"Apollonius lived to be about a hundred years old, and no one knows where or how he died. In the early thirties AD, a Jehoshua Ben Pandira, the illegitimate son of a maid, Stada, and a Roman soldier Pandira, was executed in Jerusalem for reasons not clear to history. This Jehoshua is mentioned in the Jewish Talmud, and was regarded as the one who later became known as the Jesus the Nazarene. Since Apollonius was still alive and regarded by many as the anointed, then it's no wonder that in later times, references were made to Apollonius being alive after the "Nazarene" was killed. And so, this gave rise to the legends: "He is risen . . . "

There can be little doubt that great "Artistic License" has been taken in the past, and great care must be taken in order to unravel it..

At any rate, I find that the mindset of the Talmud, and the preexisting religious practices of Khazaria, prior to the adoption of Torra Judaism, quite similar.

I am open to discussion, correction, additions, deletions, and what ever else might come my way.....

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:57 PM
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Babylonian Talmud

Jerusalem Talmud

I favor the correlation between the Babylonian Exile and "MYSTERY BABYLON" with the "synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie" and the Babylonian Talmud.

A connection with the ancient Mystery Schools of the Fertile Crescent, Levant, and later, the Hellenized systems.

edit on 1/14/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:00 PM
I'm sorry that I do not have the previous scholarship to actively support or refute this posting but I wanted to make this my first post on ATS to tell you that this is very compelling research that you have compiled and I will be very curious to follow up on this as I can read more and decipher. I had never heard of Apollonious, so as you may imagine this is a lot to take in. Thank you S + F

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:03 PM
Some of the Talmud is the work of Shaytaan himself.

Can't say all of it is...

Only read some...

Mainly about Supremacy & Goyim...

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:05 PM
So Jews aren't from Israel? Well where the hell does my pastrami come from?

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:47 PM
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Undoubtedly the modern version of the dominant Jewish faith and it's branches draw's a lot of it's inspiration from outside Juda but remember that there were also great tribe's of jew's who lived in Arabia, some had become Christian with a Jewish Christian kingdom we now know nothing of and it is likey they too would have been different but the spirit of a religion is a hard thing to change, it can become more moderate over time or more severe and new prophetic figure's and teachers can add to it, the same is true of all modern religions and probably true of most ancient and now extinct religions.

The Pantera or as you call it Pandira and the Apollonius claim are highly unlikely to be the source of Christian faith and indeed are both revisionist history, one by a Jewish scholar who accepted that Jesus was real but drew his inspiration from somewhere else let's say, the Apollonius claim is also spurious and I can draw the same kind of parallels as it's adherant's to Osiris, Krishna and even Buddha but I do not believe there is any link to them either.

For me Jesus was real, I also have Some Yiddish ancestry but here is a point for the Khazarian adherent's to bear in mind.

The Beni Cohen Gene, this is passed down the male line were many if not all sect's of Judaism pass there religion and identity down the female line which is why if you fall in love with a beautiful jewish girl and she with you then usually you have to convert to Judaism usually, not always in the age of atheism but usually.

East Africa, the Ethiopian black Jew's have a very strong legacy of the Beni Cohen gene, there practices were in the old way of Judaism and very unlike there European cousin's but more like the original way's of the Jewish faith of the temple period's, the Ethiopian orthodox church was grown from the Jew's of Ethiopia who converted to Christianity very early and not under European influence, in Lake Tana at one of the sources of the Nile there is an old Jewish site that has the sacrificial alter's were sin offering lamb's would be sacrificed and there blood sprinkled onto the jewish congregation still standing but long overgrown in the ground's of a Ethiopian orthodox monastery, they Ethiopian Orthodox church believe they have the ark of the Covenant at Axum but only the high patriarch is allowed to see it and tend to it.

South Africa The Lemba tribe today almost all Christian maintain a legacy of belief that they are jewish and there Gene's show a very strong Beni Cohen influence and presence in there genetic's, the believe there ancestor's walked with a drum that drove there enemy's away, it may have been one of the drum's that would have accompanied the ark and been beaten by the temple priest's but it may also reference something that is now lost though it is likely they are descendant's of the same Ethiopian jew's.

A man by the name of Ron Wyatte who despite being critiscized after his death was genuinely a man of faith in Christianity claimed to have found the ark fo the covenant beneath the temple mount under a place were there is a skull like formation on the rock behind and he found and filmed three post holes that were deep square cut into the rock that he believed where for the mounting of crucifixion's.
Afterwards this site was bulldozed by Isreali authority's and the post hole's destroyed, The entrance to what he called the cave of Jeremiah was sealed with a Steel plate and concrete then back filled by the Israeli authority's after two Israeli investigator's apparently dropped dead when they tried to reach the site of the ark but a previous press release caused uproar and rioting on the temple mount among the palastinians in which several people were killed when it slipped out the Ark of the Covenant may have been found, this was because they saw it as a Jewish ploy to seize the mount back.
Here is more on Mr Wyatt's claim (I believe him but also recognize Faith is an issue and for the Ethiopian's they have the Ark etc).

The Khazarian empire existed for a brief period and it's boundaries are not really known too well but all the surrounding powers seem to have been intent on wiping it from history but it was not the only Jewish kingdom outside of Juda as I have just explained.
Islam destroyed the Jew's of the east by forced conversion and enslavement and rape of the woman of those Jewish Arabian tribe's who refused to convert as well as beheading there men and this is recorded in the muslim's own religions text.

Hatred breed's hatred and after the Jew's became a convenient scapegoat for the resurgent roman empire following the conversion of Constantine they were convenient to replace the Christians who were now too large a sect to persecute as well as now the state religion but when you read the bible replace the word "The Jew's" in the new testament with "The People" when it come's to the crucifixion and remember the Romans' were consummate propegandists and power politicians so why would Pontius Pilate be any different, get rid of a menace who was gathering ten's of thousands to his rabbinic Sermon's and preaching about a kingdom that was not Rome and was perhaps seen as a rebellion waiting to happen by having the Roman secret agent's who dressed as local's stir up the crowd and release a petty murderer who would likely be back in prison or knifed down a side street by dusk in order to make it look like the Roman's were not guilty of this popular figure's death.

All religious texts have been warped for the power mongering elite who used those religion's before the advent of modern brainwashing and advertisement media to control and influence the populace but that does not remove any inherent truth in them.

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:59 PM
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

I believe the OT, NT and Koran all agree with you, but I believe that the Talmud started with the exile in Babylon and was added to by the Khazars.

If you understand the message, they are literally twisting God's words to control the world. If you were to accept that God choose you to the rule the world and everyone who is not your blood brother is your slave, then you can understand the Talmud and Hadith.

The Hadith is a very similar doctrine. Both the Talmud and the Hadith teach extreme Zionism, which is where religious extremists come from. The Hadith has corrupted the message of Mohammed in the same way Babylonian Talmud corrupts the message of Moses.

edit on 14-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 10:13 PM

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Some of the Talmud is the work of Shaytaan himself.

I would have to agree with you, as much of the train of thought, to me anyways, is "just" outside of natural human nature.

Mutilation, and perversion, just because its claimed to be acceptable because a "book" says so, is insane.

Insanity.......! Is this the depravity the King of khazaria spoke of ??????
edit on 14-1-2015 by All Seeing Eye because: YouTube link

posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 10:29 PM
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

I think the history of this is probably very hard to navigate!

However I think you are spot on about the Khazarian history, I will be doing some more research on it.

Ever since finding this group, I have believed that Zionism was a manipulation of Judaism by some of the most evil people in history, I have also tenatively believe that they worshipped the Talmud. Where as people of the real Judaic faith follow the Torah.

I have a feeling you are on the right track!

Jews against Zionism!!

The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 11:49 AM
One of my favourite archaeologists, Simcha Jacobovici, has a couple shows and on one episode he mentioned the claimed "messiahs" before Jesus. As messiah means "anointed" (with oils), it could refer to anyone really. Oils were expensive and so only kings and important people could be anointed, as I understand it.
Anyways Simcha goes out of his way in many episodes to discredit anything pertaining to Jesus, he really has a grudge.

The Khazars i've studied mostly from references in my many viking books, and it seems as they were situated between the christian and muslim kingdoms, pressure was applied on them to convert from paganism. The legend was that the king sent for people from religions to persuade him of their holiness (sounds like the story of the khan in Marco Polo), and he would pick the best one. He was convinced of judaism.

But I think more likely it was the practicality, because the jews were respected by both christians and muslims at that time, it was sort of a brilliant political move more than anything.

At any rate the talmud was written much later than the torah, and by people under duress. It's a very nationalistic unification type of writing, meant to give hope and fervour to the people. It's a twisting of religious text for political reasons.

posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 12:42 PM
If you read any part of the Talmud and the Torah/Old Testament/Tanakh anyone can see that they are totally different writing styles and themes.

It is a wonder how they made the Talmud a part of the Torah by saying that these were the secret sayings that were kept in an oral tradition only to be introduced much later. I wonder what the Jew's reactions were at the time? In the synagogue (priest says): "I know you have been reading from this Torah for a long time, but we have an announcement to make - we have a new Torah. One that we have kept secret from you for a long time and passed down by oral tradition." It apparently went over somehow since it has been established.

A lot of this information is covered in a book I read: Judaism's Strange Gods by Michael Hoffman

While I felt a slight hint of religious fervor from him (I suppose from him being a Christian), he brought up a lot of interesting points like those which revealed the Talmudic attitude toward the Goyim and the Gentiles. (and interestingly, Gentiles are nothing more than the same peoples, segregated, by only their views.)

He felt a strong connection between the Talmud and the motivation of particular Secret Societies.

posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 02:55 PM

originally posted by: ShamanOfLedges
I'm sorry that I do not have the previous scholarship to actively support or refute this posting but I wanted to make this my first post on ATS to tell you that this is very compelling research that you have compiled and I will be very curious to follow up on this as I can read more and decipher. I had never heard of Apollonious, so as you may imagine this is a lot to take in. Thank you S + F

Thank you for your reply.

As we are all coming to grips with history that has been, withheld, hidden, covered up, or as the modern day intelligence agency's do, black out information, we find ourselves in a state of confusion, and sometimes even anger, at what has been denied us. I suspect the reason why the dark ages are dark, was to wipe away any memories of the Khazarian Empire.

I am always compelled to investigate the core root of ideas, trains of thought. Where did any train of thought get its genesis of thinking. And in that search I have found another train of thought that attempts to block that search. The study of DNA takes us back to the origins of the physical body of the human being, but not of its thinking, its philosophies. But, even if there is a force, power blocking our quest, our research, there is always a avenue they can never control.

Just like Kazaria, it appears there have been other "Dark Ages" in that information has been hidden, and in some cases out right destroyed. It brings to mind the old saying "And the truth, shall set you free". Free, from what? Simply free from ignorance, or something far, far deeper, going back further in time than one is allowed to imagine?

Appollonius is another individual in history that appears to have been blacked out, but for what reason? If one was to research his history, or parts that are now being allowed to see the light of day, one would see who he attributed his "Divine" abilities to, and that is not something Christianity would want to see go public.

As others have mentioned, the Talmud most likely had its core ideology from deeper in time, and hinged to a people who are long gone. I also see that the core mindset actually precedes the Biblical flood. But I also see much of the biblical stories come from that time as well. I suspect "Gods" Chosen were the target of that flood, war. So, if that were the case, the Talmud and its concept of god head, do not apply to the people of the earth today.

The very thought of choosing one group of people over another, to be anointed "Gods Chosen People", is not what I would consider a divine attribute, but maybe more in the lines of baby sitters, or game wardens to those who were unlucky enough to be considered human animals.

There is, of course, great debate concerning the flood, Appolonius, Jesus, Bible, Talmud, the god of the old testament, and any preexisting human culture before the flood (which by the way, Appolonius called the "Gods", and gave them reverence as though they still existed[ these are the same as the Greek and Roman gods]).

And yes, I do agree, it is a lot to take in. I relate history to the old Nursery Rhyme about Humpty Dumpty.

We are lead to believe Humpty Dumpty can not be put back together. Well, almost true, if it were about reassembling an Egg. But old Humpty Dumpty was in fact, a Cannon. All the pieces could very well be put back together, if, they are taken in the proper place in time, and context.

Never give up

posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 08:11 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

sacgamer25: "If you understand the message, they are literally twisting God's words to control the world."

Can you point out which verses in the Talmud led you to this conclusion?

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 03:44 AM
a reply to: nOraKat
I tend to take any writings about Jews by Christians or Muslims with a grain of salt, there's bound to be bias for or against. That said, I have a good documentary about Jewish accession to banking by a christian guy called The Money Masters, havent watched it in years but it got me reading into actual history books on the matter.

Apparently modern banking was first practiced by crusaders, who would take gold and assets from crusaders in europe, and give them a document allowing them to receive equal assets (minus a fee) in Jerusalem from connected bankers.

Banking was a way to power, collecting assets and exchanging for paper, and of course when the crusaders died the bank would collect their assets. Usury was also practiced, lending money for profit, which was considered blasphemous as jesus preached against usury. The established church copied the method, but only allowed jews to practice it, because christians were forbidden. Thus jews had a sort of favoured position in society, except that when kings needed money they could confiscate the wealth of 'court jews' at whim (as happened in britain before the expulsion). Double-edged sword of privilege/risk.

The Talmud really promotes the same idea of usury and taking advantage of non-jews, of the impoverished, of desperation. The same happens with secret societies. A sort of racist, wealthy cabal of like-minded power-players preying on the people.

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:38 AM
I'm always amazed how some people trying to find "new explanations" of what is talmud.

Take Encylopedia Brittanica or virtually any academic source and the things are clearly explained.

The making of the Talmuds: 3rd–6th century
The expounders of the Mishna were the amoraim (“interpreter”), and the two Talmuds—the Palestinian (or Jerusalem) and the Babylonian—consist of their explanations, discussions, and decisions. Both take the form of a running commentary on the Mishna.

The foundations for these two monumental works were begun by three disciples of Judah ha-Nasi: Joḥanan bar Nappaḥa, Rav (Abba Arika), and Samuel bar Abba, in their academies at Tiberias, in Palestine, and at Sura and Nehardea in Babylonia, respectively. Centres of learning where the Mishna was expounded existed also at Sepphoris, Caesarea, and Lydda in Palestine. In time new academies were established in Babylonia, the best known being those at Pumbedita, Mahoza and Naresh, founded by Judah bar Ezekiel, Rava, and Rav Pappa, respectively.

I don't know about Morrocan sect of "jews" that didn't accepted talmud , but there is a known history about such sects. Most recent survivors of this "karaites" lived in Crimea and also a small population in one of Lithuanian towns. Also it is known that Nazi Germany decided that those "karaites" are not jews.

Ethiopian jews didn't know about talmud and about any parts of tora added after around 3000 b.c.
Essentially ethiopian jews were some syncretic Judeo-christian sect with believes taken from both religions and some authentic believes concerning Ark of covenant for instance.

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 10:01 AM
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Yes I have read a lot of these works. They are quite hateful towards non Jews..... and people are fearful of the Koran, the Talmud was surprising nasty... and nothing akin to Jesus's teachings.. No wonder they hated him...
Where Jesus taught compassion and taught the parable of the good samaritan.
They invented ways to take advantage of and harm gentiles..There is so much more I will not get into as yet.

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 12:32 PM
a reply to: kitzik
I would guess you meant 3000 years ago? Judaism didnt exist 3000BC, barely by 1100BC even

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 02:58 PM
a reply to: Ridhya

I would guess you meant 3000 years ago? Judaism didnt exist 3000BC, barely by 1100BC even

Yes, 3000 years ago around 1000 b.c. , my fault.

According to Ethiopian jews lore, they started to practice Judaism from King Solomon son Menelik.
I don't take those legends to be historically correct, only as a lore. Also I see Moses tales as a lore, with a large dose of skepticism. What is not a lore, but a fact that Ethiopian jews were using paleo-hebrew script till our days. Paleo-hebrew script was almost extinct to the time when qumran scrolls were written. The only word written in paleo-hebrew in qumran was tetragrammaton.
The topic at hand is tora and talmud. I firmly believe that tora aka 5 books of hebrew scripture: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy were first codified as a whole only after "Babylonian exile". As for talmud it was written only after second temple fall. And for this period we have more reliable historical evidences.
edit on 16-1-2015 by kitzik because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 06:00 PM
a reply to: kitzik

I would say of the Ethiopian belief that it is likely correct or has a very large grain of sand, there were many periods after Solomon when Juda fell under the rule of king's who took up the worship of the Canaanite deities and rejected the God of Abraham, Isaac, Israel and Moses so many time's that persecuted faithful fled there homeland and of course the shared religion of the Sheban's would have made there kingdom a safe haven, it would also explain the presence of Jewish kingdoms in Arabia a short dow journey by sea from northern Ethiopia.

But of course anything to do with this period's history is explosive, remember the name Suliman which is common among the Arabs is actually of Hebraic origin and except converts to that religion who took the name the origin is actually of Judean Israelite origin and derived from the name Solomon among most Arab's who have the name.

edit on 16-1-2015 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 02:23 AM
a reply to: kitzik

No worries! I agree with you, I think the torah was written at the Babylonian exile, and that the lore of Moses was taken from King Sargon. The reed basket adoption story is too similar to ignore. I think the Hebrews discovered the power of mythology in politics.

As for the Ethiopians, most often lore is used to explain the way things are. I think you're right there too.

top topics

<<   2 >>

log in