a question about mandatory tithing

I lived in Alabama for 9 years .. surrounded by fundamentalist christian churches.

One day my husband and I were at the local breakfast eatery and the table next to us had four of the local preachers, each from a different fundamentalist church. (Different Baptist ones). They were talking about 'the take' and how much was put in the offering each week and that week. And 'how well did you do'?? was heard a few times. It was all money money money.

I"ve been to lunches and dinners with priests and nuns, and with non-fundamentalist protestant ministers. Not a word about money came up.

Anyways ... just thought I'd add that for consideration.

Tithe means tenth.The Israelites gave a “tithe” of their “produce” (it varied with the produce) to the Levite priest it was never money (until they become completely corrupt) and ONLY to the Levites.The fact is there is NO place in the scriptures that say to “give” a tenth of your earning to a “church”…..it is one of the multitude of perversions of mans religion.

This should be plain as day because is easily discoverable in the scriptures.It isn't about the tithe being "done" away with because it never existed for that matter the whole foundation of the "church" is completely unfounded.

a reply to: proteus33

You would be better off giving 10% each month toward buying tents, food and clothing for homeless. I like to offer meals to homeless people when I can, then sit with them and talk over the meal. Some of the richest stories I have ever heard come from these encounters. Of course, you need to be careful when doing this. There are many homeless that are not drunks and drug abusers. Need is all around you if you simply look.

If you go with the intention of helping someone, you will find need. I travel to a nearby town with this intention quite often. Recently, I found a family on the road and out of gas. They needed food and a tank of fuel to get 100 more miles to family. Another day, I found a guy who simply needed a meal, then ended up going to Wal-mart for him and outfitting him with a tent, new clothes and several toiletry items. 10% of income goes a long way each month toward these types of needs, and there is none wasted on building expenses, pastor salaries or other expenses that serve only to entertain the congregation.

Try this one day. Take a day you are off work, then go through a drive-through and purchase a meal and soda. Drive to the nearest intersection near a major highway and Walmart. Before the meal can get cold, you will find someone without food or shelter. They are everywhere. Once you start to look, you notice. Then, simply ask if they need anything from Walmart. You never need to get out of your locked car. When I do this, I typically buy a backpack to put the items inside. I purchase beyond what they ask for and simply hand the backpack to them. Take all tags, packaging and receipts away so items cannot be returned.

Our local church budget is nearly 2 million ($167,000 a month). The Sunday morning service serves 800 people. Of those, about 50 go to Sunday night service and 15 to Wednesday night. They give a great deal of money to our local Christian college and to missions, but most is wasted on salaries, trips, expenses and building maintenance. Of this, they have a current goal of $50.000 to give to the Annie Armstrong fund. I do not tithe. Instead, I give outside the church walls where my income has the most impact.

A few months ago, I decided that the new year will see me out the doors of church. As of this last Sunday, I will no longer even go to church at all. Instead, I plan to volunteer at a local homeless shelter on Sunday mornings and afternoons when possible. Jesus came for the sick and not the well. It no longer makes sense for me to stay inside a building when the stone was rolled away 2000 years ago.

Since I am not sick, I choose to come out of the tomb and serve those who are. No need to wast money and time learning what I already know. Once you know, it's time to act on that knowledge. The 'least of these' are waiting for us all to find our calling. Need is in every corner of the world you choose to walk.

My suggestion is to volunteer your time on Sunday and become a living Sunday School lesson. This way, every dime goes to someone in need and you learn by doing.

Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

Church only provides you the means to hear and see. Doing requires your feet out the door.

a reply to: proteus33
Tithing is not a New Testament teaching. Giving to others as you have been blessed, and as "god leads" is. Do the sudy for yourself. Tithing is still in place for one reason. So the leaders of the churches can live a life of luxury from your ignorance.

a reply to: AlephBet
This is good teaching, whether one is Christian or not. Well done. That's my kind of giving.

Tithing was for the support of the Levitical Priesthood, who had no income. Their responsibilities were to the Temple. There are no more Levitical priests and no stone Temple to maintain, so there is no justification for tithing anymore. I honestly dont know how so many churches get away with collecting tithes.

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Fair enough... Lets not forget "give onto Caesar what is Caesar's"...

Though I would still say any church that demands money is fraudulent...

10% might be biblical... but even there it is not demanded

Jesus asked what image was on the coin, it was Caesers image, render to Ceaser what is Ceasres.
We are made in Gods image, God wants us, our hearts, not our money. Jesus was not talking about money, he was talking about people
But then you dont believe we were created in Gods image so it goes begging

HE wasn't talking about people...

He was talking about the soul of a person... All of which belong to him, because we all return to him..

IF he was talking about people... he wouldn't have used the analogy for the Pharisees that they are children of the devil...

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Passage please?

For future reference...

There are so many, this is just a few, there are many.

Gen 14:20
And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

2Co 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mar 12:41
Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

Mar 12:42
But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

Mar 12:43
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

Mar 12:44
They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Setting aside, for a moment, the fact that these quotes are from a storybook, none of them say to give money to a church. The Mark quotes simply point out that someone gave a lot, not that it was commanded by God.

It's nice you think it's a storybook, your belief has nothing at all to do with the OP. The Mark quotes are specifically giving to the temple and Jesus praised her for it. 2 Cor 9:7 is them giving to the Church as well.

If you truly believe it isn't a storybook, I suggest that you give away all your possessions to ensure that you get through the eye of the needle and into heaven.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: proteus33
i live in the south and most of the churches and most of the people i know all tell me that god expects me to gibe him ten percent of my paycheck after taxes as a tithe. i know that tithing or taxes was done in the early bible because one of the communities abraham ruled had lost their crops at least i think it was abrham and he not god ordered a ten percent taxe be established where the other communities could help out that neighbor. and only levitire s could xould collect it . i thought all of that whent ou with the new testament and jesus kicking the tac collectors out of his fathers house. where i live some churches even demamd to see your w2s every year to make sure you are paying your share?
and tes i know my grammar sucks sorry

Isn't the real question why anyone would be stupid enough to believe it?

Because it's the truth. I can verify this is common practice at least in my area. Why I don't belong to a church.

I'm not doubting that churches request W2 forms. I'm well aware that they'll use any means necessary to dupe the suckers er flock. I'm asking why anyone would be stupid enough to fall for it. It was, of course, a rhetorical question. They fall for it because they're stupid.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Fair enough... Lets not forget "give onto Caesar what is Caesar's"...

Though I would still say any church that demands money is fraudulent...

10% might be biblical... but even there it is not demanded

Jesus asked what image was on the coin, it was Caesers image, render to Ceaser what is Ceasres.
We are made in Gods image, God wants us, our hearts, not our money. Jesus was not talking about money, he was talking about people
But then you dont believe we were created in Gods image so it goes begging

HE wasn't talking about people...

He was talking about the soul of a person... All of which belong to him, because we all return to him..

IF he was talking about people... he wouldn't have used the analogy for the Pharisees that they are children of the devil...

I think even Pharisees find their way in the end. It is only a matter of time. Even if I can be annoyed at times both of myself and others in the end it works out. . If you cannot love what a being is now love the potential of what it will be one day.

Namaste

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Sure they did... Religion makes people elitist

Even though most won't admit it, every single religion or sect of a religion believes they have the correct version...

The fact is we all return home... Regardless of belief

I always get a kick out of the Christians who try to reason with you by saying "what if what we've been telling you is correct"... conveniently forgetting "forgiveness" and mercy is what Jesus preached...

When it comes down to it, every single person will believe in the end... It will be 100% undeniable

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: LittleByLittle

...

When it comes down to it, every single person will believe in the end... It will be 100% undeniable

That's your BELIEF. It's not a fact.

a reply to: Tangerine

Wanna bet?

I can't prove it right now... But when we get there you owe me a beer...

In time you will see, just as everyone else will... and you will be amazed

And you will remember that you've been there before

All the answers you seek are within, do not look outward, dogma is low knowledge and will only distract you from your spiritual growth. The tithe is there to make you question the validity of the church as you are already doing, you KNOW the answer to your question already, don't get caught up in the programming / brainwashing, listen to your heart, it will never fail you. Namaste.

100% belongs to God. Getting to use the other 90%, isn't such a bad deal. Do we always use that 90% in the best way, considering it's not really ours to begin with?

The faithful are required to support the material needs of The Church, according to their ability. Who else will?

Through almsgiving, a person receives far, far more than they ever give away. It is in giving that we recieve.

I wish I made more money, so I could give more away.

a reply to: proteus33

a reply to: proteus33

I live in Alabama and my hometown used to have the most churches per square mile anywhere in the US. None of them around here ever required anything like that. Thats odd.

Churches have bills to pay. The buildings and utilities aren't free you know. I guess they want to know who and how much they can depend on.

But yeah, anybody in a church asks me for proof of income, I'm outta there. Never heard of such thing, and doubtful this is a "mainstream" church. Er, actually sorta unbelievable.

I have been asked for "pledge' cards before, when they are thinking about building a new structure, or something. But that's a little different.

Looking around the internet, I found a site called Tithingdebate.com.
This is an offshoot of "Cultwatch", started because they see the modern push for tithing as one of the symptoms of cultish activity.
They talk about the growth of the phenomenon of "super-Apostles", who stress the importance of obedience to their own authority, and tithing is one of the demands which the "Apostles" tend to make.

P.S. Their page on SuperApostles