Mormon Bombshell! Church Admits Founder Had 14 Year Old Bride!!!

originally posted by: real_one

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
My aunt got married in 1951 and she was 15. So I got to ask, is there alot of difference?
This kind of thing was not as uncommon as you think.

I agree that in the "Olden Days" this was more common, but by today's standards would you condone your 15 year old daughter marrying a man that is perhaps two to three times her age?

I'm not saying that you do condone this but I am just trying to get some perspective.

Apples and orangutans. Times have changed a lot. Life spans, responsibilities.
My grandparents all had really large families, and from everything I've heard, getting married in young teen years was perfectly normal.
These days people say 19 is too young........

originally posted by: Hefficide
Hrm "sexless marriage". Could such an animal truly exist? Did the founder of The Church of Latter Day Saints practice sexless marriage with some or all of his brides?

Probably not that unusual to marry at 14 in that era.

Also, it was not OK to have a single, unrelated female living in the same house as a man.

"Sexless marriages" we're probably not that uncommon in protecting the reputation of a female.

It's just sensationalized because of who it is.

I think I remember reading this years ago. That he became ward of a teenage girl.

According to wikipedia there were at least two brides at age 14 when married to Smith. Helen Mar Kimball and Nancy Mariah Winchester Link

There were more or less 42 wifes he married. Smith was charged by illinois law that he was living in open state adultery with a teenaged orphan Maria Lawrence who lived in Smiths household, he also married Maria´s younger sister Sarah. When Smith was charged of Polygamy he had an idea to become as a legal guardian to these girls.. and voila Polygamy became accepted in mormon religion as a part of their religion.

PDF Dialogue

There is still a lot of men who have a "secret" life as a polygamist husband. What happens behind the "veils" were well seen in Warren Jeff´s case and what was found in FLDS temple
Link

a reply to: Hefficide

Sadly that's still going on... and not in a 'Sexless' marriage.

I live in Colorado right on the border with Utah... and while it's illegal now, there are still a lot of practicing polygamist there... anyway there was a news story from last year.... this guy got busted for having a 5 wives the youngest was only 15... they didn't say in the paper how young she was when he married her...

Anyway, he got busted not for having all those wives but for kicking his sons out on the street when they turned thirteen... the daughters he kept to trade off but he abandoned all the boy babies...

Crazy S**t to be sure... but some of those old families still cling to the old ways

originally posted by: HardCorps

I live in Colorado right on the border with Utah... and while it's illegal now, there are still a lot of practicing polygamist there... anyway there was a news story from last year.... this guy got busted for having a 5 wives the youngest was only 15... they didn't say in the paper how young she was when he married her...

Anyway, he got busted not for having all those wives but for kicking his sons out on the street when they turned thirteen... the daughters he kept to trade off but he abandoned all the boy babies...

Those are Fundamental Mormon's.

They are not an official recognized religion by government or legitimate Mormons.

a reply to: HardCorps

Insane, when boys start to look at the girls in certain way they become a threat to the "elders" in the community. How good status a man have more brides he will get, young males do not have a status and brides are prespoken to these old guys.

a reply to: Hefficide

Back in those days women did marry much earlier for several reasons. 14 was an acceptable age in that food was scarce, humanity had been depleted by wars and such, and to have one less mouth to feed was a good thing for the younger ones to survive of her family.

14 was once a pivotal age for girls in that they had reached the childbeaing years and so were considered a woman from the fist period forward. Girls were worked Hard in those days as well, the chores were never ending and they were a far cry from the young girls of the more recent and modern societies.

Not all girls were matured by this age, but many were and ready to move onto their lives as people did not always survive as they do do now with modern medicines, hospitals and healthcare.

Women ruled civilizations and were Queens of countries at young ages. 15 has always been an accepted age, and like I said for some 14 year olds were not ready but then some 20 year olds are not either.

In Biblical times people were married at a very young age. Girls were usually betrothed before they reached puberty – majority of the time the marriage would have consummated when the girl reached puberty, and that was usually between the ages of 8, 9 or older,(Note: when a girl reached puberty prior to the 20th century, she was considered to be an adult in most cultures/societies). In this article I will mostly quote Scholarly sources to prove that marriage in ancient Israelite times took place at a very young age, sometimes the girls who were married off were pre-pubescent. There was no law against a pre-pubescent girl being married off. Actually as you will read further, you will come to realise that the Mishnah gave approval for a Man to have intercourse to a betrothed girl, any-time after the age of three years old.

discover-the-truth.com...

LDS Mormon Teen Polygamy

There is no documentation to support the idea that marriage at fourteen was "approaching eligibility." Actually, marriages even two years later, at the age of sixteen, occurred occasionally but infrequently in Helen Mar's culture. Thus, girls marrying at fourteen, even fifteen, were very much out of the ordinary.
...
Age of eligibility for women in Joseph Smith’s time-frame would start at a minimum of 19 ½ years old.

This would suggest that Joseph Smith had sexual relations and married several women before the age of eligibility, and some very close to the age of eligibility including:
...
Whatever the average age of menarche might have been in the mid 19th-century, the average age of marriage was around 20 for women and 22 for men. And a gap of 15 to 20 years or more between partners was very unusual, not typical. Whatever biology might have to say, according to the morals of his time, several of Joseph Smith's wives were still inappropriately young for him.

It is a pure myth that 19th-century American girls married at age 12-14.

AND, it's VERY different for a young, mature girl to CHOOSE to marry (I married at 15) and a young girl, being raised in a cult to be CHOSEN for marriage. Two different animals.

"Joseph Smith he was pedo dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb."


Seriously though this was what 1830? Attitudes back then were a lot more erm backward IE old enough to bleed old enough to breed.

Not saying its right, but the times were different.

originally posted by: crazyewok
"Joseph Smith he was pedo dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb."


Seriously though this was what 1830? Attitudes back then were a lot more erm backward IE old enough to bleed old enough to breed.

Not saying its right, but the times were different.

Very true considering women could not vote for nearly another 100 years.

Thankfully laws have been created in more modern societies to protect all children and innocents, boys and girls. I mean remember psychology 100 where we read how in recent past people could do anything they chose with a child or infant? Tossing them from building to building in England stands out in my minds eye still to this day! Like a football and if the child fell to their death or crippled for life they had no protection, no vindication for the poor treatment.

But not all babies were tossed from windows like footballs, some parents were more loving, empathetic, intelligent than to do so, however if it was customary to do so, religiously deemed normal, it could still be happening today.

We have come along way in the past 300 years towards children's rights, but we have a much greater distance to go with issues far greater than a girl wedding at 14 a couple hundred years ago.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Mormonism is not a cult. JOseph Smith knew at the time the church was dwindling, life was very difficult, war, famine, harsh winters, and so though divine wisdom chose to lead his church in such a way that he helped usher in continuity of future generations. Some time later the whole polygamy side ended as it was no longer needed, but then there are always those who chose to live their lives in polygamy whether Mormon, or other religion.

If we had a mega disaster or war and all but a few lives sparred on earth today, people would have to populate again and I doubt that they would even bother to marry as they once did, that is unless it was out of love and choice.

originally posted by: Hefficide

With this consensus I am left to ask, why then did the Church keep this secret for nearly 200 years?

I don't think it was a secret.

They were a persecuted group. They still are today actually.

Not publicly acknowledging something, doesn't mean it was a secret.

I was Morman for 5 years. It is a amazing organization. Except for the fundamental type Christian belief, with some differences, I'd re-join in a second.

originally posted by: antar
Some time later the whole polygamy side ended as it was no longer needed, but then there are always those who chose to live their lives in polygamy whether Mormon, or other religion.

Polygamy ended to get statehood. Also, Mormon women had the right to vote, which they had to give up.

Religious freedom should have allowed the right of polygamy. However, the USA government was Christian dominated and wouldn't allow it.

a reply to: Hefficide

There is something about religious power that, in my earnest opinion, tends to make even rational people turn into their own little demigods.

I totally agree with you on this, never actually thought about it this way before but your statement makes perfect sense!

Hrm "sexless marriage". Could such an animal truly exist? Did the founder of The Church of Latter Day Saints practice sexless marriage with some or all of his brides?

I have serious doubts about Smiths marriage to the 14 year old being sexless. That's probably why he married her, so he could sleep with her.

Wouldn't the marriage be invalid if it wasn't consummated? What exactly was the research that was done for the Mormon Church to come to the conclusion Smith didn't sleep with his 14 year old wife.

source

The information will be surprising to many Latter-day Saints who either didn't know or were encouraged to dismiss speculation as anti-Mormon propaganda, Mauss said.

To me it seems like they're still dismissing the situation by not fully admitting everything.

Little is known about Smith's marriages to the already-married women, the article says. They also might have been the type of unions that didn't involve sex.

Little is known about Smiths marriages yet the church still thinks it's possible that Smith didn't sleep with her, yeah right!

While it's good the Mormon Church is talking about Smith and his wives, it's also a little disgusting that they seem to be justifying his actions by say he "might not" have slept with her. To me, that would indicate he married her for other reasons, such as being a father figure. If that was the case, why marry her?

a reply to: Hefficide

Mormons are a cult. A dangerous anti-American cult.

originally posted by: th3dudeabides
a reply to: Hefficide

Mormons are a cult. A dangerous anti-American cult.

So you have never actually talked to a mormon that wasn't handing out pamphlets door to door have you?

In Texas you can marry at 14 with your Parents signature.

At least you could the last I have heard.

Not something I would do...

moroni

The Book of Moroni is the last of the books that make up the Book of Mormon. According to the text it was written by the prophet Moroni sometime between 400 and 421.

lds legislators

Are non-mormon legislators elected?

moroni was an angel?

Yeah, it's a ...something for sure!

"whack a mole"

originally posted by: Hefficide

With this consensus I am left to ask, why then did the Church keep this secret for nearly 200 years?

It wasn't a secret. I was raised Mormon and have known that Joseph Smith had a 14 year old wife since I was a teenager. It wasn't very uncommon back then. Not saying its ok. Back then it was ok to have African American slaves too. If you or I was alive back then would we have stood against slavery or young marriage? What about plural marriage? Its easy to say well of course I would have been against those things, but maybe we would have been sheep following blindly. I don't understand plural marriage either but the main Mormon religion doesn't practice plural marriage anymore