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Vethumanbeing: Lets say what you understand as God is just a field of energy, strong weak forces in expression; and informationally is made up of ones and zeros (this we understand).
Joecroft: Yeah!, this we understand YaY! wait a minute…(needle scratches the record shcwthrrrrr, followed by dead silence). Waduya mean “this we understand”… are you speaking for all of us…lol. If God is just a field of energy strong and weak etc, then God’s should be sprouting up all over the place, even in your household Washing Machines and Micro Waves etc.
Joecroft: the first one’s and zero’s in a vacuum; now surely those lowly ones and zeros, didn’t just organise themselves into Godhood by themselves, did they…? I like to think God is (Odstuff between the gaps, the stuff which organises, and that what lies between the 1s and 0s etc… Anyway, moving onto your main question.
Joecroft: But there is judgment, it’s called the “karmic Cycle/Law”, And Evil has to exist for freewill to be completely present. The ideal state is to have free will (which includes evil being present) but where people choose to live in the good i.e. in light and truth. It’s the Perfection within the imperfection.
Vethumanbeing: Is there enough of a future for us that "God" would continue to be interested (in ITSELF as us). Not a fatalist but come on; where is the tipping point when mankind joins the lemmings. Will mankind ever get another chance, perhaps in an alternate dimensional universe? Is there anything new that "God" is waiting for that we have yet to invent? I think its waiting for itself to respond.
Joecroft: When you go on slide/ride, you experience the ride in the moment, you have no need for remembering trigonometry, or for how many seconds there are in a minute etc…you just live for the moment/experience. It’s the same when your higher self goes to experience a new life below; there’s no need to be clinging on to all your previous past experiences, and higher knowledge and memories etc…, you can contemplate your whole life experience and past ones, when you get back up there…this is how I imagine we develop spiritually, either up the scale or down it, depending on our choices; So not exactly a complete reboot, from the higher perspective, but it certainly appears that way, from the lower perspective IMO.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Sure; why you distrust this understanding; 'god' is not made up of physical matter;
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Not trying to convince you of ITS existence; but I would recheck your washer machine (may have a mind of its own and birth a Prius you might not be able to pay taxes and insurance upon);
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
let faith take the reigns here (REALLY). I cannot speak for you; I will let your Pastor or Priest do that for you (name and number).
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I think you mean my MAIN ANSWER or implied; that you completely missed. We as humans are its expression; in the attempt to know its own being, allowing good and evil to thrive in an environment of non-judgment. You have a problem with this?
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Crying foul here; (I completely agree with you) this discussion is not about 'judgement' THAT IS A GIVEN in as much as EVERYTHING is allowed by your Creator Being. So; freewill is out of the window (not a player here). There is not supposed to be any perfection, without imperfection THERE IS NO GROWTH.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Did you pay money to have the ride of your life?
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I actually like the fact I understood Pythagorean Geometry (sacred geometry). I'm attempting to live in the moment (WHOA, this is hard) without my higher self yacking at me; as you say measuring seconds.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I know this wasn't directed at me in particular but you mentioned my post and I thought I'd clear the air.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Think of it like waves in the ocean, they rise and fall individually but as a whole the ocean is always there and always has been (metaphorically). We are the waves, God is the ocean. While every wave is unique in its own right, fundamentally they are all composed of the same "material", which is the ocean (God).
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
By "reboot" I mean that we (as the expressions of God with the fullness of him within us) are given a chance at a new start through reincarnation. Every time we are "born again", that is God "rebooting" on an individual basis.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I think born again can refer to both physical birth (conception) and spiritual birth (self-realization) at the same time. If you aren't born again spiritually within this lifetime (a.k.a. you live in ignorance until the day you die) then you must be born again physically for another shot at spiritual rebirth in your next life.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Like Jesus said, you must be born of both water (physically) and Spirit (self-realization) to enter (see) the Kingdom. We have all been born of water already, but only a few have been born of Spirit in this dark world. If you weren't born physically then you couldn't be born spiritually either. Both are a requirement in my opinion.
Rex282: Respectfully….at the very best you are anthropomorphizing the creator God and making them into the image of man as if they “needed” some mass and molecules to exist and experience Life.
The facts are …if there is a creator God their life existence is wholly outside of the material realm.Your suppositions is like Walt Disney needed Mickey Mouse,Donald Duck and Goofy and the whole cast of Disney characters Walt created in his mind then drew into animation to experience his “life” when the fact is Walts LIFE(spirit) was completely separate (holy)than his creations.
Rex282: Their life is completely different than Walts. Everything they do is “caused” by Walt “according” to their nature and character (their name)Mickey “acts” like Mickey and not like Donald or Goofy…and this is where the analogy (as do all anologies) breaks down HOWEVER it is grounded in Truth.
Rex282: Man can make choices by their “personal will” however that will is not free of cause.All the choices a person makes is according to their nature and character(their name) that THEY did not create only experienced.That is reflected in society and in the scriptures by the significance of what are called “names”…however just “calling” something by a name does not “change” it’s nature and character. As the Bard said “a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.”In other words things and people ARE what they are…THAT is what their “name” is and they “act” within the character of that name.
Rex282: The fact is Walt is NOT Mickey.Walt could “put” some of himself “into” Mickey but they are not even “close” to being the same.Mickey is COMPLETELY dependent on Walt for every aspect of his 2 Dimensional life yet Walt is not dependent on Mickey at all.He can erase Mickey and friends with a flick of his wrist or crumple up his 2D world and toss it in the waste basket all without Mickey being aware of his circumstances .
Rex282: If Walt was truly “THE creator” of ALL things and not just Disney world he could could cause Mickey to BE alive.The only boundaries would be the ones Walt created.Time and space or whatever dimensions or constructs Walt willed would be under Walts control and would be from a completely different perspective than the worlds he creates.If the creator formed time and space in such a way that the true perception of it can not be known except from the outside that would be much more reasonable than the religious- spiritual -mystic perception looking through a multitude of fish bowls with reality being bent out of perspective and distorted with the multitude of belief in faith of Belief System religions.
Rex282: If the creator created a creation that was so extensive it could not be accurately measured(observed) that would be a HUGE clue that the beings living in it are completely blind to the REAL reality.Every reasonable scientist knows they know next to nothing about the physical realm which CAN be measured in part.How much less can NOT be known about a realm that can not be perceived AT ALL!! yet billions “believe” they do.
Rex282: They form “doctrines” of belief and call it Truth when it is anything but the Truth.Mankind knows LESS about the creator God than Mickey knows about Walt!!Mickey doesn’t have ANY tenants of “belief” about Walt.He doesn’t “pray” to Walt.He hasn’t made a Walt in his image.Mickey doesn’t believe Walt is experiencing life through him.Mickey is just living his 2D life completely unaware of Walt at all.
Rex282: The fact is the constructs of religion-spiritualism-mysticism would be the last method the creator God would use to communicate Truth because it is ALL completely subjective and that CAN NOT be the nature and character of the creator God at all.They would have to be 100% objective Truth….no”interpretation” at all.The scripture name for that is “I will be what I will be”.Mankind can not say that about themselves and be speaking Truth only the creator God can.
Rex282: for the creator God to experience “life” through it’s creation like humanity would be like
a man(Michelangelo) experiencing their life through a piece of art (the sculpture of David) they created.It’s backwards and sideways simultaneously.He chipped the image of David out of stone.The stone had ZERO life in it until it was formed into an image and even then that is all it is….a stone image.
Rex282: One day when man is “fully formed” in phi/Phi(a golden ratio that NEVER resolves) they too WILL experience LIFE….and they won’t be the creator God however they will KNOW Life.That’s the Good News.
originally posted by: michaelbrux
at the end of the day...it MUST be about you somehow?
that belief hasn't ended and will probably continue one for thousands of years.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Jesus also refers to the Spirit as wind in John 3:8, a few verses after saying you have to be born again. What is wind? Air"flow", it flows just as water does, but the Spirit is not water, it only mirrors the waters attributes and vice versa just as the physical world mirrors our inner Spirit.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Why would Jesus say water "and" Spirit if water IS the Spirit? Are there two Spirits or just one? If only one (Holy Spirit) then why is Jesus repeating himself?
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
In my opinion he is differentiating the two as opposite yet mirror images of one another, needing both a physical and spiritual birth in order to know the Kingdom.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Both happen at birth but the world corrupts our understanding, which is why Jesus told us to change and be like little children again, a time before the world overtook us. A baby knows the Kingdom better than anyone, they live in the moment unlike our adult lives here on Earth. So I disagree that babies cannot know or understand the Kingdom.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What two components are needed for waves to be created and for the waters to become "living waters"? Both wind (Spirit) and water (material). Jesus is saying born again in both a physical and spiritual sense in my opinion.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What of those who are never born again spiritually in this life? Must they not be born again physically to have another chance at being born again spiritually?
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Water "and" Spirit.
Ocean "and" wind.
Body "and" soul.
Mother "and" Father.
When the two come together you get the "wave" or Son of God. When both the air and water flow, you get living waters that "flow" (air/water mirror) out of your belly.
I'm only explaining my reasoning, not trying to prove you wrong.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'm only explaining my reasoning, not trying to prove you wrong.
I understand your reasoning 100%, he leans heavily toward the spiritual aspect of the teaching because he was giving inner insight, not outward. There is a mirror meaning physically through reincarnation and its inevitability. It "must" (be born of water...) happen and without it there is no spiritual rebirth/gnosis either
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Lets say what you understand as God is just a field of energy, strong weak forces in expression; and informationally is made up of ones and zeros (this we understand). We as humans are its expression; in the attempt to know its own being, allowing good and evil to thrive in an environment of non-judgment. You would think after all that had been experienced by mankind/animals, flora would spell there is an anticipated end to this experiment (those being anything you can possibly think of: past, wars, attrition, scholarship, strife, organized religion too many to name), to the present. Is there enough of a future for us that "God" would continue to be interested (in ITSELF as us). Not a fatalist but come on; where is the tipping point when mankind joins the lemmings. Will mankind ever get another chance, perhaps in an alternate dimensional universe? Is there anything new that "God" is waiting for that we have yet to invent? I think its waiting for itself to respond. Greatest conspiracy ever. God says to the human "Why don't you show me you love me", Human says "Show me you exist first, then I might have a reason to".
Michaelbrux: at the end of the day...it MUST be about you somehow?
that belief hasn't ended and will probably continue one for thousands of years.
NoCorruptionAllowed: I am glad you can see that too.. The OP makes his blatant repetition of this theme in all posts and threads. The answer to all of his questions and problems is to simply remove his prideful satanic coat of self importance first, then his eyes could begin to see. But shame would surly follow, and he couldn't bear it. So sad to see pride do that to folks.
akushla99: Nice question.
As expression in sim cities, we're more like unattended avatars (you've alluded to this VHB)...I dislike the analogy, but, the hardware takes its own course - evolving, developing, mutating...the software has built-in fuzzz that ignites on contact with catalysing 'other' expressions (maybe split personalities competing for ir/rational moments)
akushla99: - I don't think the experiment is over by a long shot, dimensionwise...the conditions have always been there for 'random' acts of destruction of epic scale (blue marble style) and it may come to pass, but I think you're on the money with the sense of abandonment, maroonededness...CEO doesn't actually 'check-in', doesn't need to...generals and underlings are in attendance...they're playing a percentages game on the CEOs behalf, not so much tipping scales (like fundies would have us think)...slow and steady winning the race, gotta know our ABCs before writing that Ancient Mariner tale...too much information racing through brains...Walt had it down Aesop style (maybe reincarnate - Grimm not so much) I see myself as Goofy.
vethumanbeing:
Sure; why you distrust this understanding; 'god' is not made up of physical matter.
Joecroft: “Distrust!!!”…“Distrust”, is not the word I would use, more like “incomplete definition/information”; (although maybe that’s your point i.e. God trying to define itself through us…etc) not that I’m expecting you to write a 5000 word page essay, to describe IT, or anything..But if I understand you correctly, you’re not saying that strong and weak forces just randomly crash/interact together, thereby producing God/Consciousness i.e. a substance which comes alive…right…? (tell me it aint true Vet…)
vethumanbeing:
Not trying to convince you of ITS existence; but I would recheck your washer machine (may have a mind of its own and birth a Prius you might not be able to pay taxes and insurance upon)
Joecroft: No, convince away…don’t let me stop ya…
I got a question though; if my washer machine produces a Prius, what will my Microwave produce…? Hopefully something a little cheaper to run…lol
vethumanbeing:
let faith take the reigns here (REALLY). I cannot speak for you; I will let your Pastor or Priest do that for you (name and number).
Joecroft: “Faith”… ”Faith is for Nuns and Amateurs” lol…
And if you’ve seen that episode, there’s another great quote thrown in there, which goes…
“You think…?…I need someone who knows"
vethumanbeing:
I think you mean my MAIN ANSWER or implied; that you completely missed. We as humans are its expression; in the attempt to know its own being, allowing good and evil to thrive in an environment of non-judgment. You have a problem with this?
Joecroft: Your “OP title” was a question, but in your OP you kind of answered it (why would anyone do that lol)… I guess I thought you were answering the question, while simultaneously looking for further clarification (from others) on your own answer too it…my bad!!! lol
The only thing I have a problem with, is the line “allowing good and evil to thrive”…I wouldn’t use the word “thrive”; I would replace it with the word “exist”…other than that…no real problems at all…
vethumanbeing
Did you pay money to have the ride of your life?
Joecroft: Can you re-phrase the question lol…
No wait, I’ll attempt to have a go at it…Well No; it shouldn’t really be about money, or lust (how did that get in there lol) it should be about “pure love” and freedom to live/learn/love etc.
vethumanbeing:
I actually like the fact I understood Pythagorean Geometry (sacred geometry). I'm attempting to live in the moment (WHOA, this is hard) without my higher self yacking at me; as you say measuring seconds.
Joecroft: you recognized my subtle hints of Trig and Time, and took measures to decipher their meanings. Yes, Trig, Pyth10N and Sacred Geometry are important in setting up the conditions to have the experience, but not necessary (unless you’re building a Temple) to know/remember while your living the experience…As for time, it’s your lower self which is inclined to measure (keep an eye on it) it, but your higher-self says “I have all the time I need”
originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing
That is my entire point, and it is not to berate you in any way, only to persuade you into looking at things without expecting it to all be for your benefit. You make it all seem like you are still owed perfection like a gift you are waiting for, because you deserve it. I'm not trying to break your proverbial junk, although I know I can make it sure look that way. Apologies for that..
I might not even be seeing your intent as you meant it to be seen. Like hearing you speak in person has much less chance of being misinterpreted.. I am for you, not against you, although my style of writing leaves a lot to be desired. (I know)