To the ufo "true believers": Why is your bar set so low?

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse

originally posted by: duaneology
a reply to: DeadSeraph

It's my belief that there are many who post on UFO related forums who are not sincere. Their goal seems to be to devalue the discussion to the point where nothing can be taken seriously because everything gets buried under a mountain of nonsense.

really don't mean to sound like a jerk...but can someone show me the parts that CAN be taken seriously?

This type of response is indicative of someone who is being intellectually lazy. If you cannot see any validity in the hundreds of first hand accounts from credible sources, many backed by radar anomalies and multiple witnesses then what can I say that could possibly encourage you to open your eyes.

There are very solid, well documented cases out there. Often corroborated by photographic or video evidence. I've spent a great deal of time sifting through the nonsense to explore these credible incidents. I'm not going to do your research for you. I'm not interested in selling anyone anything. I'm perfectly happy being all alone with my conclusions drawn from the evidence. Just as you appear to be perfectly happy shrugging your shoulders and saying "meh" while remaining willfully ignorant.

No offense...I don't mean to sound like a jerk either

a reply to: DeadSeraph

For me, unless the evidence is comically obvious rubbish, I usually give benefit of doubt to balance out the overly dismissive comments posted by the career debunkers, of which there is an overabundance here. I'm sort of a "rebunker" in that regard.

Also, knowing the vastness of the universe, ET visitation seems highly logical and probable to me. It just does. Some of you pogues think that we Earth humans are the end all be all pinnacle of intelligence possible and so if we can't travel to another star system, nothing ever could. That is of course total nonsense. We're a bunch of apes barely out of the jungle.

Anyway, that's my take on your question.

Why is it that some assume the object in question is an alien space craft before exhausting all other possibilities?

Why do you feel people are somehow obligated to do this? Because you personally think aliens are so unlikely to visit here that no matter what we see it just HAS to have some mundane earthbound explanation?

Incidentally I find it hilarious that you admit a belief in some creator superman watching us all from the clouds so as to exact his vengeance on us when we die, all while belittling people for considering that we may occasionally get visitors from other planets.

Double post

a reply to: DeadSeraph

But I don't think every single ghost video on youtube is authentic.

THIS. Nothing makes my skin crawl more than seeing videos of dust in a basement and people claiming it's orbs and demons haha.

I try to think critically and not let confirmation bias get the best of me everytime someone posts a video or a picture of something that is supposedly fantastic.

In a perfect world this is the approach everyone would take but no, ufo nuts want to take every little grainy clip to somehow match up with their own already pre-assumed conclusions.
At the same time, it would be nice if skeptics could approach the more higher quality unusual "evidence" without automatically shooting it down due to "swamp gas" and "weather balloons".

There are some things out there that can't be explained and that's okay.

originally posted by: duaneology

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse

originally posted by: duaneology
a reply to: DeadSeraph

It's my belief that there are many who post on UFO related forums who are not sincere. Their goal seems to be to devalue the discussion to the point where nothing can be taken seriously because everything gets buried under a mountain of nonsense.

really don't mean to sound like a jerk...but can someone show me the parts that CAN be taken seriously?

This type of response is indicative of someone who is being intellectually lazy. If you cannot see any validity in the hundreds of first hand accounts from credible sources, many backed by radar anomalies and multiple witnesses then what can I say that could possibly encourage you to open your eyes.

There are very solid, well documented cases out there. Often corroborated by photographic or video evidence. I've spent a great deal of time sifting through the nonsense to explore these credible incidents. I'm not going to do your research for you. I'm not interested in selling anyone anything. I'm perfectly happy being all alone with my conclusions drawn from the evidence. Just as you appear to be perfectly happy shrugging your shoulders and saying "meh" while remaining willfully ignorant.

No offense...I don't mean to sound like a jerk either

I need something more.
Credible sources? because they say so? because they have a fancy title? anomalies? an anomaly on a radar does not mean by default ufo, it could be anything.
Multiple eye witnesses? mass hysteria, like the witch hunts, or those people in mumbai thinking water from a polluted river was suddenly sweet. wikipedia alone lists 12 cases, as recent as 2012
i won't question your research because that is for you to know.
But i need something more real, personal conclusions or sixth sense be damned.
and by saying that you have reached personal conclusions and are happy with them, unfortunately means very little and ties back to my first reply about ufology being a religion. "i see the truth i want to see and that's all that matters"
the only case that has personally made me go "huh" is one in brazil where people have reported being attacked by aliens, and the victims are shown having visible scars/ burns on their bodies. i'll link it, if you haven't heard about it, it might be worth a watch!
www.youtube.com...

Ufology is fascinating in the same way greek mythology is: none of it is true, but the stories can be exciting sometimes, if well told.

a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

To say that absolutely NONE of it is true is pretty presumptive. Mankind has been seeing strange anomalies in the sky since the dawn of time. There are medieval paintings that feature craft in the sky that seem oddly similar to the typical flying saucers we know of today.
The difference between this and Greek mythology is that people don't claim to see manticores and gorgons on a regular basis today.

That's not to say that what these people are seeing are without a doubt intergalactic aliens that come here to sexually assault rednecks, but there is a substantial amount of odd reports that make it pretty clear that there is SOME sort of phenomena occurring in our skies.

Is it aliens? reptilians? interdimensional demons? Obama? Hell if I know. Personally I'm pretty positive that the vast majority of reports are just misidentified military experimental craft. (Although I also enjoy the 'Time Traveler' hypothesis as sort of a thought experiment, I'm aware theres no way to prove this.)
But that's the thing, there's no way we'll know for sure if we just blow all this off as though it was a mere myth.

a reply to: Bandersn4tch

Check your mail

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse

originally posted by: duaneology

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse

originally posted by: duaneology
a reply to: DeadSeraph

It's my belief that there are many who post on UFO related forums who are not sincere. Their goal seems to be to devalue the discussion to the point where nothing can be taken seriously because everything gets buried under a mountain of nonsense.

really don't mean to sound like a jerk...but can someone show me the parts that CAN be taken seriously?

This type of response is indicative of someone who is being intellectually lazy. If you cannot see any validity in the hundreds of first hand accounts from credible sources, many backed by radar anomalies and multiple witnesses then what can I say that could possibly encourage you to open your eyes.

There are very solid, well documented cases out there. Often corroborated by photographic or video evidence. I've spent a great deal of time sifting through the nonsense to explore these credible incidents. I'm not going to do your research for you. I'm not interested in selling anyone anything. I'm perfectly happy being all alone with my conclusions drawn from the evidence. Just as you appear to be perfectly happy shrugging your shoulders and saying "meh" while remaining willfully ignorant.

No offense...I don't mean to sound like a jerk either

I need something more.
Credible sources? because they say so? because they have a fancy title? anomalies? an anomaly on a radar does not mean by default ufo, it could be anything.
Multiple eye witnesses? mass hysteria, like the witch hunts, or those people in mumbai thinking water from a polluted river was suddenly sweet. wikipedia alone lists 12 cases, as recent as 2012
i won't question your research because that is for you to know.
But i need something more real, personal conclusions or sixth sense be damned.
and by saying that you have reached personal conclusions and are happy with them, unfortunately means very little and ties back to my first reply about ufology being a religion. "i see the truth i want to see and that's all that matters"
the only case that has personally made me go "huh" is one in brazil where people have reported being attacked by aliens, and the victims are shown having visible scars/ burns on their bodies. i'll link it, if you haven't heard about it, it might be worth a watch!
www.youtube.com...

At what point does having to continually come up with flimsy scenarios to excuse the evidence away become tiresome for people like you? Yes, the thousands who've seen something are lying or delusional or mistaken. Pilots, police, doctors, lawyers, military personal at all levels, astronauts, scientists, etc...these people are all either full of shxt or weak minded fools...because that makes sense. And all of the photographic, video and radar evidence is either a hoax, an optical illusion or a case of mistaken identity...ALL OF IT...because that is also very logical.

The funny thing about the debunker crowd is how you play both sides of the coin when dealing with the credibility of eye witness accounts. If it's some country bumpkin making a report it's worthy of scorn, but if it's a credible, reliable person of a professional standing your attitude is "what I'm supposed to believe them because of a fancy title?"...no mater what's presented you find a way to dismiss it.

It's painfully obvious to me that you've done very little research into the subject. I know this because there isn't a intelligent person on the planet who can look at the enormous amount of quality evidence that's available and not come away, at the very least, convinced that something real and tangible is happening and that not all of the testimony, photos, video, etc. can be simply dismissed with weak explanations like "mass hysteria" or "swamp gas".

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Hey DeadSeraph: I've spoken with you before on the boards, usually on my dipping my big toe into the religion forum, questioning in pretty sophomoric attempts at threads thereabouts. But you always entertain my sophomoric attempts at threads there gently, so….I'm hoping for similar treatment here.

But I require more proof of it coming here, than grainy sunspots, or easily explainable nasa footage. I have yet to see smoking gun evidence. Naturally, I will seek out logical answers before I jump to the conclusion that something is a UFO.

And so we star and post away, hoping to back up another person who is like us with our memories and knowledge of the truth, whether it's proven satisfactorily to anyone else or not.

Tetra,

You ALWAYS put your heart into your posts and replies, and I don't always
acknowledge you, as truthfully I only agree with you some moderate percent
of the time.

But this reply was spot on perfect.

I had a 'sighting' of something the size of a football field over my head
that (apparently) obeyed few or none of the laws of physics. I drew
a very detailed diagram of it and reported it to MUFON and was
interviewed like 4 times about it.

But I can't prove one single thing about it...

So I understand your response perfectly.

Awesome response.

Kev

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: tetra50

Why is it that the mundane explanation offends some people?

That's a great question. I run into that same thing about 80%
of the time in my posts and replies.

When I talk to spiritual types, I always emphasize a good
grounding in science is important first, and then if you
can't explain something, looking into fringe theories
is fine, if you are careful.

When I talk to scientific types, I always speak their lingo,
but I emphasize that for example 'most of the universe
is missing' so science is just dabbing it's toes into the
real nature of reality.. so open-mindedness to fringe
topics is a great idea... all of science which exists
today WAS ONCE A FRINGE TOPIC.

I get it from all sides, as I won't be pinned down
into any particular clique.

I really prize a flexible mind which is mostly
grounded in 'supposed reality' but is very open
to change as warranted.

But as others have said, (Gortex for example),
people have beliefs which comfort them, and
that's a very human thing, that's hard to avoid.

Thanks for this thread.

Kev

An alien spacecraft could land on the Whitehouse lawn and have a televised chit chat with Barack Obama and there would still be a huge number who would say it was fake.

Nothing will convince these people that the phenomenon is real. The disinformation-ists have done their job very well.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I believe in some fringe theories (like the paranormal for instance, having personally experienced poltergeist activity). But I don't think every single ghost video on youtube is authentic.

Do you have any proof of this poltergeist experience you wildly claim? Or does it boil down to a story. You see, you believe in ghosts and all that BS because you imagined you experience one. So for the people who believe in UFO's etc and as you claim "set the bar low" they are NO different from you. Just the same bag!!

You have set your bar low on ghosts and the like, because you trusted your own eyes. Not a reliable source for anyone as we are finding out each and everyday with eyewitness testimonies and the vast difference between what one person saw and another even though they were starring at the same thing.

Everyone's bar is low, and that's because people just want to believe!!

a reply to: projectbane

Do you have any proof of this poltergeist experience you wildly claim?

No, I don't. I don't expect anyone to believe me about my experience based solely on my word alone. However, I'm also not the type of person to bust into a thread about personal experiences and cry "pics or it didn't happen", either.

You see, you believe in ghosts and all that BS because you imagined you experience one. So for the people who believe in UFO's etc and as you claim "set the bar low" they are NO different from you.

Some of them are no different than me, because like me, they look for logical explanations first when they see a video or a picture, rather than jumping to fantastic conclusions immediately. I have a great deal of respect for those people. My question wasn't really directed at them, was it?

You have set your bar low on ghosts and the like, because you trusted your own eyes.

No, I haven't. If I see some video or picture on the internet related to the paranormal, I look for logical explanations first. I try to figure out if it's faked, or there is a mundane explanation to be found.

Not a reliable source for anyone as we are finding out each and everyday with eyewitness testimonies and the vast difference between what one person saw and another even though they were starring at the same thing.

What does any of that have to do with videos and pictures touted as "evidence"?

Everyone's bar is low, and that's because people just want to believe!!

It's almost like you didn't bother reading the thread...

a reply to: Urantia1111

Thanks for your honest response. I could have done without the name calling, however.

originally posted by: Bandersn4tch
The real question here is, why are you setting the bar so high for ufo nuts. :^)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence..not ambiguous evidence.

a reply to: duaneology

Excellent post.

That good sir is what I've been preaching on this site for the few years I've been here. I rarely post to explain that dilemma nowadays because it inevitably falls on deaf ears.

originally posted by: duaneology

An alien spacecraft could land on the Whitehouse lawn and have a televised chit chat with Barack Obama and there would still be a huge number who would say it was fake.

Nothing will convince these people that the phenomenon is real. The disinformation-ists have done their job very well.

And you can produce the rubber aliens and original hoaxed photos presented in a "deathbed confession" and there would still be a huge number who make up imaginary conspiracies to conveniently account for their thoroughly debunked "evidence". Nothing will convince these people either.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I think you make a good point. I have wasted many hours watching and reading through threads because of the F&S's ... only to be disappointed ... I myself do F&S on UFO threads but only when I can agree that its interesting and worth a look .... but a dot is a dot even if it is a UFO, it proves nothing .... the ones that get me are the single lights sources in the sky ... if a species is so advanced that it can come to earth and chooses to fly at night to conceal themselves then they would also switch off external lights and shut the curtains?? wouldnt they??? ...

and I say all this as someone who believes they are here ... watching ...

originally posted by: Urantia1111


For me, unless the evidence is comically obvious rubbish, I usually give benefit of doubt to balance out the overly dismissive comments posted by the career debunkers, of which there is an overabundance here. I'm sort of a "rebunker" in that regard.

If stars and flags are any indication I'd say the overabundance lies with the overly receptive unconditional believers.

originally posted by: Urantia1111

Also, knowing the vastness of the universe, ET visitation seems highly logical and probable to me. It just does. Some of you pogues

What's a pogue?