The Military Weakness of Europe: A Serious Global Security Concern

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

I dont think so. Because Money talkes and thats is it. If the EU members change side, who is going to make them pay?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

I think so to. If Russia invades the EU. The US can not Counter, because that means all out Nuclear.

That was the Russian tactic in Georgia. The US had to stay on the sideline and just bark.

EDIT: Where ever the US are fighting a war. The Russians can not Counter. If you are first in you are safe.

Russia Challenged the US in Syria and forced the US to step Down because the EU would not give support.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Britguy

The world is NOT America and the time is coming when many Americans are going to have to face up to the fact that many in Europe don't wish to follow American orders any more.

Last time I checked the US wasn't part of Europe, although most want to think the US tells the world what to do...we don't we make suggestions.

One suggestion being that Europe signs the latest trade deal wherein if a European government passes a law that interrupts american profits, that government can be sued?

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

I think so to. If Russia invades the EU. The US can not Counter, because that means all out Nuclear.

That was the Russian tactic in Georgia. The US had to stay on the sideline and just bark.

The U.S. only goes to war against countries were it can guarantee the outcome.

Against Russia it would be a huge gamble. Not one The U.S. would take, unless it was directly attacked by The Russians.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

I think so to. If Russia invades the EU. The US can not Counter, because that means all out Nuclear.

That was the Russian tactic in Georgia. The US had to stay on the sideline and just bark.

The U.S. only goes to war against countries were it can guarantee the outcome.

Against Russia it would be a huge gamble. Not one The U.S. would take, unless it was directly attacked by The Russians.

The US are sweeping up nations to expand their empier. It is logical that they go after the easy once first.

It isnt Russia that are getting closer to US/NATO. It is the US/NATO who are expanding closer to Russia. Soon there will be a red line.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

The one war you can bet the US is going to join is a Russian attack on Western Europe. It is the war the US has always trained for, is most prepared for, would have massive popular support, not to mention in NATO an attack on one is and attack on all so a Russian invasion would be an attack on the US. Also the US and fought the Red Army in Russia after WW1.

a reply to: projectvxn

There is no concern here

What would europe do with its military might? Go help the us to rape prisoners in abu grahip, perform wast crimes against humanity?

No thank you, unless we get better politicians in europe, the answer to this is no. Th us are just monsters, mass murderers on a galactic scale. And currently we have no people capable of seeing the other side of the fence and thus, not capable of anything but put europe in future danger. Us is not the future, it is already a dead nation, and the thoughts here are to use europe as a proxy for us military affairs, which in return will ruin europe.

Until eu has thrown away its shackles with the us and britain, any military campaign on its part, will just be another afghanistan, vietnam, korea ... A mass murder of children and women, in the name of criminally insane americans.

People who cannot see both sides of an equation, like the us ... Should not be allowed to play the role of a superpower. And people like the us, who wage wars on an adjective,and waver its economy based on crimes, opium sales and bank robbery. Are not a future to rely upon.

The end of the us is already at the making ... And i for one, do not wish for europe to go with it.

Europe has already seen its fill, of napoleons, and hitlers, stalins and the like. Just because the mass murderers are americans, does not make it OK.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

The one war you can bet the US is going to join is a Russian attack on Western Europe. It is the war the US has always trained for, is most prepared for, would have massive popular support, not to mention in NATO an attack on one is and attack on all so a Russian invasion would be an attack on the US. Also the US and fought the Red Army in Russia after WW1.

The U.S. was not in a one-on-one conflict with Russia after WW 1, but part of a multi-national force.

Unless U.S. borders are under direct attack from Russia, The U.S. would not take on The Russians.

The U.S. signed an agreement to protect Ukraine in the event of Russian invasion.
They didn't honour it.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

The one war you can bet the US is going to join is a Russian attack on Western Europe. It is the war the US has always trained for, is most prepared for, would have massive popular support, not to mention in NATO an attack on one is and attack on all so a Russian invasion would be an attack on the US. Also the US and fought the Red Army in Russia after WW1.

The US had their chance in the Syrian conflict. The US backed Down.

The Syrian conflict showed the US that Russia wont back Down any more. The Unkraine showdown proves it to.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Just because the mass murderers are americans, does not make it OK.

And who says it is?

a reply to: alldaylong

The U.S. signed an agreement to protect Ukraine in the event of Russian invasion.

And Russia signed the same one...

According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, "if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[12][13]

en.wikipedia.org...

And yet nobody is up in arms at Russia for pretty much ignoring the treaty all together...why is that?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h


Russia is using millitary Power because the US are using covert political tactics With the Ukrainian government. The US have taken over the Ukrainan government by helping a specific political party to take Power by force.

Non of what the US are doing is being covered in western media. Why is that?

a reply to: spy66

Russia is using millitary Power because the US are using covert political tactics With the Ukrainian government. The US have taken over the Ukrainan government by helping a specific political party to take Power by force.

No, Russia is using military power because Putin is trying to bring the old Russian Federation back together again and those countries don't want that which is why they ask for help from the US.

And no they didn't help a specific party by force as the Ukraine people elected the candidate that wasn't backed by the US. And remember not one specific party has taken the power by force.

Non of what the US are doing is being covered in western media. Why is that?

I am not sure what you think the US is doing, but first you would need to prove the US was behind this, and second you would have to prove the US was behind this.

You do understand that before this is a story there has to be proof of it happening and without proof there is nothing to report.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

The one war you can bet the US is going to join is a Russian attack on Western Europe. It is the war the US has always trained for, is most prepared for, would have massive popular support, not to mention in NATO an attack on one is and attack on all so a Russian invasion would be an attack on the US. Also the US and fought the Red Army in Russia after WW1.

The U.S. was not in a one-on-one conflict with Russia after WW 1, but part of a multi-national force.

Unless U.S. borders are under direct attack from Russia, The U.S. would not take on The Russians.

The U.S. signed an agreement to protect Ukraine in the event of Russian invasion.
They didn't honour it.

The US signed and agreement to call a meeting at the UN if Ukraine were attacked with or threatened with a nuclear weapon. The treaty had no defense or military clauses as Bush Sr. and Clinton were told Congress would not aprove it if it did. And Ukraine did not push for it because Russia was a friend. And the US would take on Russia if it attacked NATO. Period. Of course that would be part of a multi-national force so in your book that would not count.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spy66

You never know how the future will play out.

Capitulation and relying on others to protect you can cost you dearly.

If Russia declared war on Western Europe, The U.S. would back off anyway.

The U.S. and Russia have never been at war in a direct conflict. Unlike most of Europe.

The one war you can bet the US is going to join is a Russian attack on Western Europe. It is the war the US has always trained for, is most prepared for, would have massive popular support, not to mention in NATO an attack on one is and attack on all so a Russian invasion would be an attack on the US. Also the US and fought the Red Army in Russia after WW1.

The US had their chance in the Syrian conflict. The US backed Down.

The Syrian conflict showed the US that Russia wont back Down any more. The Unkraine showdown proves it to.

The US had thier chance for what in Syria? To attack Syria? What does that have to do with Russia other than Russia sold Assads supposed non existant chemical weapons out to the US so it would not lose an arms market. An act that made Iran see that Russia would sell them out just as fast so they approached the US on thier own.

Of course the US is no bombing in Syria despite Assad and Russia saying they should not be. Not like they could stop them if they tried anyway.

I honestly didn't intend for this thread to turn into a Europe/America bashing thread.

How absolutely ridiculous that we can't have a conversation based upon the points brought up in the OP.

The most serious Global Security Concern is the US Foreign Policy and its paranoia and contempt for some other nations.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I agree with the European view in some regards, but I also believe that Europeans should renew their militaries and pull their own weight, as an European myself I for one am very happy that the US is around. Maybe not too happy with all the wars but I can't say Europeans are blameless with a straight face, we've been involved in it all.

It's just a shame that it seems that both the European and US higher echelons of power have been compromised for the longest.

originally posted by: projectvxn
I honestly didn't intend for this thread to turn into a Europe/America bashing thread.

How absolutely ridiculous that we can't have a conversation based upon the points brought up in the OP.

Of course we cannot agree since our views of what Europe needs is completely different.

The EU figures appear to dwindle even further. The Americans spent approximately $645.7 billion on defense last year compared with $280.1 billion spend in Europe.

We still spend 280 billions in this example and that is not enough? Talk about slanting towards the military industrial complex.

1. You want Europe to support US with it's wars and pay the bill for it and buy arms for a possible Russian threat.
2. Many on this thread say no way and that we only need defense for worst case militia attacks like ISIS and that grand scale invasions will not happen to Europe.

You think the Russians are an aggressive force but do not see that real Russian aggression without good reasons/propaganda will not work. Right now Putin have the Russian people trust because he is seen as a person standing up to a great bully. Invading any country without there being Russian people to save would destroy the sense of the Russian people being just in their actions.

Putin is flexing to make sure Nato see that he is not a lamb to slaughter and that it would be foolish to attack him or his allies Syria/Iran.

And to put it in numbers:
8. Germany
> Military expenditure: $49.3 billion
7. United Kingdom
> Military expenditure: $56.2 billion
5. France
> Military expenditure: $62.3 billion
3. Russia
> Military expenditure: $84.9 billion

247wallst.com...

We are already spending more money on Military than Russia as you can see.