$15 Min Wage Case Study Rant

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Capitalism in work....

No1 reason companies outsource. No2 is skilled labor...we lack skilled labor that the world market requires.

Our minimum wage is for everyone, regardless of education and/or experience. It is the MINIMUM expectation of pay - even if you have zero schooling.

Taking a high school class can push ones expected earnings past 12 an hour. We shouldn't deprive those who worked hard for their 15 an hour by making it easy for everyone to make the same.

But I guess I live in a dreamland that expects people to try to be their best instead of relying on handouts.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: ChuckNasty

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: sirlancelot
If the minimum wage was to increase to 15 an hour, you'll see less burger joints. You'll see less 24 hour places. The likelihood of stores being open 7 days a week would also disappear.

Unless your able to explain why other countries don't suffer from these effects from paying there workers over $15 an hour, then you have no right to make these unfounded claims.

How many countries pay 15 USD (equivalent), or more, minimum wage? The number might surprise you.

You should re-read the part where I recommend one to pull-their-head-out.

The US is basically number one when it comes to wealth in everyway (average wage, wealthiest country, most billionaires ect....), yet when it comes to minimum wage they are 13th. How can anyone possibly justify that?

The United States of America, the undistributed number one country for freedom & wealth. But wait........ The lower class are forced to work on 3rd world wages. Obviously there's something wrong with how the wealth is being distributed.

Besides, maybe you should answer my question to your response.

How many countries (if more than one) pays a minimum wage of 15 or more.

a reply to: ChuckNasty

I suspect you already know full well that only one other country has a minimum wage of over $15, but why should that matter to any patriotic US citizen?

Guess the old Hollywood propaganda just rubbed off on me more than you. I personally just always assumed the US was the world leader when it came to things like minimum wage (not 12th) or the quality of life index (16th)

I’m simply trying to point out an obvious conspiracy that’s been perpetrated onto the people of the US by the wealthy elite. When they would have you believe that allowing citizens to be entitled to a liveable minium wage would have a negative effect on the economy when there is clear evidence that contradicts this claim.

I’m over it though, think I’ll opt out of this debate now and go entertain myself with some alien conspiracies. But before I do, I’ll just sum up with some interesting facts of this so-called country of “lazy freeloaders”, who are not only entitled to $17 an hour minimum wage, but also 2 weeks payed holiday and 10 days of payed sick leave a year. They can also not be fired without a legitimate reason and 3 written warnings.

lol, those hard-core conservatives must be foaming at the mouth right now in pure disgust.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Australia is the 53rd most populated country, yet has the 12th largest economy in the world. Seems like they punch above their weight to me, for a country of people that apparently just sit around waiting for handouts, lol.

Australia has the 5th largest GDP (nominal) per capita in the world, according to the international monetary fund, where as the US is 9th.

Though, when it comes to GDP (PPP) per capita, Australia is 14th, where as the US is 10th. But that’s hardly the economic meltdown that people have claimed a $15 an hour min wage would create though.

According to the Big Mac Index, the price of a big Mac in the US is $4.80, yet is only $4.81 in Australia. I can also assure you that the over $15 an hour minimum wage, more than compensates the highly inflated extra cost of 1 cent.

I can also assure you that Mcdonalds, KFC’s, burger kings, cafes and restaurants are everywhere in Australia (as I’m sure they are in the US) and there doing just fine. Only difference is you’re not made to feel obligated to tip here, that’s just some American custom you see on Hollywood movies.

So unless there’s some magical money tree over here that I’m not aware of, I think the evidence is more than clear and these claims of economic disasters from paying a $15 minium wage are completely unfounded. Only possible reason I can see why anyone would be against it, is just plain spite for unskilled workers.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: sirlancelot

When the minimum doubles, the people above will get a raise also. The people at the bottom will still be at the bottom.

Or they will be let go and the work will be added to the load of the ones who are kept.
Has there been any discussion of what will happen to the wages of people not on min wage? If they stay the same and everyday living costs go up alot of people will be screwed.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
So, just out of curiosity and because I love working though the numbers, how much is a large big Mac meal worth over there in the US, or a Whopper meal at Burger King (they call it Hungry Jacks over here)?

Because over here a Big Mac meal and a whopper meal will set you back about $9 to $10 (or $7.49 to $8.30 US) and a casual worker gets 20.50 (17.06 US) an hour or 18.70 (15.56 US) for a full-time worker.

So my question is, if fast food restaurants can still turn a good profit over here (unless of course there charging less than $3 for a large Big Mac meal in the US), who’s pocketing that extra earnings, when they only pay there employees $7.25 in the US?

Why should some fat cat CEO who probably doesn't even reside in that state and is just going to let the currency linger in his bank account get the extra earnings? Instead of giving the extra earnings to the employee, who’s then going to go and spend the currency straight away and help stimulate their local economy?

A Big Mac meal here in St. Louis is 5.99 plus tax. The problem is that volume is down because there are so many Mcdonalds so close to each other.
I worked at Mcd's all through high school (the 80's) and we always prepped big for lunch, and the number we always shot for was $1000 per hour in our store. And that would usually only last 2 hours. But, at the same store I worked at, now they never hit that 1000 mark at lunch (I know as the Manger is the as when I worked there in the 80's), they might it 6 or 700, might. Why? because there are now more Mcdonalds in the area (as well as more of other places). There are eight (8) Mcdonalds all within a few miles of each other, 3 of those are within a mile and a half of each other.

a reply to: coop039

thats a good point.
there is a lot of congestion in with these places.
there are a few areas by me that within 1 square mile there are 5 mcdonals, a couple bk's, a wendy's, a couple taco bells, a jummy johns, subway....
theyre all over

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
Most people are paying well over $1000/month just in rent, add in cost of utilities and food and you have a bill that can't be paid working 80 hours a week at the current minimum wage.

thats bull. maybe in a big city like new york but other than that most people do not pay that much.
where i live it is far from rural and i have never paid even close to that much.
totally wrong on that.

Average rent in St. Louis (city, not county) is $844. And most places in the city arent that nice, and crime is higher, along with poorer schools.
Im in St. Louis county and pay $800, and still not in a fabulous area (3 miles from Ferguson). Most of the houses in my area rent for 1000-1500 and apatments start around 700(one bedroom). You can find cheaper places further out, but then you just spend more in gas and time.

originally posted by: coop039

Average rent in St. Louis (city, not county) is $844. And most places in the city arent that nice, and crime is higher, along with poorer schools.
Im in St. Louis county and pay $800, and still not in a fabulous area (3 miles from Ferguson). Most of the houses in my area rent for 1000-1500 and apatments start around 700(one bedroom). You can find cheaper places further out, but then you just spend more in gas and time.

well you do what you have to do i guess. people relocate all the time.
i moved across the country.

i say to that i guess move a little further out and get a car thats good on gas...it can be done.

people travel for work all the time...
not all areas are like that.

im 20 minutes outside cleveland.
i have a 3 bedroom house in a good neighborhood. i pay $650
i guess the key is to live where you can afford to live.

you dont have to stay where you are.
other places. smaller places.
there are options

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: ChuckNasty

I suspect you already know full well that only one other country has a minimum wage of over $15, but why should that matter to any patriotic US citizen?

Guess the old Hollywood propaganda just rubbed off on me more than you. I personally just always assumed the US was the world leader when it came to things like minimum wage (not 12th) or the quality of life index (16th)

I’m simply trying to point out an obvious conspiracy that’s been perpetrated onto the people of the US by the wealthy elite. When they would have you believe that allowing citizens to be entitled to a liveable minium wage would have a negative effect on the economy when there is clear evidence that contradicts this claim.

I’m over it though, think I’ll opt out of this debate now and go entertain myself with some alien conspiracies. But before I do, I’ll just sum up with some interesting facts of this so-called country of “lazy freeloaders”, who are not only entitled to $17 an hour minimum wage, but also 2 weeks payed holiday and 10 days of payed sick leave a year. They can also not be fired without a legitimate reason and 3 written warnings.

lol, those hard-core conservatives must be foaming at the mouth right now in pure disgust.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Australia is the 53rd most populated country, yet has the 12th largest economy in the world. Seems like they punch above their weight to me, for a country of people that apparently just sit around waiting for handouts, lol.

Australia has the 5th largest GDP (nominal) per capita in the world, according to the international monetary fund, where as the US is 9th.

Though, when it comes to GDP (PPP) per capita, Australia is 14th, where as the US is 10th. But that’s hardly the economic meltdown that people have claimed a $15 an hour min wage would create though.

According to the Big Mac Index, the price of a big Mac in the US is $4.80, yet is only $4.81 in Australia. I can also assure you that the over $15 an hour minimum wage, more than compensates the highly inflated extra cost of 1 cent.

I can also assure you that Mcdonalds, KFC’s, burger kings, cafes and restaurants are everywhere in Australia (as I’m sure they are in the US) and there doing just fine. Only difference is you’re not made to feel obligated to tip here, that’s just some American custom you see on Hollywood movies.

So unless there’s some magical money tree over here that I’m not aware of, I think the evidence is more than clear and these claims of economic disasters from paying a $15 minium wage are completely unfounded. Only possible reason I can see why anyone would be against it, is just plain spite for unskilled workers.

Just out of curiousity, how much does a two bed room house rent for in a nice area with good schools?
How much is electricity? Sales tax?
How much of that 17 min is taxed?
Cause, after reading what you posted Im ready to immigrate to Australia. I dont make 17 an hour, nor do I have two weeks vacation. I also only get 3 paid sick days a year.

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: coop039

Average rent in St. Louis (city, not county) is $844. And most places in the city arent that nice, and crime is higher, along with poorer schools.
Im in St. Louis county and pay $800, and still not in a fabulous area (3 miles from Ferguson). Most of the houses in my area rent for 1000-1500 and apatments start around 700(one bedroom). You can find cheaper places further out, but then you just spend more in gas and time.

well you do what you have to do i guess. people relocate all the time.
i moved across the country.

i say to that i guess move a little further out and get a car thats good on gas...it can be done.

people travel for work all the time...
not all areas are like that.

im 20 minutes outside cleveland.
i have a 3 bedroom house in a good neighborhood. i pay $650
i guess the key is to live where you can afford to live.

you dont have to stay where you are.
other places. smaller places.
there are options

not always so cut and dry. My house is two bedrooms, about 800sqft. Im a single full time dad, so moving to another city without friend or family support would be tough. Plus the cost of child care. Right now since Im close to work I can take my kid to school and have an after school service pick him up. But I still have to get him by 6pm. That service cost me another 200 a month. If I was to far out, or had to use a service to take him and pick him up that cost would more than double.

originally posted by: coop039


not always so cut and dry. My house is two bedrooms, about 800sqft. Im a single full time dad, so moving to another city without friend or family support would be tough. Plus the cost of child care. Right now since Im close to work I can take my kid to school and have an after school service pick him up. But I still have to get him by 6pm. That service cost me another 200 a month. If I was to far out, or had to use a service to take him and pick him up that cost would more than double.

i get it man and i feel for people like you.
im not rolling in it and it took me a long time to get ahead.
all im saying is you dont have to live where you live and work where you work.

you can get other work and find another place to live. another house, another city, hell, another state.

there are options

i just got back from wal mart. the cashier started talking to us about her 4 cats.
she told us she just paid $800 for a maine coon

no sympathy for her financial problems

originally posted by: coop039

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: ChuckNasty

I suspect you already know full well that only one other country has a minimum wage of over $15, but why should that matter to any patriotic US citizen?

Guess the old Hollywood propaganda just rubbed off on me more than you. I personally just always assumed the US was the world leader when it came to things like minimum wage (not 12th) or the quality of life index (16th)

I’m simply trying to point out an obvious conspiracy that’s been perpetrated onto the people of the US by the wealthy elite. When they would have you believe that allowing citizens to be entitled to a liveable minium wage would have a negative effect on the economy when there is clear evidence that contradicts this claim.

I’m over it though, think I’ll opt out of this debate now and go entertain myself with some alien conspiracies. But before I do, I’ll just sum up with some interesting facts of this so-called country of “lazy freeloaders”, who are not only entitled to $17 an hour minimum wage, but also 2 weeks payed holiday and 10 days of payed sick leave a year. They can also not be fired without a legitimate reason and 3 written warnings.

lol, those hard-core conservatives must be foaming at the mouth right now in pure disgust.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Australia is the 53rd most populated country, yet has the 12th largest economy in the world. Seems like they punch above their weight to me, for a country of people that apparently just sit around waiting for handouts, lol.

Australia has the 5th largest GDP (nominal) per capita in the world, according to the international monetary fund, where as the US is 9th.

Though, when it comes to GDP (PPP) per capita, Australia is 14th, where as the US is 10th. But that’s hardly the economic meltdown that people have claimed a $15 an hour min wage would create though.

According to the Big Mac Index, the price of a big Mac in the US is $4.80, yet is only $4.81 in Australia. I can also assure you that the over $15 an hour minimum wage, more than compensates the highly inflated extra cost of 1 cent.

I can also assure you that Mcdonalds, KFC’s, burger kings, cafes and restaurants are everywhere in Australia (as I’m sure they are in the US) and there doing just fine. Only difference is you’re not made to feel obligated to tip here, that’s just some American custom you see on Hollywood movies.

So unless there’s some magical money tree over here that I’m not aware of, I think the evidence is more than clear and these claims of economic disasters from paying a $15 minium wage are completely unfounded. Only possible reason I can see why anyone would be against it, is just plain spite for unskilled workers.

Just out of curiousity, how much does a two bed room house rent for in a nice area with good schools?
How much is electricity? Sales tax?
How much of that 17 min is taxed?
Cause, after reading what you posted Im ready to immigrate to Australia. I dont make 17 an hour, nor do I have two weeks vacation. I also only get 3 paid sick days a year.

I have talked to people from Australia who are amazed at how far their money goes in America. Australia is incredibly expensive, and as far as spending power goes most things, after adjustment, cost about 30% more, and overall you will be looking at a 25% increase total. Rent will run you $1,300-$1,800 Australian Dollar or $1,000-$1,500 USD (outside city, inside the city) for a 1 bedroom apt.

If you desire to be a do nothing bum working minimum wage your whole life with no aspirations, it could be for you. Otherwise most middle class people will take a huge pay cut and quality of life adjustment.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

When it comes to rent, it really depends on the area or quality of the house (obviously). When I used to live in the (mid) inner eastern suburbs of Melbourne we were only paying $190 a week for a two bedroom unit ($643 US a month), which was very good. It was on a main road though, which is why it was so cheap.

Now I'm living in the center of a regional city of about 15,000 people and pay basically the exact same for an old 3 bedroom house. But you can buy brand new 3 bedroom houses where I am now for $250,000. Where as my brother brought a dumpy house in the suburb where I grew up in Melbourne and that cost him 550,000. Mind you that suburb has recently been named as one of the top 10 most desired suburbs to live in Melbourne, so it's really not that bad. If your happy not living in a upper class luxury home in one of the richest areas.

Groceries and basic food items really aren't that much more than what you find in the US, from the research I've done. I mean, I can go spending $40 dollars a week and eat just fine, won't live like a king, but you won't starve neither.

It's luxury items that will get ya though. We have a GST tax and most imports a taxed the living crap of. Just for an example, I brought myself a 750ml bottle of wild turkey the other day and it cost like $45 ($37 US), which is quite obviously just ridiculous. It'd probably cost less than $20 over there in the US.

Having said all that, I don't see much people over here that are lacking in a comfortable middle class lifestyle. They all seem to have there brand new two cars big screen plasma tv's and all the rest of the materialism crap people seem to need to make them feel significant.

Oh and it's not true either that you'll some how be doing good if you decide to just sit on your arse, you'll just be scraping buy. But unless your an alcoholic, drug or gambling addict, there really is no reason for a person to starve or turn to crime. That's kind of my point. Rather than the impression that I get from the US, where you would need to breed a bunch of white trash children just to get some assistance. Seems to me that a single male with no kids who has a hard time holding down a job due to mental illness (or whatever), would just be left to starve and would have no option but to go rob houses or sell drugs on the street, which is probably one of the reasons why the prison population is so bad over there...............Anyway.

a reply to: sirlancelot

Im not even going to read what anybody else has posted and tell you what you are mssing. The assumption that the full labor cost would be transferred onto the customer is where you go wrong. When the minimum wage is raised to $15/hr a company changed how it calculated its profit in a way. Companies like to have a margin where they make a percentage of whatever they spend. Let's say for example that theytry to make 50% of what they spend. That means that for every dollar they spend they want to pull in 1.50. IF you keep the same margin and increase the wages then yes the cost will be transferred, however economists agree that if everybody is paid more that the companies will do more business. This means that they could pull in more money with more sales and a lower margin. In order for this to work we would need to regulate how high the margins can be for a campany to insure that the margins stay low and we keep the dollar from being inflated.

If you are like I was and just barely make enough to survive you end up saving everything you can to make a better life for yourself. If you are like me now and make an excess then you spend your money on luxuries while still being able to save for the future. If we all got paid more we would spend more, and companies would still make a large profit becuase of the VOLUME they would be dealing in.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

When it comes to rent, it really depends on the area or quality of the house (obviously). When I used to live in the (mid) inner eastern suburbs of Melbourne we were only paying $190 a week for a two bedroom unit ($643 US a month), which was very good. It was on a main road though, which is why it was so cheap.

Now I'm living in the center of a regional city of about 15,000 people and pay basically the exact same for an old 3 bedroom house. But you can buy brand new 3 bedroom houses where I am now for $250,000. Where as my brother brought a dumpy house in the suburb where I grew up in Melbourne and that cost him 550,000. Mind you that suburb has recently been named as one of the top 10 most desired suburbs to live in Melbourne, so it's really not that bad. If your happy not living in a upper class luxury home in one of the richest areas.

That's about $815 a month. Some places will be lower, some higher, my comparison was like for like, and averages.

Groceries and basic food items really aren't that much more than what you find in the US, from the research I've done. I mean, I can go spending $40 dollars a week and eat just fine, won't live like a king, but you won't starve neither.

What is that much more to you? The difference is about 15%. Not huge, but it's one of the lowest changes, and if you saw one job for 100k and one for 115k you probably would not say the pay is the same.

It's luxury items that will get ya though. We have a GST tax and most imports a taxed the living crap of. Just for an example, I brought myself a 750ml bottle of wild turkey the other day and it cost like $45 ($37 US), which is quite obviously just ridiculous. It'd probably cost less than $20 over there in the US.

Depending on exactly which bottle $20 or a bit less maybe.

Having said all that, I don't see much people over here that are lacking in a comfortable middle class lifestyle. They all seem to have there brand new two cars big screen plasma tv's and all the rest of the materialism crap people seem to need to make them feel significant.

Oh and it's not true either that you'll some how be doing good if you decide to just sit on your arse, you'll just be scraping buy. But unless your an alcoholic, drug or gambling addict, there really is no reason for a person to starve or turn to crime. That's kind of my point. Rather than the impression that I get from the US, where you would need to breed a bunch of white trash children just to get some assistance. Seems to me that a single male with no kids who has a hard time holding down a job due to mental illness (or whatever), would just be left to starve and would have no option but to go rob houses or sell drugs on the street, which is probably one of the reasons why the prison population is so bad over there...............Anyway.

My point was not min. wage will be great there, but you are better off with min. wage in Aus than min. wage in the US. So if you intend on sitting on your ass Aus is better. If your goal in life is to be as much a bum as possible. If you intend on a decent middle class job, it's not. Overall purchasing power is about 20% lower, and wages are lower.

For instance nurse in Boston is 85k USD average, in Melbourne it's 67k USD. Now cost of living in Melbourne is 8% lower than Boston, bumping pay to 72k. So the nurse in Melbourne makes about 85% of the salary ... losing 13k USD every year. It's pretty huge.

The rest of your post about the situation in the US is inaccurate.

originally posted by: Divin3F3nrus
If you are like I was and just barely make enough to survive you end up saving everything you can to make a better life for yourself. If you are like me now and make an excess then you spend your money on luxuries while still being able to save for the future. If we all got paid more we would spend more, and companies would still make a large profit becuase of the VOLUME they would be dealing in.

Which would be offset by lower purchasing power of the middle class, so their dollar does not go as far, and they have to buy less.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I am middle class. I make a SMALL excess. This is about just barely making it now, and then after the increase being able to finally afford some comfort. Somebody who barely makes it saves what they can to improve their lives. Somebody who makes $100 extra a week will spend most of tht, adding it back into the economy.

originally posted by: Divin3F3nrus
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I am middle class. I make a SMALL excess. This is about just barely making it now, and then after the increase being able to finally afford some comfort. Somebody who barely makes it saves what they can to improve their lives. Somebody who makes $100 extra a week will spend most of tht, adding it back into the economy.

Unless you are minimum wage you will not have any excess, you will have LESS than you have now. For most middle class people that $100 extra to spend every week becomes $0 or -$100. It would hurt them, and you.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The rest of your post about the situation in the US is inaccurate.

Oh, I beg to differ, I've seen the wire, lol. Seriously though, I've heard many people talk on this forum and others about how just about every major US city has it’s own little version of the slums of Baltimore. Places where there’s extremely high crime and open drug markets everywhere. Then the jails are bursting at the seams, resulting in an overall lower quality of life for everybody. All so some middle class people get a few extra grand a year in median income.

My favorite musician in the world talks about how he had to work up to 60 hours a week just to put food on the table and still couldn't afford to buy his daughter Christmas presents. No one can accuse him of just being lazy or unmotivated, he battled he’s guts out in an industry he didn't belong in, just to try and get his family out of a poverty stricken life. Yeah, he’s worth 170 million now, but there’s millions of people out there who work just as hard as he did and still never make it, due to being crippled by minimum wage.

This songs to all the happy people
All the happy people, who have real nice lives
And have no idea what it’s like to be broke as…………..