Paul - Tribe of Benjamin, Friend to the Herodians and Proud Pharasees

Jacob (Israel - Father of the 12 Tribes) gives a blessing to each of His children in Genesis 49. The last blessing he gave was to Joseph (a type of Christ). Before you read the blessing and warning, note that Joseph was sold into slavery by the 12 brothers. Parallel to this, Christ was given over to pay the Genesis 9 blood penalty. Here is the penalty:

Genesis 9 (Words of Elohim Father, not Yahweh Son)

Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

These words were to Yahweh for two things. 1) His past shedding of Adam's blood to make Eve and forever divide mankind against itself by Yahweh's creation of the Snake (Satan), 2) His future shedding of blood as accuser of mankind and Lord and Adversary of man. He is the prince that rules with his divine council (of which, Satan is a part). Yahweh is Adonai, the same Adonai that hung on the cross at the hands of the Sadducee Pharisee. Paul was one of these Herodians. Why does this fit into the blessing of Joseph (type of Christ)?

Genesis 49

26 The blessings of your father are greater than
the blessings of the oldest mountains
and the riches of the ancient hills.
May these blessings rest on the head of Joseph,
on the crown of the prince among his brothers.

---Joseph is the one that receives the crown from both Pharaoh and Israel. While Pharaoh raised him, Israel was his true father. He was sold into slavery by the brothers, but blessed by the Father. By this, one slave subjugates his own family into slavery in Egypt. He plays both sides of the fence so to speak. By this slavery in Egypt, the family is refined and restored to their own homeland (promised land), of which, they first came. In other words, they were already there before being made slaves. Just like today, Israel has returned to find out who Joseph is (Jesus / Messiah). Jesus plays both sides of the equation. He rules both Rome and Israel. Yahweh did the same by ruling Israel as Yahweh and Babylon as Marduk. See this thread: Cyrus Calendar Seal.

Israel (Jacob) also had a warning for Jesus / Yahweh in his future incarnation:

Genesis 49:27 “Benjamin is a ravenous wolf.
In the morning he devours his prey.
In the evening he divides the plunder.”

Matthew 7:15 - "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Ezekiel 22:27 Your leaders are like wolves that tear their prey into pieces. They murder and destroy people to make excessive profits. 28 Your prophets cover up these things by seeing false visions and by prophesying lies. They say, “This is what Adonay Yahweh says.” Yet, Yahweh hasn’t spoken. 29 The common people oppress and rob others. They do wrong to humble people and to poor people. They oppress foreigners for no reason.

---Here we are warned in two places against those who prophesy lies. Paul was one who oppressed early Christians by likely killing them. He later professes to be a follower of Jesus.

Acts 23:6

Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees. I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."

---Even thought Jesus condemned the Pharisees, Paul, knowing his plight as a Roman citizen, proclaims his friendship to the world (Rome / Experts in the Law). Paul had the opportunity to repeat the words of Jesus against both Rome and the Pharisees, but he refuses to rise to the words of Jesus.

Mark 3:6

6 The Pharisees left, and with Herod’s followers they immediately plotted to kill Yeshua.

Mark 8:15

"Be careful," Jesus warned them. "Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod."

---Here, we see Jesus warning of those connected to the Herodians and to the Pharisees. Note the words of Paul in Romans:

Romans 16:11 Greet Herodion, who is Jewish by birth like me. Greet those Christians who belong to the family of Narcissus.

---Note Jesus words about the Pharisees:

Matthew 23:14

13 “How horrible it will be for you, experts in Moses’ Teachings and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. You don’t enter it yourselves, and you don’t permit others to enter when they try.[a]

15 “How horrible it will be for you, experts in Moses’ Teachings and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You cross land and sea to recruit a single follower, and when you do, you make that person twice as fit for hell as you are.

Words of Paul:

2 Corinthians 11:26

26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers;

In this thread, I have shown the possibility that a case against Paul might be made. What I would like to see in this thread are more artifacts as witnesses (either for Paul or against).

My own conclusion: I believe that the Bible is BOTH a document of good and a document of evil. From the knowledge of both, we can rightly divide. By knowing the error from the truth, we are set free. My own search has shown that Genesis 1 is true. Beyond this, the error deceives us all by dividing us into nations, then attempting to rule by many names, languages and philosophies. Our enemy is clever. If he can continue to divide us by counterfeit knowledge, he can continue to rule. By revealing the error, we set ourselves free from it. Love is the key. How can error reveal this? By showing us both sides. By this, we rise above and overcome what does not belong.

We love Him because He first loved us .While we were yet sinners ,He died for us ,and NO man can take us out of His Fathers hands .

a reply to: AlephBet

Paul is problematic. Some of the things he says I actually agree with, but I think his main focus was making sure that Christianity was incompatible with Judaism by leading it out onto its own. This could be because of his loyalty to the Jewish leadership or it could be because of his own desire to see Christianity bloom into its own religion. For whatever the reason, Paul seems to be a more major author of modern Christianity than Jesus himself ever was.

a reply to: Nechash
I am led to understand they were both schooled in the kabbala. both paul and Joshua ben Miriam.
2nd
f.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: AlephBet

Paul is problematic. Some of the things he says I actually agree with, but I think his main focus was making sure that Christianity was incompatible with Judaism by leading it out onto its own. This could be because of his loyalty to the Jewish leadership or it could be because of his own desire to see Christianity bloom into its own religion. For whatever the reason, Paul seems to be a more major author of modern Christianity than Jesus himself ever was.

One point I failed to draw a parallel to was that Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin. I noted the warning from Jesus, but missed adding the connection to Paul. The title of the thread includes the allusion, but I wanted to note it here as well. I am not sure if Paul realized his actions and words if they were in error. I think much of what he says is true, but we are unsure what his motivation was. Jesus seems to suggest we remain weary of the tribe of Benjamin, the Pharisees and Herodians. Paul was all of the above.

If you read Judges 19 to the end of the book, you see one of the reasons for our suspicion of this tribe.

a reply to: AlephBet

Jesus also said to Peter, "in the end of your life one will stretch out your hand and lead you to where you do not want to go." Modern experts claim this is talking about the way he was crucified by the Romans, but could this also have been the way he was lead astray by Paul?

The Bible also said that Dan is a serpent across your path. What is to be made of that? These short prophecies from the Torah are almost impossible to identify accurately. The Dannite serpent could have been Sampson as many people were lead astray by him thinking he would be a Messiah. Could the Dannite serpent be yet to come? Who are the Dannites today? Were these the enemies of Darius who fled westward out of Canaan? When might a serpent be raised up among them? I'd hate to speculate too much about these prophecies.

Interestingly enough, Paul is the reason that Muslims cleaved off from Christians. They accept all of the other Christian texts as inspired, but reject Paul as a false prophet.

Paul was a man, and wrote letters to the churches. I don't believe they were infallible. I believe a lot were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but he had not fully overcome, He ran his race well but I think the Law was still a struggle with all, except Jesus the Messiah and maybe John. a reply to: AlephBet

paul was a heretic.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: TzarChasm


Thanks for the bump...

I was unsure about Paul when I wrote that thread, but since then I have little doubt after further study...


a reply to: AlephBet

Let me get this straight...

You've been telling me for years Paul is all good... Now this?

Are you confirming exactly what I've been telling you all this time?

Paul obfuscates Jesus' simple message of love and forgiveness, he was an impostor working for Rome and its cronies in my opinion. Paul knew the truth but decided to hide it through long-winded speeches and proselytizing.

It's good to see you tackling the real issues and working toward truth. S&F

a reply to: Nechash

I explored the tribe of Dan thing at one time. I didn't come up with much apart from the flag that unites them across many nations. You might be right on their influence later. As for Muslims, most of the ones I have talked with claim all Jesus words are changed. They do not accept the message of love from what I can tell. Their actions are not too far outside of Christian actions through the years. Shedding blood of any kind is against the Father's will. The Son still seems to thing wars can be righteous.

Revelation 19:11

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

Matthew 10:34 “Don’t think that I came to bring peace to earth. I didn’t come to bring peace but conflict. 35 I came to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 A person’s enemies will be the members of his own family.

He's not a peacemaker according to this. His own words are "blessed are the peacemakers." In chapter 19 of Revelation, he makes war with the whore he created as Yahweh.

19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

There is a problem with making war with the beast and whore. Yahweh created the Snake in the first place. He knew the outcome and did nothing to prevent it. That war will mean the deaths of billions of people and untold misery for men, women and children across the nations. Less than a blessing of the rainbow, this is a curse known from the very beginning. Our whole way of life will be disrupted.

Every person on this earth lives a moment compared to what it took to develop our system of government and commerce. Satan has lived for at least 6000 years. Likely, none of this story is accurate to the actual truth it models for us. Adonai fights what he created and what he failed to manage properly. The bottom line seems to be that we suffer at the hands of unrighteous gods who do not reflect different emotions and actions than men. If Adonai of the OT is Adonai of the NT, then my statements are correct. If not, then the statements are still correct. Apart from truth in this story, we have no truth to follow. The Greeks of old are likely the remnants of this same story. 1000 years from now, Jesus will appear the same to the future citizens of Earth. Why? Love cannot come from hate. Love is the goal. The same tragedy of the gods then is the same one now it seems.

I hold out (as my hope) for the Father stepping in and stopping the nightmare created by the Son, who divided the original creation of Elohim and Ruach Elohim. If Ehohim is indeed righteous, then he will be the savior of us all. If not, this entire experience amounts to a chess game of unrighteous gods using a reality as a game board.

All the gods have had time to step in and tells us our origin, provide true education and produce peace. Instead, they have gone tit for tat against each other, making war with themselves at our expense. As a byproduct, we suffer in ignorance and bloodshed.

The body is a product of the head. We are not the head. In the end, the actions of the head determine the movement in the body. Nothing down here is holy. What does that say about our head? I'm not sure. How could we know apart from being educated about it?

As always, I invite God to come clear it up for us. Until then, we each speculate in a mess of poor communication, delusion and deceit. The head guides the body. We are not the head. God created an image, like a mirror, to look at himself. What does he see?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
paul was a heretic.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Could be, by why? I am after why you think this. I also want to hear from those who can defend Paul.

a reply to: Akragon

Actually, I told you that I would find the truth behind Jesus first, then Paul. I am following the clues. No conclusion as of yet. I want to explore this as I did with Jesus and Yahweh. Jesus, as it turns out, did not speak his own words. He was a conduit for Elohim (Father). As Adonai (both of the OT and NT), he was speaking on behalf of his Father and not himself. All of the OT came from the mouth of Yahweh. All of the NT gospel (four books) came from the Father. Most Christians would tell you the opposite.

Paul speaks on behalf of the Son. The book of Revelation is that of the Son's words, not the Father. Have you thought of it this way yet?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Paul obfuscates Jesus' simple message of love and forgiveness, he was an impostor working for Rome and its cronies in my opinion. Paul knew the truth but decided to hide it through long-winded speeches and proselytizing.

It's good to see you tackling the real issues and working toward truth. S&F

I am being careful to examine it all in context to itself. There is a blindness suffered by most people who learn the theology they are given, but ignore the scriptures it comes from. I take the other route. I ignore the theology in favor of learning the story the word tells. Theology is the deception. As it turns out, the word seems to be a hall of mirrors as well. The gods have always acted and communicated with us in a way that protects them. Babel is a good example. Apparently, they have trouble communicating with us and even with each other.

If we had to identify one likely candidate for this description of impossible communication, what would it be? Alien.

John 18

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Ephesians 6

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

From these two items, we can make a very easy conclusion. Our solar system is deceived by those in our galaxy. Less than being creators of the universe, they are deceivers of those on planets. They use us and pretend to be our creators. While they may have used the fruit of knowledge to form us, they are not the Father of the Letters themselves.

Earth and its nations are deceived. Clearly, Revelation says the truth. All that comes from Yahweh is deception and the snake he made ensures we remain in a state of delusion. The problem is this: What he has told us is true. It's just not true the way we wish it to be true. Our presuppositions are our own creation.

Paul is the least of our worries: Disclosure Happened 2000 Years Ago

Keep in mind, Paul claims to speak the words and gospel of the Son. The Son claims to speak the words and gospel of the Father. The Father and all we know about Him came from Yahweh, who claims to be the only God with none beside. The NT claims that there are three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and that all three are one. The NT also claims we are not fighting ourselves, but powers and principalities in dark places in heaven, where there is war currently.

What do we conclude? It's all deception from above. They influence us to fight each other. They keep us busy while they fight among themselves and work out their own issues. Again, Paul is the least of our worries here. He is comfort for those who fail to read the rest. At least we have clues from him on the topic he knew, even if he was deceived himself. Apparantly, we are all deceived by Angels who deliver messages for heavenly realms. The Bible did not lie that the messages come from the struggle of darkness above. It merely points it out so we can overcome. How? Divide the truth from the lie.

I have faith the story is accurate. That's my fear. Salvation from the mess will require its destruction. The Bible did not lie on this. No boasting in heaven when its all over. How can there be? Even God (whoever/whatever he/they is/are) will not be able to boast. It's all a mess from Aleph to Tav. If not, I welcome some clarity on the Babeled Word of God.

While we wait for clarity, we can speculate according to our own limited intellect. That's all we can do--Remain divided and ignorant. I will always maintain that I believe the story. It's the only way we can see that the gods above do not hold claim as our judges over our own will. They must rise to truth just like us. Until their will is to give and receive, they are simple thieves and robbers.

They reveal themselves by their fruit. More war will simply show us that this is true. A thief cannot hide from their debt. The same holds true for each human, including Paul.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: Akragon

Actually, I told you that I would find the truth behind Jesus first, then Paul. I am following the clues. No conclusion as of yet. I want to explore this as I did with Jesus and Yahweh. Jesus, as it turns out, did not speak his own words. He was a conduit for Elohim (Father). As Adonai (both of the OT and NT), he was speaking on behalf of his Father and not himself. All of the OT came from the mouth of Yahweh. All of the NT gospel (four books) came from the Father. Most Christians would tell you the opposite.

Paul speaks on behalf of the Son. The book of Revelation is that of the Son's words, not the Father. Have you thought of it this way yet?

Of course all of the NT came from the Father... Jesus said it over and over in the four books...

Nothing came from him, but the Father... HE did none of the work, but the Father within him did...

Though I still don't agree that Jesus had anything to do with the OT...

On that we will have to agree to disagree... same thing with Paul I guess...

Paul didn't speak for a man he never met... He made up his own doctrine... and founded Christianity on it

a reply to: Akragon

Paul didn't speak for a man he never met... He made up his own doctrine... and founded Christianity on it

As has all of theology that followed. I can see your concern for Paul and Yahweh. Unfortunately, there can be no knowledge of the Son apart from both the other two. The clues lead us to the Father at the end of the process. The only one left to find now is the Father and Mother. After discovering what I have found so far, I say it is all physics outlined in parable, allegory and metaphor. Father and Mother are the Strong nuclear force. Son is the weak, or electron. The strong force is invariant. Once all of creation is refined, a new order will be created from all three aspects of light.

It's one quantum computation running and working out all possible outcomes. The best outcome is then selected and the program ends, beginning once again. Infinity expands and rises to new life.

a reply to: AlephBet

These "gods" you speak of are fabrications from the minds of men, nothing more nothing less. They layer allegory and metaphor on top of truth then teach us that the allegory and metaphor are the literal truth while sweeping the deeper meaning within under the rug.

These OT stories that mirror real life phenomena? They are a reworking of the truth, not a part of God's lesson. They are tall-tales created within the minds of men in order to replace the underlying truth within the stories with metaphor and allegory.

You are seeing the common thread but you are missing its origins. You believe God wrote the book as a tool of refinement, it is actually a psychological war manifestó created by men in power.

Who are the ones who have benefited the most these last few thousand years? Those in power. Is it any wonder that war and destruction are a part of this "divine" plan?

Those in power have benefited greatly from the bible and the church set up around it. That's no coincidence in my opinion.

Paul's letters are the oldest writings about Jesus in the Bible (starting with Galatians and Thessalonians). If Paul was teaching something against what the early Christians believed in, then the early Christians would have rebuked him and not accepted his letters are scripture for The Early Church, but as we can see, the early church not only seen Paul's Letters as Truth about Jesus Christ, but made copies in order to make it their first early official Scripture for Christianity. The stories about the life of Jesus were written about a decade later by anonymous people who were later voted to be "Matthew", "Mark", "Luke", and "John". If you can't trust the writings of Paul, than why trust writings which came a decade later? What took them so long to write? The Gospel of John and Book of Revelation were written near the end of the first century. That is really late.

There are many parallels between Paul's original writings about Jesus and the stories about the life of Jesus which came later, for example:

Romans 12:14 written long ago:

"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not."

Luke 6:28 which came later:

"bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."

a reply to: arpgme

that's the thing with Paul...

From what I can see they did reject him, but Paul had influence over more people then the actual apostles did because he was a Pharisee... He was one of those who "give the law"... the elite

Im also working on a theory about John and his imprisonment on Patmos...

I have a feeling it was Paul who had him sent there specifically because John wrote things in his letters against Paul...

Just as the OT says, Paul was a wolf in sheeps clothing...

Pauls teaching was contradictory to Jesus... and the reason is very clear... Paul didn't know Jesus...

AND his conversion story on the road to Damascus was a lie

Paul was in fact the founder of Christianity... which is why more Christians favor Pauls words then the gospels...

His words are easier to follow then Jesus....

Jesus required work... Paul just required words

a reply to: arpgme

Gnostics rebuked Paul, their teachings are much closer to the truth than Paul's in my opinion.

Also, wouldn't the early church adopting Paul's letters be a red flag and not the other way around?

Rome hunted down and killed Gnostics then destroyed their teachings (luckily we still have the hidden Nag Hammadi library), Rome also supposedly hunted down and killed Paul yet they didn't destroy his teachings and then later adopted them. Seem fishy at all to you?

The "early church" did rebuke Paul, only they lost the war and were forgotten while Paul's teachings overshadowed theirs and his legacy has lived on.