Attempted "No-Knock" Raid at My House

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

I have some very cool friends over in your neck of the woods that take honour, pride and integrity very seriously, and yes, I would not like to cross them but that's not likely to happen because we're usually drunk hungover asleep or eating.

You know, when you come to the realization that those are the only things you really have, you can become pretty jealous about them! This is - or was, and seems to be planning on it again at some point - coal mining country, and that is pretty much all the economy is based upon. When the mines ran away, people here were left with pretty much nothing - the same thing they had before the mines came to begin with. So yeah, when you add honor, pride, and integrity to "nothing" and sum it out, all you're left with is honor, pride, and integrity.

Some folks can get downright defensive about them, and as you say we're very serious about them!

Dang Neno, I'm so happy your both ok. Well, all 4 of you!
Just the fact that they "knew" George, and what he may do, then seeing you with a gun?
Wow. That could have ended so badly.

And regardless of what others think, I think it is really nice that you not only told us what happened, but talked about the why's and how's of behavior.
Thanks for that.

And there is NOTHING wrong with "Hillbilly, Redneck". I love the one I married!

a reply to: nenothtu



sorry, here is what I meant by big red key.

originally posted by: boncho


The OP might have been shaking his leg a little more than they'd like to admit, but Im sure we'd all remember it differently.

No offense OP.

No offense taken - and I HAD to shake my leg to keep it warm - I think there may have been something cold and wet running down it!

I ain't nobody's hero, that's for sure, but I think the biggest part of getting through life is making yourself do what you think you've got to do, regardless of how jittery your innards might be... that, and never letting them see you sweat even if you ARE shook up!

You just have to play through, whatever comes, and make them think you're in full control of your faculties. Appearing calm has a grand effect on calming other folks. It's contagious.

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Oh God....here we go.

Seems like your gun put yourself and your family in a potentially fatal situation

Seems to me that cops sneaking around a property in the middle of the night, unannounced, put him and his family in a potentially fatal situation.
Perhaps you missed the story about the cops capping that 7 year old girl? I'm sure she was cocked and locked to....putting her and her family in a "potentially fatal situation" that turned out to be fatal for her.
....so who was to blame again?

Yeah, it's disgraceful how they do raids over there outside of day light hours. But that's the reality of it, so it does not make my observation any less relevant.

You really are clueless about how country folk live aren't you? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with "paranoia"....
Let's just imagine that there were no cops.....the intruder happens to be a hungry bear (yeah, we have those around here) and you go out with said torch...no protection......< yeah, that's about all I have to say about that......
Maybe it is you who needs to realize that the world you live in can be a dangerous place at times.....this isn't pleasantville bud.

I spent many years living in the country, admittedly there's no bears here though, lol. But he clearly stated he was going outside with the intention of shooting a person, not a bear. Guns should only be used for hunting animals, not humans was kind of my point.

Anyway,don't really care, I was just making an observation. Besides, how would I get my nightly dose of entertainment if there weren't all those US cop shows of police and crazy gun nuts trying to shoot each other up? No need to let my person opinion get in the way.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Anyway,don't really care, I was just making an observation.

And I was just saying and am saying that your "observation" is incorrect.

Guns should only be used for hunting animals, not humans was kind of my point.

It doesn't matter what guns "should" be used for....that isn't the reality of the world we live in. If someone is creeping around my house in the middle of the night, I am going to shoot if I must and I am going to be armed when I can. It is called being prepared. Not a DAMNED thing wrong with that.

all those US cop shows of police and crazy gun nuts trying to shoot each other up

Yeah, those "crazy gun nuts"......nice try, I ain't playin' this mornin'....Got better things to do. Trying to label all those with guns as "nuts"....well, like I said, nice try.

No need to let my person opinion get in the way.

Oh, trust me, it doesn't. The reality is, me and MANY more like me will keep our guns, regardless of your opinion or any that share that opinion. You can call us "paranoid", "crazy gun nuts"....whatever you like. Doesn't matter.

Oh, and....

But he clearly stated he was going outside with the intention of shooting a person, not a bear.

And what would you have him do? Go out with a light and kindly ask the intruder (who's intentions he cannot possibly know...all he knows is that someone is intruding in the middle of the damned night) to go away and come back when the lights are on? Are you kidding me?

a reply to: nenothtu

Nah someone called about him running around armed and hallucinating, that is why they came; remember the faulty directions, that means someone called them, and someone gave directions. They said they had papers on him, but what that means is anyone's guess. Might have been a probation/parole violation in regards the past attempted murder, I'd say being armed and hallucinating might have been the only real reason they came out, and a violation in and of itself, since they let him out of jail the same night.

It was probably the man's step father who called. I wouldn't want that guy near my house either....

a reply to: Answer

Yeeeeahhhhh... sorry but the dialogue and level of detail alone give it away as a fabricated story.

No it doesn't. Why would you say that? Some people have a gift of expressing themselves with the written word, and can recount a recent event with such detail and precision as to allow the reader to 'experience' it step by step.

The only way I would accept your quick-draw debunking, is if you were 'Cousin George' or another family member in the story. Otherwise, you're shooting blanks!

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: nenothtu

Damn neno, this one feels mighty close to home knowing that there isn't much distance between us.
Glad all went alright, given the circumstances, and that no one was shot and/or killed. I'd imagine that had things went awry I'd be reading about it in the local papers soon enough. Of course, then they'd make you out to be the "bad guy"....some "paranoid fanatic" type or whatever it took to discredit you and keep the blame off them.

I'm not too fanatic any more, but paranoid fits pretty well.

The fella who is editor of the paper you mention - we both know that guy is like a pit bull with a bone, so he might've investigated until it hurt, but most of 'em, nah, they'd just print the party line, and then on to the sports page.

Being as you are who you are, if you want to check out the veracity of the tale, I can U2U my cousin's real name to you, and you can cruise the papers for stories about him to verify that he exists and is un hombre malo to the locals. No, it's not the guy who killed the Pizza Place people - that one was a real worm, and I do believe his run is done now. Another of my relatives was living with him when he did that, and it still creeps me out. Matter of fact, I can scan and send the story from last year to make it easier (out of the RNP - a little southeast of you, I believe), but I haven't looked for any arrest stories over this latest incident, so I dunno if it made the papers or not.

Regarding Coopers "Color Code" you set forth, I live in yellow, perpetually. It often makes folks around me nervous, as I seem to be trying to see everything, all at once, and it makes them edgy because they can't quite put a finger on what it is I'm doing.

Seeing the light sweep the window, and then the guy at the corner, bumped it WAY up into a high Orange, and a yard full of armed men brought it to a flashing Red.

I've seen guys go into what I presume he is describing as "Black". Saw a guy freeze up in an ambush and stand at Port Arms like he was on a parade field or something, unfriendly buzzing noises all around him - he was just froze. If he hadn't been clotheslined into the mud, he'd have been a goner. After it was all over, there he laid, flat on his back in the mud, weapon still at Port Arms. You can imagine he took some ribbing, but froze solid and nonfunctional ain't no way to survive. Some folks react oddly to that sudden adrenaline dump until they learn how to make it work for them.

a reply to: Answer

No its not a work of fiction, ATS member Beezer can vouch its true, since I talked with him about it right after it happened. I was pretty freaked out about the whole thing, came way too close to loosing my husband (you know him as Nenothtu) that night... I didn't make a thread at the time, since I didn't want the incident to come back to us, address and all.

Enough time has passed for calmness, and my husband is a very good writer. All of this really did happen... take it or leave it as you will.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: nenothtu

maybe there's a good moral to this story about living your life in such are paranoid state that you would hear odd noises outside and go straight for a gun to shoot someone, rather than just using common sense and going for a torch to see whats going on.

Seems like your gun put yourself and your family in a potentially fatal situation.......... Just saying.

I never use a torch. Ever. it just gives your position away to any potential threats. I've walked all over these mountains, in the woods, in the dark, sometimes even through thunderstorms, and have never carried one.

That might work out OK where every one is sweetness and light, but it's not a good strategy for places where rogues are about.

LIFE is more than "potentially" fatal - it IS fatal. No one gets out of this life alive. The best we can hope for is to stack the deck in our favor, and sometimes that involves stacking it AGAINST the "other guy"... and sometimes that involves elevated force.

No, having the gun didn't put any of us in danger - having strangers OUTSIDE with guns, however, did. I didn't go to them looking for trouble - they came to ME.

a reply to: pheonix358

That was my feeling too. We had no idea there was a couple dozen cops or more surrounding the house. All we knew was that there were men running around the yard in the dark near the house. We didn't even know how many.

If they had knocked on the door, there would never have been a problem. We could have taken them by the hand and shown them where the guy they really wanted was. That is actually why I think they apologized, because I kept bitching saying what did they think was going to happen with them sneaking around people's yard's in the middle of the night. (was middle of the night for me since I had already gone to bed... lol.. 10pm or no)

People WILL get decidedly upset about unknown people getting ready for what appears to be a break in. I think the cops should think twice prior to doing these raids.

I know that being quiet about it serves its own purpose - if they aren't seen... but not always can you get a couple dozen cops around someone's house without being seen at all. Probably a lot more rarely than one might think. I certainly didn't know who they were, I was like my husband thinking it was crazy dude and his friends until I saw a light I knew was a cop searchlight, and I didn't see that until after Nenothtu went outside with a gun to protect us from crazy dude...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

You are a credit to our sex B. Bless you. Would not have expected anything less than you standing there beside him. So glad it all turned out as it did, scary situation.

a reply to: Jakal26

Yeah, those "crazy gun nuts"......nice try, I ain't playin' this mornin'....Got better things to do. Trying to label all those with guns as "nuts"....well, like I said, nice try.

Sorry if the choice of my words came across as baiting, would the phrase 2nd amendment fanatics be more PC?

Anyway, like I said it's just an observation. Unless it was the US war on drugs (which directly effects where I live), I have no real interest in trying to debate people about the endless cycle of mess a flawed political belief creates. I'll just watch the chaos unfold from the safety of my couch.

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: butcherguy

The SWAT teams in neno's area (also my general area) are a direct result of the "war on drugs"....this area has been devastated by narcotics (pharmaceuticals) providing justification for these SWAT teams.

......"Mayberry"....HA. Yeap, might have been in the past. Of course, at a mere 30 years old, it's VERY difficult for me to recall those days.

I'm a little older - 20 years older, give or take - and I can't recall those days, either. back in my day, it was mostly weed, hallucinogens, and the odd bit of heroin here and there, but not like now with the oxy and whatnot. We didn't have SWAT teams back then, though. I was blown away when I came back here and my sister, who is a nurse, told me about methadone clinics they've set up here for the addicts. I never thought I'd see that here.

back then, drugs were fairly prevalent, but not the problem they are now, and generally of a different sort. We had other problems, like the Grizzle-Duncan feud, and the occasional outsider that would breeze through to rob and/or kill some unsuspecting shopkeeper, but it wasn't common. The mine strikes and violence every three years when the contract came up for renegotiation was always exciting, but didn't stay around for ever and ever.

No, what we have now is a strange world to me, but it was never Mayberry in my recollection, either.

a reply to: nenothtu

And prior to that it was moonshine! You all have been outlaws since there were laws! Face it!

hahahahahahaha

it's a sad thing about there being so many people on drugs though... destroys communities from the inside.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: nenothtu

Uhh... did you clean up my language for a reason... cause if I recall I didn't say "We live here" (all polite and nice... lol) I politely said "This is our goddamn house!" At the top of my lungs...

Why yes, yes I did! I didn't want to give the impression that you are anything but a prim and proper young lady, and certainly didn't want folks asking me why I'm not scared of YOU!

As for me going back in the house... oh hell no... That was as fast as I could get my behind to your side in the first place (bad pain day that day) and if they were gonna be pointing guns at your head I was planning on bitching them to kingdom come, since it was my only available and useful weapon!

Like I said, I'm gonna have to train you better... If you're going to stand behind me, stand BEHIND me! You can yell at folks from cover just as easily as you can in the crosshairs!

As for the rest, I think the cops did a good job of handling the situation honestly. They thought you were a guy who recently attempted to murder someone, and who was now armed and hallucinating. They did real good ... most city cops would have shot you dead coming out of the door armed and asked questions later.

We're not in Kansas any more, eh Dorothy? At least we aren't being woke up at night with helicopter search lights beaming through the bedroom window! I have no doubt that the KC cops would have ended me forthwith. Damned shame they couldn't handle the lightweight stuff, like recovering stolen tags and broke truck windows, and I had to get on that myself. Give 'em something to shoot, though, and they're yer boys!

a reply to: nenothtu
I grew up in 1960's Appalachia, where I could be in WV, PA or MD in a matter of 20 minutes. We did have a Mayberry situation. There were two traffic lights in the entire county and they were one block away from each other in the county seat. There was one cop in the Borough police force of the county seat, and a state police officer on patrol in the other 434 square miles.
If someone had mentioned a 'SWAT Team' to me when I was a kid, I would have thought they were talking about a couple of kids with flyswatters.
ETA: It is still the only county in PA where cows outnumber people.

originally posted by: Jakal26

You really are clueless about how country folk live aren't you? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with "paranoia"....
Let's just imagine that there were no cops.....the intruder happens to be a hungry bear (yeah, we have those around here) and you go out with said torch...no protection......< yeah, that's about all I have to say about that......
Maybe it is you who needs to realize that the world you live in can be a dangerous place at times.....this isn't pleasantville bud.

yeah, we do. My old hound tangled with one of our bears about a year and a half ago, and it cost a small fortune to get him stitched up when he came limping in. This past spring, he flat out disappeared around the same time that one was seen up at the forks of the creek several times, so my guess is his luck ran out. He was a pretty hard-headed dog - couldn't tell him nothing, and I reckon he thought it was all just sport until the fat lady sang.

That's why he wasn't around to warn me about the incursion. If they had come in daylight, he'd probably have licked the hide off of them, and nothing more, wagging his tail the whole time... but after dark, he was a hound of a different color... he didn't like things sneaking around in the dark, either.

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: OpinionatedB

That's all I got to say about that.

And....

Uhh... did you clean up my language for a reason... cause if I recall I didn't say "We live here" (all polite and nice... lol) I politely said "This is our goddamn house!" At the top of my lungs

Priceless

.....to the both of you.

I think it was more the look in her eye than the words out her mouth that had effect...

at least I wouldn't have wanted to piss her off any further at that point.