The Military Weakness of Europe: A Serious Global Security Concern

a reply to: LittleByLittle

UK/France/Germany would still be allies and keep Europe safe and EU would still be there.

I said NATO would fall apart. It cannot sustain itself without US money and hardware. It simply cant. NATO requirements state that NATO signatories contribute 2% of GDP to military spending. Most NATO allies can't even do that.

Dear lord did anyone even bother to read the sources and links I put out?

The biggest reason we have problem with Russia in EU is because of US meddling in Syria/Iran/Russia/Ukraine for economic reasons and trying to get gas/oil under control for Saudi Arabian interest.

This comment is so astoundingly ignorant of military history I don't even find it worthy of addressing its many fallacious tenets.

If one thing this thread has proven is that Europeans are happy to use US military strength in order to keep their military costs outsourced and not have to take responsibility for their own defense AND they are all too happy to blame the US for the sorry state of their militaries.

How absolutely absurd.

a reply to: projectvxn

I said NATO would fall apart. It cannot sustain itself without US money and hardware. It simply cant. NATO requirements state that NATO signatories contribute 2% of GDP to military spending. Most NATO allies can't even do that.

Many people seem to have the wrong idea about NATO and how they work, but you are in fact right about NATO needing the US and it's support which in a way really is beneficial to each other.

The thing I wonder is how will the US fare if we lose that base of income...I know we would survive but what would the fallout be?

Sorry I strayed a bit there but one does wonder about that.

a reply to: projectvxn

Ah! Starting to feel unloved because us Europeans seem like ungrateful oiks?

Seriously, take your military out of our countries and leave us to our doom in that case, we'd all welcome it.

I am sorry, but your posts just drip with so much American arrogance it's laughable. We'd all be doomed if it wasn't for America, blah blah blah!

Disband NATO and us Europeans will deal with it quite nicely. America can then go fight it's own created conflicts and leave us the hell out of it, thank you very much!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Since European countries aren't willing to contribute to their own defense, in the very likely event that the US economy collapses, so would the strength of NATO. There would be nothing left to hold off any invasion, nothing left to respond to military emergencies.

a reply to: projectvxn

If one thing this thread has proven is that Europeans are happy to use US military strength in order to keep their military costs outsourced and not have to take responsibility for their own defense AND they are all too happy to blame the US for the sorry state of their militaries.

What's even worse is the fact we are expected to be the savior when something bad happens. Just once it would be interesting to see the US just say No to helping out another country...monetarily or militarily.

a reply to: Britguy

Ah! Starting to fee3l unloved because us Europeans seem like ungrateful oiks?

Seriously, take your military out of our countries and leave us to our doom in that case, we'd all welcome it.

This is an overly simplistic and thoughtless response.

Disband NATO and us Europeans will deal with it quite nicely.

NATO is on its way to collapsing as an organization anyway.

But after everything posted in the OP, the notion that European countries will be able to respond to military emergencies in a fashion that would guarantee victory is laughable.

America can then go fight it's own created conflicts and leave us the hell out of it, thank you very much!

Emoticons and childish politically charged quips don't address European military problems.

a reply to: projectvxn

There would be nothing left to hold off any invasion, nothing left to respond to military emergencies.

Well I hope that doesn't happen, but if it ever does I hope they enjoy cheap Russian vodka and Chinese food.

a reply to: projectvxn

Iraq/Libya and all other Arab spring where Wahabbi/salafi where inserted for Saudi Arabian Interest with the help of US military. It seems you are the one who have no clue what have been going on for the last 2 decades.

But then you are the kind who is so uniformed that you do not know Saudi Arabia is part of the Wahabbi/salafi problem that US keep hunting in ISIS or other fundamentalist form.

To much FOX news I guess.

a reply to: projectvxn

But after everything posted in the OP, the notion that European countries will be able to respond to military emergencies in a fashion that would guarantee victory is laughable.

Only really one country that may be able to do that but at a very limited way would be Israel ( and I know they aren't considered Europe technically), but they don't seem to be scared to go full on militarily when it needs to be.

And just for those who think this...I am not condoning what Israel does, they just have a military that doesn't play games.

As for others...there may be a few but that is a very few that could handle problems in that way.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Iraq/Libya and all other Arab spring where Wahabbi/salafi where inserted for Saudi Arabian Interest with the help of US military. It seems you are the one who have no clue what have been going on for the last 2 decades.

What does this have to do with European military readiness?

But then you are the kind who is so uniformed that you do not know Saudi Arabia is part of the Wahabbi/salafi problem that US keep hunting in ISIS or other fundamentalist form

Again...What does this have to do with European military readiness, and the unilateral slashing trend of military budgets that have plagued individual European countries for decades?

To much FOX news I guess.

What does FOX news have to do with anything I have spoken of? I didn't even use them as a source.

a reply to: projectvxn

What does FOX news have to do with anything I have spoken of? I didn't even use them as a source.

If your an American that seems to be where your supposed to get your news.

originally posted by: projectvxn

NATO is on its way to collapsing as an organization anyway.

But after everything posted in the OP, the notion that European countries will be able to respond to military emergencies in a fashion that would guarantee victory is laughable.

Why wouldn't we be able to respond to anything? Your arrogance is astounding!

Emoticons and childish politically charged quips don't address European military problems.

How are we meant to respond to such arrogant and childish assertions?
Your position that without the USA we'd all be flailing helplessly waiting for the USA to step in and save us all is astoundingly funny.

Seriously, take all your military from our shores and leave us to our doom...please!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I am American and FOX news like everything else on cable is garbage.

Except for AMC and only because they have The Walking Dead...

But back on topic.

a reply to: Britguy

Why wouldn't we be able to respond to anything? Your arrogance is astounding!

The NATO secretary is European.. He's the one ringing alarm bells. He has unique insight into this situation that I wish I had.

How are we meant to respond to such arrogant and childish assertions?

My assertions are based entirely on credible reports and issues that have been well documented for quite some time.

Your position that without the USA we'd all be flailing helplessly waiting for the USA to step in and save us all is astoundingly funny.

I have not made that assertion.

What I did say is that NATO cannot function militarily without the US, which is a fact.

I also said that European militaries are currently underfunded, poorly equipped, and incapable of responding to military crises. Also a fact as well as the view shared by military leaders around the world.

Seriously, take all your military from our shores and leave us to our doom...please!

Please stop trying to make this something it isn't.

Interesting conversation and true that most european countries don't even contribute the 2% expected. UK is interesting as we have always looked towards the US for our security/military relationships (and to Europe for our economy). Meanwhile US can use the UK as a reliable foothold into Europe.

But I agree that the might of the US overwhelms NATO.

a reply to: projectvxn

FOX news like everything else on cable is garbage.

Except for AMC and only because they have The Walking Dead...

Can't argue with you there.

a reply to: templar knight

The might of the US is going to pull itself inward. There WILL come a day when the US must regress from the rest of the world.

Personally I welcome that day. But for my European brothers and sisters, whom I have taken up arms with, if the continued trend of disarmament continues they will be opening themselves up to some serious threats.

It is something I expect to see within a decade if people don't start taking a critical look at this instead of trying to propagandize, politicize, and ostracize.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: projectvxn

FOX news like everything else on cable is garbage.

Except for AMC and only because they have The Walking Dead...

Can't argue with you there.

Who can argue with the Walking Dead?

a reply to: projectvxn

Maybe Europeans should just disband NATO as it stands right now and take care of their own business, without American inclusion. Lets face it, recent NATO action has been to simply prop us US led aggression to spread the cost and attempt to give some legitimacy to US led assaults, even if it goes against International Law.

The fact that some Euro flunky says we need to spend more is nothing more than protectionism and giving the US what they want, at the expense of taxpayers in Europe. It is not needed, nor is it in our interests to fight in American led wars. NATO, as an extension of the US military machine DOES NOT fight wars to protect Europeans, as we have seen in recent history.

So, why should we bankrupt ourselves and cut services to other more urgent and needy recipients just to please the USA?

Here in the UK we always have that "special relationship" BS shoved down our throats, which equates to nothing more than a subservient role to US overseers. It's about bloody time we terminated that deal and sent them packing and deal with our own issues in a way that suits the people of this country, NOT the USA.

Increasing military spend is pointless when we don't have any wars to fight or enemies trying to invade us. All it does is feed the machine, which needs those wars, and will create them to keep the profits coming in.
The scare stories of reds under the bed, Islamic bogeymen and other such threats are often fictional and not based in reality, or are so overblown it's comical. Those pushing the narrative all have a stake in pushing it for financial or political gain!

a reply to: projectvxn

Who can argue with the Walking Dead?

All the shows losing to it in the ratings.

Sorry about going off topic there. I have to say this is really an interesting thread it makes you think what if, and the if doesn't look good if things don't change for the world.