London police: we believe claims of ‘VIP’ child sex abuse and murder

originally posted by: Starling

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Starling

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Starling

There is something very suspicious about the taking of Madeleine Mccann and the british government were all over it.

What I would like to know is who was nearby in secret was it a vip that is being protected? Although the parents are a doctor and surgeon, and all the money given to them hasn't resolved this issue I can't help wondering if they have been compromised in some way about this.

I must own that I have always wondered though whether as parents probably tired out with little ones and the pressures of work, if a dose of phenergon or whatever is the guaranteed good night's sleep for the little ones drink is now, whether a dose too much was not the cause and a dreadful accident occurred - I hagte seeing those parents, especially the mother looking so sad. Madeleines' little face on the tv still makes me sad for them as she looked such a little angel.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maddie was pimped out by her parents to the pervs in both the medical and political realm.
I do believe her death could have been a 'mistake' and then concealed by the heavily guilt ridden parents.

If that was the case those who abused her and caused her death were 'one of them', the party of friends that were dining out while neglecting their kids who were abandoned by adults in their hotel room...while the guys of the group took turns in abusing her while the rest of the group got sozzled on wine back at the restaurant.
I also have reason to believe that the kid inherited an alcohol driven condition from her seriously alky mother.
They probably knew, as doctors, that Maddie was 'beyond repair'. So they allowed her to be sacrificed...so to speak.

Do you realize that you're accusing specific individuals of horrific crimes? Are you aware that libel laws apply to the internet? If you have evidence, report it to the police.

Well you are a piece of work, aren't you...
What's your interest in all this?
Kate?

My interest is in finding out if there's a cabal of child abusers in the corridors of governmental power and, if so, seeing them receive swift and horrible justice. But I'm not about to accuse people, especially individuals, without hard evidence. Do you realize that you may have accused someone who is innocent? How would you like to lose a child and have someone accuse you of something that heinous? Think how gut-wrenching such an accusation would be to you. I also pointed out that such an accusation, if untrue, is potentially libelous. That's a fact. Do you really think it's OK to accuse someone of a heinous crime just because you "think" it might be the case?

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Tangerine

You may not realise it but this kind of attitude is the kind of attitude that leads victims to not come forward in the first place.

Do you see what you're doing? Now you're blaming me for heinous crimes against children going unpunished. Victims don't come forward because they're not taken seriously (or offenders are protected and there's a potential for retaliation) and this is largely possible because people who smell blood (I'm not talking about the victims) point the finger at people they don't like without regard for actual evidence. That makes it very convenient for those in a position to do something to not take the real cases seriously because they're inundated by hysterical accusations. Let the hard evidence lead to the perpetrators.

There's also the fact that very young children do have active imaginations and have difficulty separating reality from unreality. They're also easily led by the adults in their lives. As has been demonstrated on numerous occasions, the persons interviewing the children often get the answers they want because of the way they ask the questions. Then there's the matter of actual older victims not knowing exactly who committed crimes against them or having been ill-treated in other ways and realizing that accusations of sexual crimes are the ideal way to get revenge. None of this is to say that sexual abuse against children does not happen. It certainly does. But each case should be investigated on its own merits and neither lack of guilt nor guilt assumed without evidence.

The subtext swirling around on this bulletin board is Satanic ritual abuse which has been investigated by the FBI in the US and found to be completely lacking in merit. They couldn't find a single case in which organized Satanic ritual abuse/sacrifice occurred. There is something in the collective mindset of Western Society that causes this religious hysteria to surface now and then much like the witch trials of old. We know how that turned out for innocent people.

I'm calling for a rational approach to the subject of organized child molesting rings. They may exist. They may exist in corridors of power. Let's rely on actual evidence, not wild accusations smacking of religious hysteria, to find the perpetrators.

Explain to me how, if you disagree, you find this approach to not be rational.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: doggoneit666
I remember what was called the "Satanic Panic" of Satanic Ritual Abuse in the 80s and early 90s and how it was all dismissed as hysteria due to the supposed lack of evidence (see the McMartin case and how a mountain of evidence was covered up).

No, satanic ritual abuse (in the UK) was thrown out because it was not happening. There was no cover up. The court found no evidence that was not made up in the minds of people who wanted it to be true.

Regards

Thank you for your rational post and not jumping on the religious hysteria bandwagon.

it seems ever more certain that the 'ruling classes' are a bunch of degenerate perverts. grim stuff. and doubtless worse revelations will surface in time.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

I think the same thing and came to that conclusion a few months ago. When you really start to dig it gets scary because whomever or whatever it is can execute plans perfectly. Too perfect for any human hand, and it operates in such a fashion right under our noses masses of people have no idea. I'm not religious and personally think the theory of god is plausible but rediculious, however the evil that's capable of operating in the manner it does makes one wonder.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Tangerine

For some reason the formatting hasn't showed what you're quoting in your reply.

This is what you said:

any alleged occult rituals are incidental and not a cause of the criminal behavior.

My point was I disagree that any alleged occult rituals are incidental. Let me put it this way. As you suggested its true child rapist pedophiles exist at every level of society, but these cases are dealing particularly with establishment figures. What I'm saying is, even though we have a democracy, the heart of the british establishment is still Buckingham Palace, the Monarchy. And the monarchy is very ritualistic. So that's something to think about.

Exactly what type of occult rituals are performed by the monarchy? Are you alleging Satanic rituals? Evidence, please. Some other type of occult ritual? What type? Evidence, please.

a reply to: Flesh699

But ultimately they too are being watched. You can believe that.

They say the mystery is that it is light's play to let darkness believe itself the victor.

I'd offer you comparative religion and mystical traditions for more perspectives but it doesn't seem that palatable to you, yet if you look closely they'll talk about this very thing. I think Gnosticism is the most straightforward in this particular aspect. They call this force the (fallen) Demiurge.

The wickedness in the microcosm is mirrored in the macrocosm and vice versa, and before you know it the world itself will turn evil in a dark age such as this. But in the end, this too will pass.

It's hard for me to believe, that some of you doubt, that these groups of perverted people really exist. These groups are quit prevalent, the problem being that it is extremely difficult to infiltrate these groups and become a member. The things you have to do to be excepted by one of these groups, is outside of the realm, that a normal law enforcement officer could do, to be excepted into one of these groups. Baby eaters, for one.

If some one would do these things, most are so awful, that you would have to be one of these sickos, to do such things.

But for those of you, with you heads still in the sand, this problem is world wide, and prevalent within the rich and powerful.

The world is phony, for the most part, hate to say, but people are crap, they are stupid and live in some fairy tale world where all is good. Well it's not, these fools of today say how great we are and how the people of the past were so bad, so primitive, so stupid, but look what has changed, nothing, we have only become better killers and better lairs. The public has become more stupid, to believe the lies of the politicians, leaders. People are so stupid, they will believe anything, this one of our greatest, down falls, if you poop on the moon it will turn to gold. Transparency in the government, then they hide everything.

I love my baby back, baby back, ribs, with fava beans of course.

a reply to: Tangerine

Read again. I intentionally avoided saying "occult" ritual for a very particular reason. That is to get you to understand more deeply what the word ritual actually means.

By definition, even the most seemingly mundane things can be described as a ritual. Going to the shops, washing your hands before and after a meal. Meeting your friends at a pub after work every Friday etc. They are rituals.

Predatory behavior is very ritualistic. And the predatory behavior of pedophiles is obviously going to involve a lot of ritual. Finding vulnerable victims and abusing them is going to involve a lot of ritual. Meeting together and having pedophile parties: ritual. Filming the pedophile parties: ritual. Watching the films (maybe in groups on projector screens): ritual. Killing them victims: ritual. Making the victims they keep alive emotionally traumatized so they are unable to speak: ritual (possibly occult)... Grooming victims from a young age to become a certain way for to feed their perversion: ritual (possibly occult)... Making sure families are bullied into silence: ritual Intimidating police officers to drop investigations: ritual.

Whether or not the ritual these pedophiles use is occult or not, its doesn't matter, the kind of rituals they are in volved in by nature of what they do are so evil that it probably makes very little difference whether they use occult rituals or not.

As was stated earlier on in the thread whether or not occult means are used, all the rituals that take place at the top of society are all about power.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Tangerine

Read again. I intentionally avoided saying "occult" ritual for a very particular reason. That is to get you to understand more deeply what the word ritual actually means.

By definition, even the most seemingly mundane things can be described as a ritual. Going to the shops, washing your hands before and after a meal. Meeting your friends at a pub after work every Friday etc. They are rituals.

Predatory behavior is very ritualistic. And the predatory behavior of pedophiles is obviously going to involve a lot of ritual. Finding vulnerable victims and abusing them is going to involve a lot of ritual. Meeting together and having pedophile parties: ritual. Filming the pedophile parties: ritual. Watching the films (maybe in groups on projector screens): ritual. Killing them victims: ritual. Making the victims they keep alive emotionally traumatized so they are unable to speak: ritual (possibly occult)... Grooming victims from a young age to become a certain way for to feed their perversion: ritual (possibly occult)... Making sure families are bullied into silence: ritual Intimidating police officers to drop investigations: ritual.

As was stated earlier on in the thread whether or not occult means are used, all the rituals that take place at the top of society are all about power.

Thats just how the world is.

Perhaps you've forgotten that I pointed out that ritual can be very mundane. But you keep bringing up ritual as an important component. You seem to be all over the place on this issue and have now stated repeatedly that the rituals are "possibly occult". Earlier, you mentioned Satanic rituals. I'd ask you (again) exactly what you're alleging but I've concluded that you have no intention of being direct or consistent. So be it.

a reply to: Tangerine

Well, clearly you have no interest in this topic, and you just want to pick holes in what people say.
That''s very constructive of you... /sarcasm

a reply to: Tangerine

I didnt read every post you made, but this jumped out at me:

My interest is in finding out if there's a cabal of child abusers in the corridors of governmental power

(emphasis mine)

I find it very disappointing that the only thing that seems to interest you in this case is whether or not they exist in the "corridors of governmental power". Are you honestly so naiive that you believe that they would only exist in Westminster?

This is the top of the top of our political system. It gets no freaking higher than westminster! If they're there, and theyve been there for decades without being exposed, just think... how seriously morally corrupt are the people they surround themselves with.....


Its pure speculation at this stage, but the way the reports have come out imply the whole system would come crashing down if they went pursued a full scale criminal investigation... i have a lot of sympathy for the police right now, there must be a lot of # going on behind the scenes....

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: doggoneit666
I remember what was called the "Satanic Panic" of Satanic Ritual Abuse in the 80s and early 90s and how it was all dismissed as hysteria due to the supposed lack of evidence (see the McMartin case and how a mountain of evidence was covered up).

No, satanic ritual abuse (in the UK) was thrown out because it was not happening. There was no cover up. Thcourt found no evidence that was not made up in the minds of people who wanted it to be true.

Regards

Thank you for your rational post and not jumping on the religious hysteria bandwagon.

Yeah, that good ol' fashioned law and order we've grown so much to trust.. when the system is corrupt, lets rely on the system to investigate itself.

Nice faulty logic there mate. I cannot stand your posts on this forum. You honestly, HONESTLY believe that just because a court ruled something, it is case closed? Don't be so silly as to ever talk about it again?

TANGERINEDREAM is here to save the day and tell you what not to think about yet again. Thank's Gatekeeper.

British police officials are reportedly investigating allegations against six senior parliamentarians believed to have had links with up to five pedophile rings operating at the heart of Westminster.

British media reported on Sunday that, three lawmakers and three members of the House of Lords have been named in a dossier handed to Scotland Yard for inquiry.

The dossier, collected by British parliamentarian John Mann from the Labour party, is comprised of a total list of 22 high-ranking officials deemed “worthy of investigation,” the Sunday Times quoted Mann as saying.

PressTV banned for telling the truth

You don't become a top politician unless you attend sex parties and have gay/child sex so that TPTB have some blackmail material on you.

Names of 12 former ministers, several of whom “definitely child abusers,” were also included in the list, Mann said.

But let not forget that the police are also involved in the cover up and we need a reset across the board before we can even start to get to the bottom of this crime aginst children

a reply to: Pitou

It's still going on though, it didn't stop 30 years ago.

The police/media won't say that though.

Politicians are carefully selected so they can be controlled by their handlers. franklin sex ring and bush family etc.

Just breaking on Sky!

A Labour MP has claimed he has evidence of two murders which were related to allegations of a VIP paedophile ring in Westminster - one of which was previously unknown to police.

John Mann has passed on information about the alleged involvement of 22 people in historical child sex abuse - including three MPs and three peers - to Scotland Yard.

Although he has refused to name the politicians involved in the Westminster ring during the 1970s and 1980s, Mr Mann told Sky News that he expects arrests to follow imminently.

Source:
news.sky.com...

Im not optimistic but if there were arrests and proper justice to follow for these scum bags it would be the best xmas present ever... Fingers crossed!

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
But how can you say that? What are you basing this on? Personl experiences of those ritualistic practices? How do you know ritualistic behavior is not in any way connected to the protection of a perverse society of pedophile rapists and murderers?

I am basing the assertion that it is unlikely that these crimes are based in some sort of ritual practice, on the fact that the vast majority of cases featuring serial and wholesale abuse of children, have been committed in a fashion which resembled the practices of an organised criminal network, far more closely than it resembled the activities of some sort of cult or secret society.

It seems to me that the case being dealt with here has all the hallmarks of a professional criminal enterprise, rather than an ideologically driven effort as well. We do not appear to be dealing with a situation where the victims are all from one borough, but from many, and that means that in order for the abuses to be enacted, there would have to have been a network in place, money changing hands, middlemen, transporters, drivers, fixers and enforcers, not to mention lawyers, bankers and so on and so forth, who would be mostly involved in hiding property which may have been used in the commission of these offenses, and laundering payments to the middlemen from the people being "served" by the network in such a way as to prevent them being easily traced and identified.

You see, the fact that the people under suspicion here are establishment figures, makes it even less likely that the suspect parties will have been directly involved in the logistics of these things on their own, without involving functionaries, because they would be too recongisable to make moves on people directly, to shut people up without risking being recorded doing so. The sort of people we are talking about move pawns into play, they do not bother themselves with the logistics, and like to distance themselves from such matters, both as a matter of course, and for reasons of securing their anonymity when about nefarious business, as have most powerful figures in criminal history.

In principle maybe, but in this case? Why would they have said on so many occassions that they are not persuing investigations because of the damage it would cause the British establishment?

Well I would have thought that the fact that establishment figures were allegedly involved in this case, would seem to suggest that any investigation by the police might make it impossible for the people to accept the current status quo, such is the depth of the conspiracy, which might lead to public unrest and martial law being applied in what would surely be very highly charged and emotional circumstances. Please understand, I am not saying that there is no conspiracy here, there almost certainly is, and its a horrible cancerous doozy.

If we are talking about a few individuals here, like Jimmy Saville, the media would have been allowed to rip into them months ago and end their careers on the spot, but no, it is being dragged out for as long as because the corruption is obviously endemic and they want to buy toime to get rid of as much evidence as possible.

At the same time, do you not think that the more people are named in the statement made by "Nick", the more time it will take for the police to show their hand in terms of how far along with their case they are, by naming suspects and making arrests and so on? Do you understand that if the police want any arrests and prosecutions to stick, that they are going to have to backstop every single bit of evidence they have, that they are going to have to overwhelm the prosecuting team with hard proof before even tentative moves are made to apply the weight of the law to the guilty in this case? We are talking about people who have lawyers coming out of their damned ears here, good ones, expensive ones. These are not people to accuse without significant backing and all ones i's dotted, and t's crossed.

As for the media being allowed to rip into Jimmy Saville "months ago", he was named by the papers in 2012, and a series of investigative operations were launched by the police that year. Information about the scale of his crimes and how he was able to get away with it for so long, including some revelations about other people being involved in various capacities, began to come to light with a will during the later half of that year, and the year following. If you cannot track simple things like the amount of time for which a certain individuals actions have been considered criminally suspect, then why are you lambasting me for having an entirely sensible reason not to jump on the cult bandwagon, when there are clearly more pressing matters at hand, than whether chants were spoken during the abuse which is alleged?

Let me make something perfectly clear. Speculation on the occult nature or otherwise, of what happened, is of no consequence or importance what so ever. The important questions here are as follows:

1) How many establishment figures and powerful individuals are involved, and what are their names?
2) How long have offences been committed by this group of people?
3) How many people work for them now, or have in the past, and what are their names?
4) Who has taken bribes from the group in order to cover up their crimes?
5) Where are the bodies buried, literally?
6) How many victims are there?

Those are just the tippety top of the iceberg of data which will need to be collected and sorted through in order to get the answers that people are going to need in order to attain justice for the victims in any capacity what so ever, and waaaaaaaaay down the list when the people involved have been identified, when they have been rounded up and are being questioned, THAT will be the point at which questions ought to be asked about what particular control mechanism they used to keep members of the group and victims alike in line, was it occult, did it involve chanting and circle dancing, was there a buffet, and did they have to wear silly robes and masks.

When you also consider that child exploitation and abuse has been identified as a revenue stream for organised criminal gangs, one ought to realise that the possibility of ritual being involved in even the most rudimentary of ways, is much less likely than the possibility that a bunch of powerful scumbags who happened to have the same predatory nature, got together to make arranging for their shared itch to be scratched, much easier for them and more anonymous to boot.

You seem incapable of understanding that the ritual element to this case, is a) probably a massive red herring, and b) about as important to the facts of the case and indeed the acquisition of justice, as are a damp kipper and a fledgling goose!

Two words: Madeleine McCann