What is a feminist, what is feminism, and what is a 'feminazi'? Do you know what they are?

a reply to: cuckooold

No offense, but...
Those words mean nothing to me...

I do not use them, and I do not classify anyone that I know by them.


I believe that society is made up of men and women and both are integral parts of a healthy society.

Both have unique qualities inherent to them, and talents that come more naturally to them as well...
There is a broad spectrum for both men and women that accounts for these traits..
Both men and women can lean toward nurturing each other in many different ways including mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally, etc..

I am a male and happen to respect my female partner far more than anyone else on this planet.

I love and respect her for all the ways she both compliments me and opposes me..

What else is there?

Why feminism?
Why masculinism?

a reply to: defuntion

Because the world is determined not to accept equality of all human beings. Until they do we need to fight for the rights of various groups which are not quite there yet.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: nenothtu

Not leaving you hanging. Maybe someone else can jump in.

High functioning spectrum 6 year old. I'm exhausted at the moment.

No problem - that's usually the assumption I make when you go quiet for a bit. Life doesn't stop spinning just because of the internet, and we have to set priorities and take care of business.

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: Annee

I'm sorry - I obviously missed something in the exchange.

What action ARE you advocating, then, and why were you bringing the legal system into it? You know - the whole "women didn't have any legal protection" argument.

How about equal pay for equal work? This has been put up to vote in congress and rejected three times iirc.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: defuntion

Because the world is determined not to accept equality of all human beings. Until they do we need to fight for the rights of various groups which are not quite there yet.

"The world" doesn't care, either way. It doesn't care about you, it doesn't care about me, it doesn't care about women, or men, or even horseshoe crabs or snail darters. "The world" just doesn't care - it keeps on spinning, and whatever happens, happens.

I think what you mean is "society", and if that's the case (if I'm right that's what you mean) it's a gross over-generalization. There is no one "society", there are may, and they are all different, one from another. Society around here is doing just fine and getting along splendidly through cooperation rather than conflict. A certain amount of conflict is good and healthy, a bit more can get destructive. We've found the balance that works for us.

Other societies are different - some are happy, some are not. Some of them conform to your standards of a "society", and are doing fine, others are in internal conflict. Other societies AREN'T in conformation to your ideals, yet they are still fairly happy and functional - what they have works for THEM. Yet others don't conform to your ideals, and are in internal conflict.

The thing is, not everyone has to conform to your ideals, or mine, to be happy. It's not for us, you or I, to interfere and make them "happy" by destroying them. They have to find their own balance, what works for THEM.

The world doesn't care either way, and some societies are imploding from internal conflict, eating themselves alive because someone, somewhere, thinks their way is the "best", and needs to enforce that on everyone else. America in general is a good example of that. Part of America will still be doing OK when other parts are smoking ruins, torn apart by it's own internal conflict, however.

When you say "the world", it leads me to think that perhaps you think "the world" ought to be remade in your image, forced to conform to your standards.

That's a very dangerous way to think.

originally posted by: tavi45

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: Annee

I'm sorry - I obviously missed something in the exchange.

What action ARE you advocating, then, and why were you bringing the legal system into it? You know - the whole "women didn't have any legal protection" argument.

How about equal pay for equal work? This has been put up to vote in congress and rejected three times iirc.

Passed in 1963, under Kennedy.

That's nearly 52 years of having it your way, making "The Law" work for you. How's it going so far?

Next.

originally posted by: tavi45
How about equal pay for equal work? This has been put up to vote in congress and rejected three times iirc.

Holy crap. You have to be joking. I'm honest... you HAVE TO BE pretending.

If you have ANY HINT you are being paid unequally based on your gender... you will have a SWARM of lawyers ready to help you because they know they will have an open and shut case that they will get major payday on.

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: nenothtu

SHHHH!

You'll ruin my reputation!

Besides - there's a live one on the hook!

Giggle ... and shhh don't tell Tangerine I'm not a "He" It might blow his/her stereotype of me as a sexist troglodyte

I won't - wasn't going to mention it at all. I thought the avatar should have been a big clue, but so many people miss so many details...

I don't recall making any assumptions about your gender. Besides, there are quite a few self-loathing women.

originally posted by: defuntion
a reply to: cuckooold

No offense, but...
Those words mean nothing to me...

I do not use them, and I do not classify anyone that I know by them.


I believe that society is made up of men and women and both are integral parts of a healthy society.

Both have unique qualities inherent to them, and talents that come more naturally to them as well...
There is a broad spectrum for both men and women that accounts for these traits..
Both men and women can lean toward nurturing each other in many different ways including mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally, etc..

I am a male and happen to respect my female partner far more than anyone else on this planet.

I love and respect her for all the ways she both compliments me and opposes me..

What else is there?

Why feminism?
Why masculinism?

Why the belief that women should be equal? Why not? It's amazing that you have to ask.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Tangerine

Maybe you think a diamond ring is more valuable. It's subjective I suppose. Laugh all you want, but women have lost their sense of virtue. Is wanton sex really that worth it that we have to go out and give ourselves away like that? I don't think so. I guess that's just me.
Women in the 1800's were often accompanied by female guardians to protect their chastity. So while you are laughing at such a notion, chastity in previous centuries was considered valuable. (by the way, the white wedding dress is a Victorian era symbol of purity)
There is a metaphysical component to this as well. It has to do with the kundalini force, and is the reason why Sadhus in India do not engage in sexual activity. When I was in India, I was told that women should keep a distance away while the high level Brahmin priests were having their meeting(during the Mahakumbhmela in Allahabad) because they had not been in close contact with women for many years.
I'm sure that's a foreign concept to you, but you are the worldly one here.

But now that I think of it, perhaps a deeper implication of the women's movement is that it has not done what it set out to do, and that is to eliminate the objectification of women as sex objects(or at least as Betty Friedan portrayed it when she complained that women have to wear makeup to be attractive to men. )

Apparently, you are unaware that, historically, this "virtue" was directly related to the property rights of men. Having sex with someone who didn't "own" you (ie. your husband), was giving away his property and was a serious offense against him. It had and has zero to do with the intrinsic value of women and everything to do with male entitlement and property rights. In fact, marriage law has always been and remains property law. Until very recently in the West and still in some parts of the world, the woman, her goods, and her eventual offspring became the property of her husband. The transfer of property was between two men: her father and her husband.

It's interesting that you consider sex, an activity that is presumably pleasurable, to be giving yourself away. Are you really nothing but an activity? Is your vagina your self-identity? What exactly have you given away except some of your time? I mean, he doesn't get to keep anything does he?

Note that your example about Brahmin priests in India has to do with men. In your example, the women have no intrinsic value like the male priests.

The women's movement has accomplished a great deal. It's interesting that you chose to select the topic of makeup to trivialize an important social movement. Perhaps the reason that the women's movement hasn't been 100% successful is because there's been no movement that has successfully socially advanced men in the same proportion.

a reply to: Tangerine

Here is provided a masterful example of completely missing the point of what's being said.
Let go of the arbitrary labels oh vitriolic one.
And try hard to understand what actually he said.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: defuntion

Because the world is determined not to accept equality of all human beings. Until they do we need to fight for the rights of various groups which are not quite there yet.

Well, bless your heart, but we women in the US are "there" in the workforce today. We've been "there" for many years now, all my working life. I have always negotiated my pay, not based on what someone else was making but what my labor was worth.
I knew when I left the medical field that my next job would be a major step-down in pay. Being a laborer on a field crew isn't in the same tax bracket as supervising a pharmacy or managing a retail business. But I knew that with time I could work my way to that supervisory position where I would be upping my income because I made myself more valuable to my employer. I already had the supervisory and organizational skills, I just needed to demonstrate them to my employer. I did and both I and my employer reaped the benefits.
I've always found that if you speak eye to eye to a prospective employer you can generally reason with them on the issue of pay. If they can't be reasoned with on that issue---well, I always figured working for such a person wouldn't be my cup of tea anyway.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

No I didn't even slightly, I said it wasn't ok, because you did want to work, but that you have the choice. And you may not see your own husband as a loser but that doesn't mean you represent the feelings of society towards men who don't work.

My main point was, that was twenty years ago, in my whole life I've never heard of a woman in my age group complain of being discriminated against in anyway, quite the opposite, they love the privilege that comes with being a woman. I have however, known many men who have been almost destroyed by the system that gives women all the power when it comes to children. It may be that my friends have just been unlucky, but it seems as though it's the norm for women to use children as a weapon, because the system gives them the tools to do so.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I have however, known many men who have been almost destroyed by the system that gives women all the power when it comes to children. It may be that my friends have just been unlucky, but it seems as though it's the norm for women to use children as a weapon, because the system gives them the tools to do so.

Yes.
This is exactly the problem.
Not just on that front, but almost across the board.
I supposedly have "privilege" what privilege exactly?
Trust me, I'm not whining or anything but it's a fact that some think that shoving the short end of the stick up their "oppressor's" butt is equality.
This is something I have learned personally.


But if you talk about that, even if you're completely fine with and supportive of equality.
Well, anyone can see the labels automatically slapped on.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: nenothtu

SHHHH!

You'll ruin my reputation!

Besides - there's a live one on the hook!

Giggle ... and shhh don't tell Tangerine I'm not a "He" It might blow his/her stereotype of me as a sexist troglodyte

I won't - wasn't going to mention it at all. I thought the avatar should have been a big clue, but so many people miss so many details...

I don't recall making any assumptions about your gender. Besides, there are quite a few self-loathing women.

Are they in the same club as the Self-Hating Jews (tm)?

originally posted by: Tangerine

Apparently, you are unaware that, historically, this "virtue" was directly related to the property rights of men.

"Historically" demons and witches caused illness. I think we passed some laws, and thankfully that's not a problem any more. I'm just waiting for someone to pass laws against bacteria now.

"Historically", man could not fly. I forget which congress it was, but they passed some new laws of physics to make that happen, so that we can now.

"Historically" is called that because it's not right to call it "current reality".

It's interesting that you consider sex, an activity that is presumably pleasurable, to be giving yourself away. Are you really nothing but an activity? Is your vagina your self-identity? What exactly have you given away except some of your time? I mean, he doesn't get to keep anything does he?

Careful there - you're rolling down a slippery slope. That same argument could be used to justify rape - "it's no big deal - he didn't get to keep anything, and it was only a little time wasted".

The women's movement has accomplished a great deal. It's interesting that you chose to select the topic of makeup to trivialize an important social movement.

As I recall, it was Betty Friedan that made that choice of focus..

Perhaps the reason that the women's movement hasn't been 100% successful is because there's been no movement that has successfully socially advanced men in the same proportion.

Oh sure! Blame any failures on the guys because they've got the testicles!

"If it has tires or testicles..."

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Dear god virginity is womans most priceless possession, how to reduce a woman's worth to nothing more than a vagina.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I don't think you read my original post correctly, my daughter was born in 2008. So that would make it 6 years ago that I was subject to sexual discrimination at work.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Why the belief that women should be equal? Why not? It's amazing that you have to ask.

It is amazing that you read my post and didn't comprehend it..
Nowhere in there do I question that women should be equal.

It seems you have an agenda of some sort though, so don't let me get in your way. Carry on....

Why the belief that women should be equal? Why not? It's amazing that you have to ask.

It's not actually genders being equal.

It's equal rights. Equal opportunity, equal pay for equal work, etc.