Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

originally posted by: EnPassant
a reply to: ZetaRediculian
She got uptight because Jacobs would not give her the attention she was continually demanding. Read about it on Jacobs page.

Hiya EP, you'll get a broader picture of what happened by listening to the tapes between 'Emma' and David Jacobs. That way you can hear exactly what he said to her with no edit. It's actually very dark listening and reveals a man who's lost his way and become very fearful of his own worst nightmares. I can upload the Paratopia episode or 'Emma's' tapes if you send a PM.

*If* he was 100% of the belief that 'evil aliens' were slowly occupying the Earth through assimilation and inbreeding, what he did in the tapes was throw 'Emma' under the bus. He deliberately sacrificed her to protect himself.

Not only that, he knowingly attempted to create split-personalties within 'Emma' as part of that plan. In summary, he thought he was destroying her memories and personality in order to conceal himself from the wrath of the aliens. Dark or what?

Now all that aside, let's have a quick perspective check on his worst fears? His contention was that millions of people were being abducted and gradually replaced by advanced hybrids led by visiting aliens. That's a profoundly vast conspiracy conducted by powerful creatures with interstellar/interdimensional technology. And yet, he still thought he could hide from them by changing his IM/email credentials and messing with 'Emma's' memories and personality?

Pretty much any decent Intel outfit could have any one us dead by the end of today if they felt it mattered - Mossad, MI6, CIA etc. And yet Jacobs' hybrids and controlling aliens can be outwitted by IMs and amateur hypnosis?

originally posted by: EnPassant

It's always the same; when you people are given a coherent argument you get angry or sarcastic. I'm outa here.

I'm not at all angry. :-)


While you're out you might want to return that Jenny Randles book to the library. Must have racked up a helluva late fee by now.

a reply to: Kandinsky

i was taken in by the dr...at first.

i have not heard these tapes my self. but i wonder if all these ufo researches using hypnosis learned it from someone who got it from the CIA or who ever and was just an experiment to help cover covert military and industrial human testing to implant or reenforce the abduction experience.'

i would like to hear these tapes of emma. dont get me wrong i think something is taking people. but im not 100% sold on its aliens from another dimension or zeta r.

the more i watch and listen to the dr. something doesn't sit well with me.

a reply to: draknoir2

I'm not at all angry. :-)

I guess I was a little. My wife was wondering why I was throwing stuff around the room and cursing and yelling "A LOON!?, A LOON!? REALLY? A LOON?" I just hope it doesn't make it onto you tube.

The worst was when my wife sent me the David Jacobs article featured in the local Philly news site while I was at work. Of course there was no mention of anything except for his "research" which is far from the real story. She asked me all innocently if I had ever heard of this guy. I blew a gasket and spent the rest of the day sending her emails explaining who the local History Professor at Temple was.

I wasn't really throwing stuff around and screaming,

a reply to: penroc3

I listed a bunch of links here

for the audio, scroll down to see audio files and archived web site here

and Emma's site:
ufoalienabductee.com...

but i wonder if all these ufo researches using hypnosis learned it from someone who got it from the CIA or who ever and was just an experiment to help cover covert military and industrial human testing to implant or reenforce the abduction experience.'

Could David Jacobs Be Part Of A Psy Op?

I don't think so.

i would like to hear these tapes of emma. dont get me wrong i think something is taking people. but im not 100% sold on its aliens from another dimension or zeta r.

I think in the end when you look at the data that has be collected, regardless of how badly it was interpreted, you do get the impression that there is more than can be explained conventionally. There is definitely a right way to approach this and wrong way. Jacobs and Hopkins exemplify the wrong way. My view has shifted over the last couple of years from the purely psychological to something not fully understood. This is mostly from listening to peoples experiences. I have no problem entertaining or exploring alternate explanations deviating from the mainstream but asserting physical beings from outer space as the only solution is just...wrong.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Hey Kandinsky, Thanks for your even-keeled approach! I have to laugh at myself sometimes and wonder why I get so worked up about this particular topic. I think I identify with Emma in a very real way having married and divorcing a psychologist. Its really the breaching of ethics, the psychological manipulation and psychological abuse that gets to me and having been on the receiving end of that is where it really hits home. Its not easily identified when you are in the midst of it and if you don't know what it is, you wont see it.

Like I mentioned, red flags went up immediately when I saw his response to Emma. I first went to his web page learn about abduction research and clicked on the link to his "defense". What I read was not unlike anything I would find written about me by my ex psychologist wife and shared amongst family and friends on facebook in order for her to appear as the victim. I don't want to delve too far into that but its a horrible thing to have your psychology discussed and shared by a "professional" and particularly when there is no basis for any of it. Ethics and morals all out the window to make herself look like a victim because she got caught! Yes, I had the equivalent of the "Emma tapes". The empathy I have for Emma Woods is quite striking.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks for this Kandinsky, I stand corrected. I was only going by what I read years ago and did not follow up the story afterwards- welcome to the internet! I've listened to the tapes and Emma Woods testimony. Shocking. But I still believe the substance Jacob's abductees' stories but am sceptical about his ideas on what is happening.

Ufology is a dangerous subject. People have become unbalanced from it and I think this is because intense interest in ufology opens the mind to psychic intrusion - from the aliens themselves. I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded. I ignored them and they went away. I know for a fact that they can reach the minds of people who are obsessed with them or who, by whatever means, 'go' to them on a psychic level. This is what sightings are about; ufos appear to draw people's attention; to draw them in to the alien's influence. Sightings are a way of creating ufo consciousness.

But they do not want attention from everybody so they themselves engage in what GUT called the control mechanism. Part of this mechanism involves attacking and discrediting their own victims (Adamski? Meier?). In this way they create a kind of sieve; they draw many into awareness of their presence but most are sent away.

Maybe Jacobs has good reason to fear. Maybe he is under attack from these beings on a psychic level? Thanks again.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

It certainly appeared to have been an abusive relationship with stark power asymmetry. Jacobs was able to gather a collective around him with which to give 'Emma' a public kicking that would crush most people. The fact that she was clearly fragile and isolated makes the whole thing even worse. She fought back and played a large part in changing perspectives within abduction research and ufology in general.

Empathy is a good word to use

a reply to: EnPassant

Thanks for this Kandinsky, I stand corrected.

Taking that in consideration...

I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded.

Correct. There would be no basis for someone to say such a thing about someone's personal experiences or beliefs. Nor would there be ANY reason for a therapist or researcher to discuss this and post this on a public web site even if they thought that was the case.

I still believe Jacob's abductees stories

Here is the thing. If you indeed did listen to the tapes and found them to be less than what Jacobs claims, how can we trust the rest when all we have is his word?

a reply to: EnPassant

No worries EP and I'm glad that you took the post in the spirit it was intended. Thanks

Ufology is a dangerous subject. People have become unbalanced from it and I think this is because intense interest in ufology opens the mind to psychic intrusion - from the aliens themselves. I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded. I ignored them and they went away. I know for a fact that they can reach the minds of people who are obsessed with them or who, by whatever means, 'go' to them on a psychic level. This is what sightings are about; ufos appear to draw people's attention; to draw them in to the alien's influence. Sightings are a way of creating ufo consciousness.

I wrote a thread called 'Death by UFO' or something like that. It tried to address the same concerns you allude to here. You say 'aliens' where I'd prefer to think of the term as a placeholder until better terminology arises. It might be an unknown form of mental illness, brain lesions, an unknown intelligence or something else altogether. Hynek thought 'metaterrestrials,' Vallee says 'control system' and others say borderline personality disorder. Maybe it's all of them or none of them?

I don't usually get personal, but I'll come clean a little here. When I wrote the mentioned thread, it was during a long period where I had lost my way - a lot of unusual experiences plagued me for several months. I found my own way out of it and can put most of it down to skewed perception. Nevertheless, a few incidents will forever remain a mystery as they were physical and very contrived.

The outliers of anomalous experience beg for explanation if only to reassure us that all is well in the world. For you, me and anyone else who've had similar experiences, it's better not to dwell on them.

All the best

originally posted by: EnPassant
a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks for this Kandinsky, I stand corrected. I was only going by what I read years ago and did not follow up the story afterwards- welcome to the internet! I've listened to the tapes and Emma Woods testimony. Shocking. But I still believe the substance Jacob's abductees' stories but am sceptical about his ideas on what is happening.

Ufology is a dangerous subject. People have become unbalanced from it and I think this is because intense interest in ufology opens the mind to psychic intrusion - from the aliens themselves. I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded. I ignored them and they went away. I know for a fact that they can reach the minds of people who are obsessed with them or who, by whatever means, 'go' to them on a psychic level. This is what sightings are about; ufos appear to draw people's attention; to draw them in to the alien's influence. Sightings are a way of creating ufo consciousness.

But they do not want attention from everybody so they themselves engage in what GUT called the control mechanism. Part of this mechanism involves attacking and discrediting their own victims (Adamski? Meier?). In this way they create a kind of sieve; they draw many into awareness of their presence but most are sent away.

Maybe Jacobs has good reason to fear. Maybe he is under attack from these beings on a psychic level? Thanks again.

GUT wasn't referring to aliens when he used the term control mechanism. Has it occurred to you that these might be interdimensional entities of some sort and not ETs?

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: EnPassant
a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks for this Kandinsky, I stand corrected. I was only going by what I read years ago and did not follow up the story afterwards- welcome to the internet! I've listened to the tapes and Emma Woods testimony. Shocking. But I still believe the substance Jacob's abductees' stories but am sceptical about his ideas on what is happening.

Ufology is a dangerous subject. People have become unbalanced from it and I think this is because intense interest in ufology opens the mind to psychic intrusion - from the aliens themselves. I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded. I ignored them and they went away. I know for a fact that they can reach the minds of people who are obsessed with them or who, by whatever means, 'go' to them on a psychic level. This is what sightings are about; ufos appear to draw people's attention; to draw them in to the alien's influence. Sightings are a way of creating ufo consciousness.

But they do not want attention from everybody so they themselves engage in what GUT called the control mechanism. Part of this mechanism involves attacking and discrediting their own victims (Adamski? Meier?). In this way they create a kind of sieve; they draw many into awareness of their presence but most are sent away.

Maybe Jacobs has good reason to fear. Maybe he is under attack from these beings on a psychic level? Thanks again.

GUT wasn't referring to aliens when he used the term control mechanism. Has it occurred to you that these might be interdimensional entities of some sort and not ETs?

I know but these beings are part of the control mechanism as much as anybody else. They are 'interdimensional beings', yes. They are also biological. 'Interdimensional beings' simply means what is traditionally referred to as 'spirits'. There is no difference. Human beings are spirits, so are aliens. Human spirits have physical bodies, for a time. So do aliens.

a reply to: Kandinsky
The second place this hits home is that Temple is about a 15 minute drive from me and his ICAR office is about a mile away from a place I used to work in the mid 90s which is also near my favorite park that I still frequent. I have this feeling I might run into him one day. I have no idea what I would say or do...probably nothing. I most likely would run up to him and get my picture taken with him I would put it right next to my picture with Linda Moulton Howe.

originally posted by: EnPassant

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: EnPassant
a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks for this Kandinsky, I stand corrected. I was only going by what I read years ago and did not follow up the story afterwards- welcome to the internet! I've listened to the tapes and Emma Woods testimony. Shocking. But I still believe the substance Jacob's abductees' stories but am sceptical about his ideas on what is happening.

Ufology is a dangerous subject. People have become unbalanced from it and I think this is because intense interest in ufology opens the mind to psychic intrusion - from the aliens themselves. I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded. I ignored them and they went away. I know for a fact that they can reach the minds of people who are obsessed with them or who, by whatever means, 'go' to them on a psychic level. This is what sightings are about; ufos appear to draw people's attention; to draw them in to the alien's influence. Sightings are a way of creating ufo consciousness.

But they do not want attention from everybody so they themselves engage in what GUT called the control mechanism. Part of this mechanism involves attacking and discrediting their own victims (Adamski? Meier?). In this way they create a kind of sieve; they draw many into awareness of their presence but most are sent away.

Maybe Jacobs has good reason to fear. Maybe he is under attack from these beings on a psychic level? Thanks again.

GUT wasn't referring to aliens when he used the term control mechanism. Has it occurred to you that these might be interdimensional entities of some sort and not ETs?

I know but these beings are part of the control mechanism as much as anybody else. They are 'interdimensional beings', yes. They are also biological. 'Interdimensional beings' simply means what is traditionally referred to as 'spirits'. There is no difference. Human beings are spirits, so are aliens. Human spirits have physical bodies, for a time. So do aliens.

You realize that just making statements as if they were fact doesn't necessarily make them so, yes?

Has it occurred to you that these might be interdimensional entities of some sort and not ETs?

It is not either or. It is both. The phenomenon is taking place on two levels; it is 'spiritual' or psychic and it is also physical. Abductions are sometimes physical; the physical body is abducted. Other times the spirit is taken in the form of an Out Of Body experience or 'Astral Travel'. This dual nature of the thing makes things very confusing for people.

a reply to: EnPassant

They are 'interdimensional beings', yes. They are also biological. 'Interdimensional beings' simply means what is traditionally referred to as 'spirits'. There is no difference. Human beings are spirits, so are aliens. Human spirits have physical bodies, for a time. So do aliens.

Jacobs and Hopkins would disagree. John Mack would agree though.

In a recent podcast episode of Skeptiko, Dr David Jacobs is quoted as saying:
"This is not consciousness-raising; this is like consciousness denying. This is consciousness-lowering in a sense. So I don’t have any stake in this. It would be wonderful if it is. I think that John Mack was just dead wrong in his analysis of this. In fact, he tried and tried and tried to ram the abduction phenomenon into his preconceived ideas about consciousness and never could.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: EnPassant

No worries EP and I'm glad that you took the post in the spirit it was intended. Thanks

Ufology is a dangerous subject. People have become unbalanced from it and I think this is because intense interest in ufology opens the mind to psychic intrusion - from the aliens themselves. I myself have seen these beings and nobody will tell me I am deluded. I ignored them and they went away. I know for a fact that they can reach the minds of people who are obsessed with them or who, by whatever means, 'go' to them on a psychic level. This is what sightings are about; ufos appear to draw people's attention; to draw them in to the alien's influence. Sightings are a way of creating ufo consciousness.

I wrote a thread called 'Death by UFO' or something like that. It tried to address the same concerns you allude to here. You say 'aliens' where I'd prefer to think of the term as a placeholder until better terminology arises. It might be an unknown form of mental illness, brain lesions, an unknown intelligence or something else altogether. Hynek thought 'metaterrestrials,' Vallee says 'control system' and others say borderline personality disorder. Maybe it's all of them or none of them?

I don't usually get personal, but I'll come clean a little here. When I wrote the mentioned thread, it was during a long period where I had lost my way - a lot of unusual experiences plagued me for several months. I found my own way out of it and can put most of it down to skewed perception. Nevertheless, a few incidents will forever remain a mystery as they were physical and very contrived.

The outliers of anomalous experience beg for explanation if only to reassure us that all is well in the world. For you, me and anyone else who've had similar experiences, it's better not to dwell on them.

All the best

I think it's probably a combination of things including interdimensional entities of some sort that have probably always been "here", temporal lobe epilepsy, mental illness, government psy ops projects, natural phenomena and who knows what else. In some cases, it's possible that the mind has simply filled-in gaps, as it does, to make up for missing data and provide an acceptable (to some people) answer to something we experience that we can't explain.

A number of years ago, I was reading something about werewolves and decided to take a break and walk my dogs. It was late at night and there was a full moon. A cemetery was located near my home with nice walking paths (yes, I know) so I decided to walk my dogs there. In a clearing some distance away I saw something canine-shaped and, yes, for an instant, to my mind it was a werewolf. An instant later, it was a German Shepherd. I became concerned that one of my dogs would initiate a dog fight. The German Shepherd moved and it became clear that it was really a deer. Initially, my mind had simply not had enough information to go on and had filled-in the gaps creating the images in my mind of a werewolf and then a German Shepherd.

We don't always see that which we think we see. I am not suggesting that this explains all UFO and, especially, entity experiences but it may explain some in their entirety. Popular culture has a tremendous influence on people to the point that even small children can recognize and identify popular corporate logos like the Nike swoosh or MacDonald's golden arches. Everyone now has images come to mind when UFOs and ETs are mentioned. It is possible that when having an anomalous experience of some sort that "does not compute" the mind fills in the gaps and some people see the ETs of popular culture.

It is also possible that interdimensional entities (ultraterrestrials) have the ability to appear as they wish (or we see them as we wish). This would explain the old faerie stories and abductions as well modern UFO entities and abductions. The technology of these sightings and apparent abilities of these entities is always a bit ahead of that which the culture actually has but not so far advanced that it can't be described. Food for thought, anyway.

a reply to: penroc3

It's possible that Jacobs got lost in a self-confirmation feedback loop and wasn't able to find the way out. There's little or no doubt that he spent a lot of time in an 'echo-chamber' whereby too many fellow-travellers tended to agree with one another and lost the significance of opposing perspectives. Few, if any of them, had a foundation in psychology or scientific objectivity.

The Paratopia shows with Vaeni and Ritzman caught the lightning and gave expression to quality thinkers like Dr Tyler-Kokjohn and Dr S Lillienfield.

I'm not sure if any of those shows are still available. Last time I looked for a specific show, they were all gone. The best ones are saved and a few others weren't. So it goes...

This is not consciousness-raising; this is like consciousness denying. This is consciousness-lowering in a sense. So I don’t have any stake in this. It would be wonderful if it is. I think that John Mack was just dead wrong in his analysis of this. In fact, he tried and tried and tried to ram the abduction phenomenon into his preconceived ideas about consciousness and never could.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian
Mack was talking about positive consciousness, as if these beings (I call them aliens but read that as a placeholder of you like) were angels. This is what Mack is being criticized for by some people. They are not angels but consciousness, in general, is a component of this.

a reply to: Tangerine

I accept what you say about perception but the descriptions of the greys and many other things originated with abductees. But there is a feedback loop here; People describe aliens; aliens enter cultural imagery; the imagery opens consciousness to the aliens themselves; opened consciousness brings more aliens into the media; the media opens consciousness even more...

This is how consciousness works; images can be catalysts for sensitive minds. For some people merely reading a ufo book can open awareness to these beings. This is one of the central components in religion; religious imagery and ritual can direct consciousness to spiritual reality. Ufo imagery can direct it to the aliens. THIS IS WHY UFOS APPEAR; THEY ARE CREATING IMAGERY, MYTH, TO ATTRACT AWARENESS.