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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Logarock
It's not "an idea," it's a fact. The Republicans worked with the Democrats to draft the bill, and then bailed on it and opposed it "100 %" when it included one of the biggest features that Republicans had been proposing for decades, the individual mandate.
Do you deny that?
Do you deny that the Senate Finance Committee with both Dems and Reps drafted the legislation that was merged with the product from the House?
I don't have to "sell" the idea of Republican hypocrisy; it's obvious.
Do you deny that the Heritage Foundation put forth the idea of the individual mandate as opposed to single payer plans (so as not to "give anything away"?
Do you deny that every Republican sponsored healthcare plan from the 90s to the present included an individual mandate?
Do you deny that the plan known as Romneycare established in Massachusetts by Governor Romney which included the individual mandate was endorsed by Republicans up to and during the debates on PPACA?
If you do, you're either ignorant of the facts, or misrepresenting them.
Do you need the links and citations again?
originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: AlienView
I'd say the government is working precisely
as designed...
Kev
originally posted by: Logarock
Republicans are not bound by a dam thing the closet dem rhinos did in the past.
originally posted by: Logarock
originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Logarock
It's not "an idea," it's a fact. The Republicans worked with the Democrats to draft the bill, and then bailed on it and opposed it "100 %" when it included one of the biggest features that Republicans had been proposing for decades, the individual mandate.
Do you deny that?
Do you deny that the Senate Finance Committee with both Dems and Reps drafted the legislation that was merged with the product from the House?
I don't have to "sell" the idea of Republican hypocrisy; it's obvious.
Do you deny that the Heritage Foundation put forth the idea of the individual mandate as opposed to single payer plans (so as not to "give anything away"?
Do you deny that every Republican sponsored healthcare plan from the 90s to the present included an individual mandate?
Do you deny that the plan known as Romneycare established in Massachusetts by Governor Romney which included the individual mandate was endorsed by Republicans up to and during the debates on PPACA?
If you do, you're either ignorant of the facts, or misrepresenting them.
Do you need the links and citations again?
Again all I am saying is the whatever working together there was ended at some point. Romney or any other republican would be drummed out. It was never a national platform plank. Only the rhino republicans messed with this.
You are misrepresenting by obfuscation.
Republicans are not bound by a dam thing the closet dem rhinos did in the past. This is Obamas baby. Obama Care. get it?
originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: AgentShillington
How can you say its the party with zero yes votes in the house? We didn't here any republicans promising that you could keep your old plan or old Dr or that we could read the bill later.
This thing isn't going anywhere but right back to the door of the White House.
Lets Talk Gruber/Obama
originally posted by: AgentShillington
originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: AgentShillington
How can you say its the party with zero yes votes in the house? We didn't here any republicans promising that you could keep your old plan or old Dr or that we could read the bill later.
This thing isn't going anywhere but right back to the door of the White House.
Lets Talk Gruber/Obama
Dude, I am -not- about to distill the worth of a party to a single vote. Neither should you. That is stupid.
originally posted by: Logarock
Well I will do it on this one issue. The Dems ran this through and now they want to reach back and drag the republicans into it.....now that its no longer the product of the democratic supper Utopia. Nope. They were only concerned about using the republicans as a shield now that they are getting the hell beat out of them.
as Romney said in a debate in Las Vegas last October, “we got the idea of an individual mandate…from [Newt Gingrich], and [Newt] got it from the Heritage Foundation.” Politically, it’s an important point, because Romney is inaccurately being portrayed as some kind of left-wing outlier, when in fact there were some major conservative institutions (like Heritage) and figures (like Gingrich) who supported the mandate.
in 1989, Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation proposed a plan he called “Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans.” Stuart’s plan included a provision to “mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance,” which he framed explicitly as a way to address the “free rider” problem and employer mandates (emphasis added)
In 1991, Mark Pauly and others developed a proposal for George H.W. Bush that also included an individual mandate.
In 1992 and 1993, some Republicans in Congress, seeking an alternative to Hillarycare, used these ideas as a foundation for their own health-reform proposals. One such bill, the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993, or HEART, was introduced in the Senate by John Chafee (R., R.I.) and co-sponsored by 19 other Senate Republicans, including Christopher Bond, Bob Dole, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Richard Lugar, Alan Simpson, and Arlen Specter. Given that there were 43 Republicans in the Senate of the 103rd Congress, these 20 comprised nearly half of the Republican Senate Caucus at that time. The HEART Act proposed health insurance vouchers for low-income individuals, along with an individual mandate.
originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: AgentShillington
Well and yes it still remains to be seen what the republican are going to do about it anyway. Maybe in the end they will simply get in there and rearrange it a bit but leave it at that. Good cop bad cop stuff.
originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Gryphon66
Well why do you think the Tea Party invaded? Why your better conservative voices have been criticizing these guys for years? the AHCA isn't the answer anyway.
originally posted by: Logarock
He then explained how the progressives planed to run as democrats and over a much shorter period of time come to power by taking over the democratic party. Now 20 years later this is what we have, the new democrats.
This was never more obvious as it was than when they finally got ahold of congress and the oval office and crammed through their AFCA without any consideration to what the minority republican party thought about it or contributions to it. Why? Its in the word democrat. They rule by democracy and with contempt for the mechanics of a republic.