happy people disgust me

originally posted by: introspectionist
I did not draw the conclusion that you think you're free in that particular way you suggested above. And my point didn't reach to you. I'll stop trying now.

This is precisely why I used a direct quote of what you said to highlight the faulty inductive reasoning. I think that before you judge others, perhaps you should make sure that there is not issue with yourself first. I'd advise that to anyone who thought they "knew it all".

a reply to: WhiteAlice

As for conclusions, you drew faulty conclusions yourself.

originally posted by: introspectionist
a reply to: WhiteAlice

As for conclusions, you drew faulty conclusions yourself.

It's grown extraordinarily clear that, no matter how gently one attempts to actually have a discussion with you in an attempt to offer perhaps a different point of view for consideration, your mind is fixed and will not be changed. I have any suspicions as to why that is but I'm not going do utter them here. I do suggest that you start actually being what your namesake on this board is and that is not fallacious at all. A little introspection is good for anyone.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Actually the screen name mixed with the avatar is so awesomely Ironic I don't think they understand that they could have issues of any kind at all.

I tried to poke nicely..

Hate only comes from a lack of self esteem in this sort of case. Knowing who you are and different ways that you are limited will let you know that even shallow people have things about them that are better than you. We are all different and no one is perfect, but everyone has things to offer.

The OP is in need.. I don't know what they need, but it's something I can't give whatever it is. But I would if I could.

originally posted by: introspectionist
My view is that mind control isn't inherently bad, nor inherently good, it's neutral. To me all politics is mind control, basically everything is mind control. When you were in school, somebody decided what books you were going to read and what the teacher was going to talk about; that's mind control. When you turn on your TV, no matter what is broadcast, good or bad, somebody decided what was going to be broadcast and what was not going to be; that's mind control. When you're in the grocery store, somebody decided what pictures to put on the packaging. Somebody decided which products to place near the entrance and which near the exit and which in the middle of the store. Somebody decided how the traffic signs are designed.

YES!!

but then at some point it's all on YOU. Don't be weak. Make your own mind control. CONTROL your mind. You are deciding to be unhappy. That's your mind control. You think no one else sees it. this makes you unhappy, but you are letting that be your mind control.

@WhiteAlice @KnightLight

I'm not offended in the slightest by any of the things you have said. You are entitled to your opinion. But personally I believe that your comment on my username and avatar shows that you haven't understood anything of this thread.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
no matter how gently one attempts to actually have a discussion with you in an attempt to offer perhaps a different point of view for consideration, your mind is fixed and will not be changed

You are entitled to your opinion. I think I got your point, but I might be wrong. However, I think that you didn't get my point, nor do I think you got the message of Brave New World from reading it, because it was the same as my point, and the same as the point that Frank Salter presented in the quote about the Cold War that I posted.

It's ironic though, because your inability to understand what I'm talking about is exactly what this is about, exactly what Brave New World is about.

drops of liquid sealing-wax, drops that adhere, incrust, incorporate themselves with what they fall on, till finally the rock is all one scarlet blob. "Till at last the child's mind is these suggestions, and the sum of the suggestions is the child's mind. And not the child's mind only. The adult's mind too-all his life long. The mind that judges and desires and decides-made up of these suggestions. But all these suggestions are our suggestions!" The Director almost shouted in his triumph. "Suggestions from the State."

"But, Bernard, you're saying the most awful things."

"Don't you wish you were free, Lenina?"

"I don't know what you mean. I am free."

I didn't say that you think you're free because of you saying that you use duckduckgo, but because of how you said it, and in what context, and from your inability to get my point.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
No one in their right mind would attribute the countries of E. Germany and the USSR were free and comparatively, while the US is better than both of those by a landslide, it's poorer in the qualities of freedom than other countries (ie Norway or Finland).

I'm not in my right mind apparently, so take it or leave it, but my view is that East Germany and the USSR actually were freer than the West of today in one sense. The people there understood exactly how unfree they were because the walls of the prison and the prison guards were in their face. The people in the West today for the most part have no clue that they are caged, just as yourself, because their imprisonment is vastly more subtle, so subtle that it's totally invisible to most people, which was exactly the point of Brave New World. Brave New World isn't primarily about what you call "actual mind control", it is about what you call

something as humdrum as a cute ad on the tele

And as for Norway and Finland, I live in Sweden which has many similarities to those countries. I would argue that the Scandinavian countries are in many ways less free than the USA, because of the kind of things I have talked about above. Americans generally think their country is exceptional in many ways, and the people in Scandinavia are the same. One difference is that in the USA people are generally more suspicious of big government and authority in general, whereas it's more of "an iron fist with a velvet glove" in Scandinavia, more Brave New World, because most people actually defend their prison totally, in fact much like in Nineteen Eighty-Four where "freedom is slavery" they think that all of the restrictions on their freedom are in fact protecting their freedom. I think there is another dimension to this though, that I touched on briefly in this thread. It's a spiritual thing.

a reply to: introspectionist

Did you call me white light?

Brave new world is one of my favorite books, and opening the doors of perception is something I have followed..

You may still be missing a big point though.

Go be angry and what does that do for you?

You can control your own mind, so can I ask you a question?

What is your purpose on Earth? What is your goal?

originally posted by: KnightLight
a reply to: introspectionist

Did you call me white light?

Brave new world is one of my favorite books, and opening the doors of perception is something I have followed..

You may still be missing a big point though.

Go be angry and what does that do for you?

You can control your own mind, so can I ask you a question?

What is your purpose on Earth? What is your goal?

I misread your username. Edited it now.

I said in this thread that I think that the miserable and disturbed, the stiff neurotic introverts, those are the people that are undergoing enlightenment. The well-adjusted, the happy, the emotionally intelligent, they are the useful idiots, serving to enlighten the former group. Take it or leave it.

originally posted by: introspectionist


I said in this thread that I think that the miserable and disturbed, the stiff neurotic introverts, those are the people that are undergoing enlightenment. The well-adjusted, the happy, the emotionally intelligent, they are the useful idiots, serving to enlighten the former group. Take it or leave it.

Ok but here is why I keep disagreeing with you. I am both of those groups. I never used to be. I am an introvert who wanted to leave the earth when I was 4 years old. I realized "grownups" didn't exist and everyone was dumb, and that at some point we will get to our destruction. The destruction part was more about the age of 12 or so..

I got more awake from then on..

At some point in "enlightenment" you go beyond physical problems, and then people and consciousness become more important than New World Orders, and Death. It's ok that people are different. Like you said we all serve a purpose, but I very much disagree with generalizations and groups.. All happy people are dumb is a bad generalization, but I do agree it's mostly correct.

I've accepted my death. Maybe that's why I am happy and intelligent enough to know what's going on around us at the same time. It's not my job to baby sit people who want to not be awake. They will do what they do..

What we can do is to not hate them for it. Hating them will not help them wake up, it will only separate you from them, and then you don't have a chance to help them, or the world. It's like that bad habbit of calling people sheep. Its an emotional response of feeling helpless, because you can see the changes happening in a bad direction and you can see that if everyone was awake that we could save it all.

You're being impatient. That's in My opinion of course. I will not tell you I'm right. This is just my angle. I do think I am right of course.

originally posted by: KnightLight
I do think I am right of course.

We've all got our frames of reference, which my posts were about to a large extent.

I agree with you to some extent. I have experienced more of a forgiving accepting state of mind at times, what's called altruism. However I think that that's not the state of mind you're in when you're undergoing enlightenment. Undergoing enlightenment is very much connected to egoism and fear in my view, lack of egoism and fear can be either a sign you have overcome egoism and fear or a sign you never had much of it, and the latter is true for most people, and they are not enlightened but the opposite. I personally think it is a fluctuation between the two sides of the coin of enlightenment, parts of the time Jesus is in the underworld, parts of the time he is resurrected.

From a recent thread on this forum about Israel:

Here even the President of Israel is ruminating on the isolation of this wicked and evil regime that has alienated the entire civilized world. He speaks about the inhumanity of his nation and that they no longer are the people who past centuries championed the cause of the oppressed. Now they are the oppressor!

A smile doesn't always mean someone is happy. Maybe it's just a family trait, but if you think you might be pissing me off, and I start smiling, there is about to be trouble. My father and brother have the same quirk.

originally posted by: skunkape23
A smile doesn't always mean someone is happy. Maybe it's just a family trait, but if you think you might be pissing me off, and I start smiling, there is about to be trouble. My father and brother have the same quirk.

I didn't say they had to smile. Anyone who loves their parents, anyone who has children, anyone who isn't viewed as sick and disturbed is still too much within the groupthink to ever understand anything I say, i.e. 99% of people. Take it or leave it.

Arthur Shopenhauer said that the true philosopher realizes the wisdom of death and resists the inherent urge to reproduce his kind. Sounds like a wise man to me.

Not many here are really getting what the OP is trying to say. He's saying that for someone to feel happy all the time they must be very unfeeling to the suffering that's going on, he's just saying happy people must be living in their own bubble.....ignorant to what is happening in the globe. So in effect happy people are ignorant and unfeeling (the unfeeling part being the paradox)

originally posted by: 0rbital
Not many here are really getting what the OP is trying to say. He's saying that for someone to feel happy all the time they must be very unfeeling to the suffering that's going on, he's just saying happy people must be living in their own bubble.....ignorant to what is happening in the globe. So in effect happy people are ignorant and unfeeling (the unfeeling part being the paradox)

Show me 1 single person that feels happy all the time.

You can sit there and say "im so in tune with everyone because life sucks and I am so empathetic to the suffering of the world that I know what people are always feeling" and if that makes someone feel more important than they are so be it.

The reality of it is emotions come in waves. You have have peaks and valleys, ebbs and flows. Right now my life is pretty awesome as I am doing well financially-professionally , emotionally, mentally and physically. I just saw 2 really good bands last week with music appropriate for the time of year. Yup you know what , I'm smiling right now and my high is no higher then what someone else is feeling just like when things inevitably balance out and I feel sad my lows will be no more severe then what anyone else is feeling.

Yup it sucks that their is suffering in the world and yup it's great that their are wonderful things in the world. Not spending my nights rocking in the corner about how bad it all is for someone else around the planet has exactly 0% impact on my ability to enjoy life or to feel things acutely when they happen.

If people want to pass judgement on someone else for the small section of time they get a glimpse into how someone else chooses to live then wonderful but that's a pretty selfish approach. Enjoy thinking you have some great insight into the human condition.

originally posted by: introspectionist

originally posted by: skunkape23
A smile doesn't always mean someone is happy. Maybe it's just a family trait, but if you think you might be pissing me off, and I start smiling, there is about to be trouble. My father and brother have the same quirk.

I didn't say they had to smile. Anyone who loves their parents, anyone who has children, anyone who isn't viewed as sick and disturbed is still too much within the groupthink to ever understand anything I say, i.e. 99% of people. Take it or leave it.

Thin line between love and hate,

No children other than my 4 legged ones

I view myself as quite sick and disturbed and I understand what you are saying.

You are just on the other side of the scales tipping them to suit the negativity clouding your mind, deceiving you.

Realize your own deceptions and find balance.

originally posted by: introspectionist
We're all both subjected to mind control and are ourselves mind controlling. When you write a post on this forum, the readers' minds are affected, so you're mind controlling them. And then they write something that affects your mind, they're mind controlling you. I remember that Jan Irvin talked about this on Red Ice Radio.

And yet we all know or suspect or can speculate how much influence we have on ourselves here and others that might read yet we keep piling it on don't we?


Why is that do you think?

Are we really extremely egotistical yet the deception is so strong within in so many that it makes one perceive themselves as righteous, enlightened with something to share?

Are we lonely and in pain, scared and in fear and come here to share that negativity?

Are we lost, finding our way only to keep loosing ourselves and our path so we come here to share our confusion and internal conflict?

Do you really believe the words and do they have that much affect on you that you call the influence of language and words 'mind control'?

If so why not take a break, rest the mind for a while, let the truth be and come back to searching and knowing whats going on in the world after a good break, that is if the words are that potent and "mind controlling" as you say?

Then happy people who live in their bubble maybe because consciously or unconsciously they choose to protect themselves or block out the negativity and deception might not seem so disgusting to you when you see them from a different perspective, now your vision is too narrow and only getting narrower.

Find the balance so you can go take peek from each side of the spectrum, without the balance once you move close to one edge you might fall in not knowing you are falling until some real painful experiences come along and wakes you up. Don't fall too far, find balance and then take the leap.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

It makes total sense to me that we are ourselves mindcontrolling. It makes no difference if you read a newspaper article or have it told to you by someone who read it.

a reply to: opethPA

Awesome post, opethPA. Perfect really.