Woman suing owner of dog that her dogs killed

a reply to: Tangerine

I agree 200million%, But it is also breeding to an extent. When I was younger and could handle the responsibility of raising them, I had Akitas, another maligned dog that has a bad rep due to ignorant humans and not the breed.


Lil

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: queenofswords

I didn't want anything to do with a Pitbull, until two years ago. I had the same mentality that you do, they were dangerous, unpredictable, and scary.

Two years ago I got a Pitbull puppy at a truck stop to put on the truck with us. I don't like dogs to begin with, and was nervous as hell about a Pitty beyond that. This dog is the most stubborn, bullheaded, smartest, most loving dog I've ever seen. He gets so excited when someone comes up to the truck and talks to him that he occasionally pees on the floor while standing up in the window to meet them. If we put a regular collar on him, and he sees a person in the parking lot, he'll choke himself to the point of unconsciousness and flop over twitching unless I let him go say hi to them.

When he sees other dogs, he tries to throw his weight around and usually ends up getting pushed around for his trouble. He's a giant goofball, who scares me with how intelligent he can be at times, and how well he understands what we tell him.

I was at a party once where a pitbull planted himself by a huge tub of iced beer and very enthusiastically kissed everyone who bent down to extract a bottle. I ended up having to get beer for everyone all night.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: queenofswords
We will have to agree to disagree, BH.

I know... I don't mind disagreeing, but I think getting the information out there is a good thing. I don't mind if you think that pitbulls are dangerous and unpredictable. I really have no dog in the fight, so to speak, as I've never had one and they don't appeal to me. My only interest is that I do have GSDs and they get the same kind of prejudice that pitbulls do, to a lesser degree.

Many people will identify a dog as a "pitbull" when they have no clue what it is. That just adds to their negative reputation. Many times when someone reports a pitbull attack, it's another breed altogether.

I agree. I had a wonderful German Shepherd who was friendly and well-mannered. People would get off the sidewalk when I walked him rather than pass close to him. There was a time many years ago when boxers were deemed the dangerous breed. Then dobermans. Then German Shepherds (because they were used as war dogs). Now it's pitbulls. Each cycle, inadequate people who wanted a tough, aggressive dog would choose that breed and abuse the dog to make it aggressive. Eventually, another breed will replace pitbulls as the breed of choice for violent sociopathic humans. Unfortunately, it's always the dogs who suffer the most. Banning a breed only means that the sociopaths will get a different, similar breed and abuse it and make it aggressive. The problem clearly lies with the people.

a reply to: Tangerine

My dog was six months old, didn't even have his adult teeth yet, and when I said he's was a Pitbull (he's solid black so people had a hard time telling what he is) they'd back away. I always wanted to ask them if they were seriously THAT terrified of a dog that wasn't even as long as my arm (he was the runt, and is always going to be tiny).

a reply to: Tangerine

Another thing that I think has a lot to do with it is some people are just afraid of BIG dogs in general

We had a yellow lab, sweet as they make them, but as you said people were leery going around us
His size I assume was intimidating to some



On a personal note, I myself have been attacked by a pit when I was a teenager working for a veterinarian [4 years]
Messed my leg up pretty good, a few days later he attacked another co-worker while in rabies observation, that is when they finally put him down

But to this day I don't carry any kind of grudge because I think it's an individual thing amongst K9's --breeding yes plays a large part of it but also how they are raised

Our friends have a pit that is huge and is around their 2 kids, one being autistic and yet the dog is gentle as can be, even around strangers

Pits do get a bad rap tho
And some cites as well as RV parks, do have an ordinances against them
One RV owner we talked to said it had to do with their insurance

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Tangerine

My dog was six months old, didn't even have his adult teeth yet, and when I said he's was a Pitbull (he's solid black so people had a hard time telling what he is) they'd back away. I always wanted to ask them if they were seriously THAT terrified of a dog that wasn't even as long as my arm (he was the runt, and is always going to be tiny).

Make up a different breed name. My boyfriend used to tell people that our pitbull was a Yontshire terrier. There's no such thing but it usually prevented an immediate negative reaction to him.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: queenofswords
We will have to agree to disagree, BH. This breed is a dangerous unpredictable breed, imo. I just had a conversation with a law enforcement friend about this issue, and he said that when they get a call about a dog attack, about 75% of the time, a pit bull is involved. I personally think that most people that insist on owning this breed are either thug-wanabes or gentle loving kind-hearted people that can't stand to see pits "discriminated" against and therefore adopt them to give them a loving home. That's good.

I don't know where you live but that suggests that almost everyone has a pitbull or the cop is ignorant.

How so? ??? You aren't making sense. Let me reiterate. About 75% of the calls pertaining to dog attacks involve a pit bull. Simple. If there are 100 calls in a month/year/whatever about a dog attacking someone, 75 of those will involve pit bulls. No ignorant cop here as far as I can calculate....but, otoh...????

a reply to: Tangerine

Yeah, I think from now on I'm going to call him some kind of Terrier. I feel so bad for him when people react that way. All he wants to do is be best buddies with everyone that walks. He's 1000% convinced that if you walk upright, your only reason for existing and being there, is to play with him and be best buddies.

a reply to: queenofswords

No, they involve Pitbull TYPES, which means they all get labeled as Pitbull attacks.

Look at this list. From 1883, there were 448 fatal attacks listed at Pitbull attacks. Notice that until the 1940s, there were Bulldogs and other breeds listed as "Pitbull Type dog". It wasn't until the 1940s or so that they actually started saying Fatal Pitbull Attack.

www.fatalpitbullattacks.com...

Even the CDC calls them Pitbull TYPE dogs.

www.cdc.gov...

Even on the Breed list, when they list specific breeds of dogs, despite saying "Purebred", they're Pitbull TYPE dogs.

There is no actual breed called Pitbull, so any dog that fits the description of the dog gets listed as a Pitbull, whether they are or not, which means that there are more Pitbull attacks than any other breed, because it's a catch all.

This book makes for an interesting read, and explains a lot of the problem with identifying a dog as a Pitbull, and how they're lumped into a category instead of actual data being broken down by breed.

nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com...

People tend to project certain personality traits onto their dog. It's natural to play this psychological game. But, dogs are not people. It reminds me of the weird lady that kept the chimp for years, even drinking wine with him and watching TV side by side with him. She said he wouldn't hurt a soul and was like a son to her. But, one night he did what animals are prone to do. He snapped and attacked her friend, a lady he was familiar with and had been around many times.

Imo, having pit bulls around small children or other less aggressive pets is foolhardy. But, that's just my opinion.

a reply to: queenofswords

Despite the fact that I know my dog, and I know that he's trying to play with people that come up to my truck, I LOVE the fact that some people are terrified of him. There is no concealed carry permit for truck drivers, so I get whatever I can come up with that I can legally carry on the truck for self defense.

A truck driver was recently shot in the head by a drunk that climbed onto his truck while he was in the sleeper, trying to steal his truck to get home. Dogs are about the only protection that we can keep on the truck that we don't have to dig for, or hide. Having people that may want to break into my truck see my dog grinning at them like an idiot, and decide quickly that they want to go somewhere else, makes me feel slightly better about my wife and I being on that truck with no protection.

I don't project onto my dog, I live within six feet of him 24/7, and know this dog as well as I know myself, and I know how to read him.

originally posted by: queenofswords
People tend to project certain personality traits onto their dog. It's natural to play this psychological game. But, dogs are not people. It reminds me of the weird lady that kept the chimp for years, even drinking wine with him and watching TV side by side with him. She said he wouldn't hurt a soul and was like a son to her. But, one night he did what animals are prone to do. He snapped and attacked her friend, a lady he was familiar with and had been around many times.

Imo, having pit bulls around small children or other less aggressive pets is foolhardy. But, that's just my opinion.

Why don't you find statistics for how many human sons attacked their mothers? Human animals are far more dangerous to other humans than are non-human animals of any type. Non-humans animals are not prone to attacking humans. (Note that I am not advocating keeping wild animals as pets. It's cruel to the wild animals.) Most non-human animals avoid humans for good reason. Why don't you look up the statistics on how many non-human animals have been abused or killed by humans? With the exception of mosquitoes and polar bears, I can't think of any species of non-human animals who seek out humans to inflict injury. Meanwhile, humans kill non-human animals for sport! Statistically, a human living with another human is at far greater risk of being attacked by the other human than a human living with a pitbull is at risk of being attacked by the pitbull.

People who work with multiple breeds of dogs all the time (veterinarians and groomers, for example) will tell you that the dogs most likely to bite are cocker spaniels, dachshunds, chihuahas, and small terriers not pitbulls. However, people who are bitten by one of those smaller breeds aren't nearly as likely to call the police as those bitten by larger breeds. It is true that larger breeds can inflict more damage. But it's also true that due to media manufactured pitbull hysteria any bite by a short-haired mix breed dog of undetermined origin and of reasonable size is labeled a pitbull bite.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: queenofswords
All dogs can bite, but when a pit bites, it won't let go till there is death.

That's just a stupid rumor. And I am not a pitbull owner. Nor would I be. I just know a lot about dogs.

They are unpredictable...

No more "unpredictable" than any other breed of dog. If you know anything about dogs, they're very predictable. Just because a person doesn't know the language doesn't mean the dog is unpredictable. It means the person doesn't know the language of dogs.

I have to agree with you on both of these. I also have never owned a pit bull but I have been around friends that have them and I have never had a problem with any of them. I wish I can say the same about my crits.

I had a Yellow Lab Chow Mix, she would lick anyone to death. Would not hurt a fly. One day mother was weeding in the garden and Charlie came out of nowhere and starting picking up something and throwing it down, repeatedly. My mother was paralyzed when she went over to see what she was doing, and saw she had killed a coral snake. It was a good 10 feet away from were my mother was weeding, but I guess it was a little too close for Charlie's comfort.

I tell this brief tale because the only time I ever saw Charlie vicious, and vicious is a mild word, is when she was protecting my mother or protecting her status. Charlie from the time she was just a wee pup, would never submit. Luna our neighbor's wolf hybrid (that is a whole other story), took to Charlie, and treated her like she was her mother. All went well until the day that Luna decided she was going to teach Charlie how to submit. That did not go well at all and nearly landed me with a huge vet bill. Luna was ten times the size of Charlie and only her motherly instinct stopped her from hurting Charlie, and getting hurt herself. It took Luna only two more cautious attempts at that submit business, when she decided to let that lesson go by the wayside. Only two other times did I sweat through near misses. Each time it was a much bigger dog trying to get Charlie to pay homage, and each time it went very badly, and each time it ended with a 30+ minute Mexican standoff, with Charlie with her teeth firmly implant in a neck or an ear, not letting go until she felt all the fight leave the other dog. Talk about a death grip.

It was awful. Every time the terror and the awful drama, the adrenaline pumping from all involved, me, the other owner, the other dogs, the two combatants. I would not wish this on my worst enemy, and every time it happened after, I had warned the other owner that Charlie is a sweetheart, but she gets along better with male dogs than female dogs. Some owners think they know their dogs better than they do. My dogs taught me a very important lesson. The only time I am pretty sure about what my dogs are going to do, is when I am home alone with my dogs. I never know what someone else is going to do, or what their animal is going to do, so all bets are off about what my dog is going to do. I keep my animals away from strange people and strange animals. This still doesn't mean nothing will go wrong. You know how many times I have people that come to my house and open the door to my pet's room, because they want to play with my dogs. They don't think it is fair that they have to be closed up when they come to visit. Luckily, I have never had an unfortunate event, and they really are good lads and lassies but I don't like putting anyone at risk. It just isn't worth it.

originally posted by: Tangerine
According to every veterinarian I've ever known (and I've known many), dogs are omnivores and need food other than meat to be healthy. Wild canines consume vegetation (often in the stomach of kills) but also directly in addition to meat.

It's a nit-picky scientific (geek) thing and the lines are sometimes blurred between carnivore and omnivore, but... Bear with me.

1. The intestines are "animal matter", not plants. Omnivore means they eat actual plants (vegetation).

2. The meaning of the word "carnivore" isn't limited to something that eats meat only. It's a scientific classification based on the animal's teeth and digestive system. In fact, the Panda (like other bears) is classified as a carnivore, even though today (thanks to evolution), it only eats bamboo. But it's the only animal whose teeth have changed to accommodate its vegetarian diet.

3. Veterinarians (although I love mine and have a great deal of respect for his medical knowledge) aren't specialists in nutrition. They're still pushing Iams, which is full of grains, that most dogs have a very hard time digesting.

Carnivore:
Any meat-eating animal, but especially any member of the order Carnivora, consisting of 12 families of primarily predatory mammals: Canidae (e.g., dogs), Ursidae (bears), Procyonidae (raccoons), Mustelidae (weasels), Mephitidae (skunks), Viverridae (civets), Herpestidae (mongooses), Hyaenidae (hyenas), Felidae (cats), Otariidae and Phocidae (seals), and Odobenidae (the walrus). Though most carnivores eat only meat, some rely heavily on vegetation (e.g., the panda).
...
Onmivore:
Animal that eats both plant and animal matter. Most omnivorous species do not have highly specialized food-processing structures or food-gathering behaviour. Many animals generally considered carnivores are actually omnivorous; for example, the red fox eats fruits and berries as well as mammals and birds.

I have done tons of research on this because I wanted to feed my dogs "primal raw" and wanted to make sure they were getting adequate nutrition. Feeding dogs other animals (and I mean the total animal, including bones, organs and intestines) is the most complete diet for them. And it's the diet of a carnivore. They don't need plants or grains.

In the end, many people think of dogs as omnivores and that's OK with me, but their scientific classification is carnivore.

This is why we need a Pet Forum!

.

originally posted by: Tangerine


I once had a rescued pitbull and a 20 lb terrier mix. The 20 lb terrier mix used to lie in the center of the bed and the pitbull would walk up to the bed, reach out and kiss her. She, the 20 lb terrier, would respond by jumping on his head and biting him. The 70 lb pitbull's response was to walk around the room shaking his head and making an "ooooh" sound as if to say, "Ooooh, I don't know why she did that. Oooooh, poor me." A friend had a 10 lb dog and my pitbull used to play tug of war with him and let the little dog believe it was an even match.

My Charlie ( a Yellow Lab Chow mix rescue) would do that also, especially when Nia (my second Rhodesian Ridgeback rescue) was a puppy. She was smart enough to know that if she didn't let the smaller or weaker dog win, they would stop playing.

All of my animals are rescue animals, even my turtle. I Have a Ridgeless Ridgeback (too often people's first guess is that he is a pit bull, shows you how much some people know about dog breeds. To be fair, most people don't know what a Rhodesian Ridgeback is anyway. I saved two less than perfect specimens because the breeder couldn't afford to feed a puppy that wasn't going to bring a return on her investment. One is a beautiful classic Ridgeback with an impressive pedigree, but she had a dermoid cyst, so she had to be put down. I couldn't let that happen, so she became another member of my pack of misfits.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: queenofswords

Despite the fact that I know my dog, and I know that he's trying to play with people that come up to my truck, I LOVE the fact that some people are terrified of him. There is no concealed carry permit for truck drivers, so I get whatever I can come up with that I can legally carry on the truck for self defense.

A truck driver was recently shot in the head by a drunk that climbed onto his truck while he was in the sleeper, trying to steal his truck to get home. Dogs are about the only protection that we can keep on the truck that we don't have to dig for, or hide. Having people that may want to break into my truck see my dog grinning at them like an idiot, and decide quickly that they want to go somewhere else, makes me feel slightly better about my wife and I being on that truck with no protection.

I don't project onto my dog, I live within six feet of him 24/7, and know this dog as well as I know myself, and I know how to read him.

I think things are a little different when you have a dog that is a part of your team and your protector. It is a completely different kind of relationship.

I live a bit out and away from the masses which is nice but it presents its own set of problems. My Ridgeless Ridgie is often mistaken as a pit bull and he puts on a very good show when anyone comes on the property. The UPS/Fedex and mailman, just leave my packages at the gate, they claim it is because they don't want to be eaten. The truth of the matter is, they are safe unless my Mom or I am home, which is when they usually come to the house. My dogs make a lot of noise but even my little 8 year old nephew can handle them with just a soft, "be quiet". That is if, we aren't there. If we are home or in their presence, they take on a whole different behavior pattern, and they know when to go into active protect mode without either of us having to say a word.

It is sort of a mutual relationship that kinda requires trust from both animal and owner, and they are much smarter than we are. They understand everything I say and I am still learning much of their sign language.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Tangerine
According to every veterinarian I've ever known (and I've known many), dogs are omnivores and need food other than meat to be healthy. Wild canines consume vegetation (often in the stomach of kills) but also directly in addition to meat.

It's a nit-picky scientific (geek) thing and the lines are sometimes blurred between carnivore and omnivore, but... Bear with me.

1. The intestines are "animal matter", not plants. Omnivore means they eat actual plants (vegetation).

2. The meaning of the word "carnivore" isn't limited to something that eats meat only. It's a scientific classification based on the animal's teeth and digestive system. In fact, the Panda (like other bears) is classified as a carnivore, even though today (thanks to evolution), it only eats bamboo. But it's the only animal whose teeth have changed to accommodate its vegetarian diet.

3. Veterinarians (although I love mine and have a great deal of respect for his medical knowledge) aren't specialists in nutrition. They're still pushing Iams, which is full of grains, that most dogs have a very hard time digesting.

Carnivore:
Any meat-eating animal, but especially any member of the order Carnivora, consisting of 12 families of primarily predatory mammals: Canidae (e.g., dogs), Ursidae (bears), Procyonidae (raccoons), Mustelidae (weasels), Mephitidae (skunks), Viverridae (civets), Herpestidae (mongooses), Hyaenidae (hyenas), Felidae (cats), Otariidae and Phocidae (seals), and Odobenidae (the walrus). Though most carnivores eat only meat, some rely heavily on vegetation (e.g., the panda).
...
Onmivore:
Animal that eats both plant and animal matter. Most omnivorous species do not have highly specialized food-processing structures or food-gathering behaviour. Many animals generally considered carnivores are actually omnivorous; for example, the red fox eats fruits and berries as well as mammals and birds.

I have done tons of research on this because I wanted to feed my dogs "primal raw" and wanted to make sure they were getting adequate nutrition. Feeding dogs other animals (and I mean the total animal, including bones, organs and intestines) is the most complete diet for them. And it's the diet of a carnivore. They don't need plants or grains.

In the end, many people think of dogs as omnivores and that's OK with me, but their scientific classification is carnivore.

This is why we need a Pet Forum!

.

I accept your explanation. I was referring to undigested vegetation in the stomachs of animals killed by wild canines. I agree about many Vets pushing Iams despite the fact that it's corn-based. Bad, bad, bad.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Tangerine

My dog was six months old, didn't even have his adult teeth yet, and when I said he's was a Pitbull (he's solid black so people had a hard time telling what he is) they'd back away. I always wanted to ask them if they were seriously THAT terrified of a dog that wasn't even as long as my arm (he was the runt, and is always going to be tiny).

Make up a different breed name. My boyfriend used to tell people that our pitbull was a Yontshire terrier. There's no such thing but it usually prevented an immediate negative reaction to him.

Mhm. What's funny is if you use the actual name for a Pitbull "American Staffordshire Terrier," people don't cry danger. Because they don't know they are the same as "Pitbulls." It's how when I was younger we were able to get our pitbulls into a town that didn't allow Pitbulls. That shows just how ignorant some people are. It's one thing to be scared of something for a reason, and for you to be educated on that reason.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

The AmStaff is considered to be a pitbull, but so is the APBT ( American Pit Bull Terrier). They used to be the same, but the bloodlines are now separate. That's why people say pit bull "type". They're generally talking about these two breeds or any dog that looks like them.

Here's an article about it. Source

There is no breed with the name “Pit Bull.” When that term is used, it’s usually referring to either American Staffordshire Terriers or American Pit Bull Terriers, and sometimes to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, a British breed. It’s also a label given to any dog who resembles those breeds, even if that dog is a Lab mix and has little or no “pit bull” in his background.

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: queenofswords
We will have to agree to disagree, BH. This breed is a dangerous unpredictable breed, imo. I just had a conversation with a law enforcement friend about this issue, and he said that when they get a call about a dog attack, about 75% of the time, a pit bull is involved. I personally think that most people that insist on owning this breed are either thug-wanabes or gentle loving kind-hearted people that can't stand to see pits "discriminated" against and therefore adopt them to give them a loving home. That's good.

I don't know where you live but that suggests that almost everyone has a pitbull or the cop is ignorant.

How so? ??? You aren't making sense. Let me reiterate. About 75% of the calls pertaining to dog attacks involve a pit bull. Simple. If there are 100 calls in a month/year/whatever about a dog attacking someone, 75 of those will involve pit bulls. No ignorant cop here as far as I can calculate....but, otoh...????

According to dogsbite.org between 2005 and 2013, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of attacks that resulted in death. Pitbulls and Rottweilers. What do these dogs have in common? Both are used as fighting and bait dogs.
According to LiveScience.com, the majority of dog bite fatalities are in these breeds:
-Pitbulls.
-Rottweilers.
-German Shepherds.
-Huskies.
-Wolf Hybrids.
-Malamutes.
-Dobermans.
-ChowChows.
-Saint Bernards.
-Great Danes.

Do you hold all of those breeds to the same standards? They are equally as dangerous as the others and have fatally bitten someone. You want to know what all of those dogs have in common? They are protective by instinct. And BIG DOGS.
I mean... A Great Dane is bigger than most women. Big dogs are more dangerous than little ones. The same as a big person being more dangerous than a small person. More weight, more muscle. Pitbulls, rottweilers, German shepherds, Huskies and wolf hybrids all have the same 'lock jaw' that some people have talked about here. Do you hold them to the same standards? Honestly, I don't think anyone can talk and be taken seriously about a breed until they own one, or have spent time around them. Not just zoned in on these incidents. I say this because often times, no one reports the victims play in the incident. A lot of times they are kids. Kids who play and don't know the signs of a dog 'saying' "get away from me." Kids tease animals, too. An untrained dog will growl, and bark, and probably try to bite. That's where ownership comes into play. A dog depends on the owner, like a child depends on a parent. A bad owner will equal a bad dog. My suggestion? Spend time at a pitbull rescue and see the difference between trained and untrained.