Hammond Police Break Through Car Window and Taze Passenger with Kids in Back Seat

Just another case of driving while black and stupid. Lawsuits going to go nowhere but sounds good till people watch the video. The laborer I just got rid of kept whining about getting pulled over about a burnt out headlight. Well fix the damn thing instead of whining about the cops pulling you over because your black

Waiting for the window smashing / tasing of the the young white guys playing smart ass at the check points by refusing to show ID or get out of vehicle. After all, smash and grab of people by police seems to be acceptable.

The police electrocution of public does seem a bit Orwellian to say the least. 277 people in the United States have died from Tasers between 2001-2007 so it is a life threatening device so it should only be used when life is at risk. Police in video look like they are in risk of dying from boredom, don't they have real criminals to catch?

a reply to: Domo1

You are right.

It's about control.

But I know that's not what you were implying... LOL!

a reply to: AnteBellum

The solution to this institutional madness is an technique used little in the US because historically our officials and authoritarian people are supposed to behave rationally. The solution is very simple and elegant and comes from the principles of communism, if I dare say. The remedy is citizen committees galore, informed citizen committees that watch over every aspect of government which can go haywire, local and national composed of informed individuals from all walks of American, committees with power and teeth, not mere issuers of reports.

Of course, the burden of that remedy falls upon the shoulders of the public. It requires work, a willing to contribute to the greater good. Will it happen? Naw! So we descend into a fascist state of triggered by distrust of the intentions of virtually all authority figures in our lives and most easily recognized by police officers dead set on obtaining their will from non-compliant citizens. And a few citizens act out in anger or irrationality.

(I need to get this on its way without editing otherwise I'll probably delete it as too wild.)

a reply to: kosmicjack

I think it's very much about control.

originally posted by: charles1952
There is no evidence here that the police were mindless, impatient, or excessively vicious.

I think sometimes the only way to make sense of things like this is to step back and look at the big picture instead of focusing on the details...

Police presence 'increased and intimidating'

When Hamilton police shot and killed 45-year-old former steelworker Steve Mesic earlier this month he became the fourth person fatally shot in controntation with police in the last seven years.

In the seven years before that, the number of people fatally shot by police was zero.

"Police tactics have changed, and I can say that as a person living downtown and seeing how they deal with people. It has become far more repressive and with a greater show of force."

Consider:

• Violent crime in Hamilton dropped 19.1 per cent from 2010 to the end of 2012
• A police officer pointed a gun at someone 145 times in 2012 compared to 91 times in 2008
• Officers struck someone 35 times in 2012 as opposed to 13 times in 2008
• Police used conducted energy weapons (Tasers) 50 times in 2012 versus 35 times in 2008
• All told, Hamilton police officers used force 403 times in 2012, compared to 271 times in 2008
• In 2008, there were 787 officers on the force. In 2012, there were 784

Are Hamilton police quicker to resort to force?

I don't agree with the behavior of the parents here, but the cop could've at least warned the kids to get away from the window and cover their faces. Even so, if glass had gotten in one of the kids eyes, it would've been the boyfriend's fault for being too chickensh!t to get out of the truck. I'll take a beating before risking the safety of my kids.

Shame on everyone involved.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Dear Sheepslayer247,

You're an ATS legend, so I went back and rethought my posts and my attitudes in this thread. You deserve the very best I can produce.

From the first page alone:

I don't like where this is going and can only wonder how large this out of hand situation is going to get before we either fight back with force or succumb to it.

I have lost my respect for the system, not just from this but what I've seen and lived through. From corrupt judges to bad cops the system has to come to some type of new legislation that involves community and rationality. This man was no threat, they may have been argumentative but did not deserve to be taken down like wild game to be tagged.

Jesus Christ! A new one every day! How sickening! Something must be done about this

He should have the right to shoot to kill this officer. I would shoot to kill anyone who directly puts my or my childs life in danger. A badge does matter and neither does his authority as WE THE PEOLPLE GAVE HIM THAT AUTHORITY AND SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TAKE IT AWAY. His life is forfeit when he does not take the lifes of others into consideration.

"You can get out an take a beating or you can get pulled out an take a beating."

Obviously guilty of driving while black.

Who needs ISIS showing up here when we have government employees such as these.

Sociopath bullies have been given positions of authority and free use of deadly force to use as they please.

Get a lawyer and sue the police for 100 billion dollars. Only when money is involved will there ever be a change.

it was a simple seat belt violation that predicated this outrage, just like the poor guy who was shot in South Carolina. In other words, driving while black.

I looked at this and thought, this must be something special to get such racist anger stirred up even among high ranking staff. There must be something here I need to explore (I almost always stay out of these).

I watched the video, read the source article, and read what the Department released as a statement. This is what I have as a conclusion, realizing (as almost none of our posters do) that we don't have enough information to make a final decision..

1.) The stop was legal. Talk about racism, pretense, or whatever, nobody seems to be arguing that the seat belt stop was illegal.

2.) The request for identification was legal.

3.) The requirement that he get out of the car was probably legal, it depends on some circumstances we don't have.

4.) The taking him from the car, same analysis as 3.)

If you're curious, I'll show some of the cases that indicate that if the officers are eventually found to be in the wrong, it will not be an easy thing to prove.

My biggest difficulties with the thread are two-fold. One, is that people are ignoring (if they're even reading it) the Department statement to the press. Two, is that everyone is convinced, based on wildly incomplete evidence, that we now need violence in the streets, the police are racist, there's no excuse for this kind of behavior, etc.

This is not a discussion, it's a lynch mob.

Now, there seems to be two questions about the police behavior. One, is should the police have just let them drive away? I'm really reluctant to say yes to that. The passenger was playing the jerk role to perfection. Who could have known what the situation really was when the police stopped the car. Did he have a gun on his person? In the back? Why was he acting so strangely? Was it worth finding out what was going on? Maybe it's a tough call, but I lean towards resolving the issue.

Two, should they have used force, to include the Tazer, to get him out. I don't know how long they had tried to get him out by words alone, but the press statement draws a timeline that indicates they had been trying for about a quarter of an hour. He wasn't coming out nicely, and the police couldn't get to him. He had refused to roll down the window.

I think a fair case could be made that this was a Terry stop, and they had the right to do an external pat down of him. Maybe a court will say no, but it's not an obvious decision. So, how do they get him out? How long does it take before the mother starts calling her friends and the press and whoever else wants to sight see. It will eventually become a real circus with bigger problems.

On the surface, the Tazer seems like it might have been questionable, on the other hand it's a very dangerous moment when the cop is reaching into the car, blocking his backup, and the passenger starts moving towards him. I don't know. I don't like the Tazer, but he hadn't been cooperative yet, and it's not obviously unreasonable.

What I still object to, is how we re handling the thread in the face of very scanty information. It still sounds like trying to get a crowd turned into a mob. Perhaps unintentionally, but that's what it looks like from here.

With respect,
Charles1952

If this was about public safety (this man is a danger), and not their egos, then they would have had the woman and children exit the vehicle. A gun? So if they get shot (other occupants) it's OK? He then gets the exit or get dragged out. They didn't have concern about the other occupants.

a reply to: AnteBellum

Wow... that was totally unnecessary! That glass went everywhere!

This is our new America and these are our so called protectors.

I like they drew guns when he reached for his information. Scared much?

Every time I've ever been pulled over or been with someone who has been pulled over no one but the driver had to give ID. I'm white.

a reply to: roadgravel

The mother should have had the sense to understand their reaction when her boyfriend reached into his backpack to retrieve his ID. Who keeps their ID in a backpack? As soon as a gun was drawn, her and the kids should have gotten out of the truck. None of the adults in this situation seemed to be concerned with the safety of the kids.

a reply to: Bone75
Thanks for posting this. I had to walk away from computer, go to the back door and scream after watching it.
I'm not joking. If I wrote my feelings right now I'd be banned so I'm going to just say that I had to fetch my husband to watch it. We encountered the same type of attitude by a local PD for the same offense but lucky for us, we're white. My husband had no ID on him. It was the first time I'd ever had a cop ask a passenger for ID. When my husband asked the cop why he needed ID, the cop said that they needed to check and make sure there weren't any warrants on him. My husband's reply was something to the effect of, "Oh, do you have a lot of warrants out on 75 year-old retired English professors?" (One of the cops knew both of us quite well.)
For our seat belt stop there were two officer units and the K-9 unit---a total of five cops and they held us there over 20 minutes---and threatened to take us to jail---for seat belt violations!
Had they damaged my car the way they did this one, I'd be in court asking for damages, you betcha! As it was I went to their boss and filed my complaint in person and followed up with a registered letter just in case my first complaint got "lost."
Anytime a LEO disrespects a citizen, they should be reported to their superior---immediately sit down and write up your version of the incident. Be civil but firm when making your complaint. Don't sink to their level and go all bowed up and shouting---be firm and polite to the bast#@*s!!!

originally posted by: Swills

Every time I've ever been pulled over or been with someone who has been pulled over no one but the driver had to give ID. I'm white.

That's funny because every time I've been pulled over with passengers in my car (or even as a passenger), we all had to show I'D... and I'm white too. Maybe cops just have a nose for folks who are up to no good?

originally posted by: Swills

Every time I've ever been pulled over or been with someone who has been pulled over no one but the driver had to give ID. I'm white.

EXACTLY.

That's what makes this so unreasonable. The fact that he is not the driver, there was no other moving violations, no suspicion of other criminal activity and there were kids in the car - makes everything about this incident out-of-proportion compared to the "crime".

Additionally, it is unreasonable for *trained LEOs* to jump ugly when a citizen reaches into a backpack following a request for ID. If that is the low bar for violent force reaction, then LEO need to rethink how they interact with citizens. Someone asked "who keeps ID in a backpack?" LOTS of people.

And, still, no one has commented on my observations from earlier...

SC man (black) reaching for ID after commanded = shot.
This guy (black) confused by why he is even targeted, gave some ID, just not adequate = tazed
Lady with baby (white) stopped for same violation = new car seat.

It's not playing the "race card" to acknowledge observable compare/contrasts and call BS.

a reply to: diggindirt

I didn't post this. Nor would I without a video of the entire event.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Swills

Every time I've ever been pulled over or been with someone who has been pulled over no one but the driver had to give ID. I'm white.

That's funny because every time I've been pulled over with passengers in my car (or even as a passenger), we all had to show I'D... and I'm white too. Maybe cops just have a nose for folks who are up to no good?

I live in New York and have been pulled over in many parts of the state and never once had to show ID. This is my experience.

a reply to: charles1952

A.) Yes, I think seatbelt laws are stupid, for adults but that makes no difference in this case it is only incidental to the real problem.
B.) Should they have been arrested, probably. The driver was being argumentative and didn't follow instructions she agreed to abide by when receiving a liscense to drive. A privilege.
C.) Passengers are not subject to do anything in a stop such as this unless the officers make a observation during their process which presents probable cause. This gets abused all the time by the way, due to the subjective nature of it relying solely on the discretion of the officer at the scene. Years ago here in NJ police used to lay in wait at toll booths to grab unsuspecting violators of seatbelt laws and use it as probable cause to look for other things wrong. It was overturned and all tickets were thrown out by the courts, including the DWI's they got in the process, insufficient PC and entrapment in some cases.
D.) There were kids in the car. Hypocratic oath comes to mind, watch the video again closely, this time with your eyes open. The officer swung his tool in a manner that the trajectory of the broken glass was aimed torward the backseats. He didn't warn the children beforehand and took a nonchalant attitude doing it. These highly 'trained' men acted no better then the idiot parents they pulled over. If your reasoning is stupid begets stupid then you are spot on. And are getting very warm as to why I'm so aggrevated by such incidents.
E.) Fear mongering - seriously, are you going to say I'm a sympathizer next?
F.) These situations need to be addressed and held to a higher standard. This is the USA not some 3rd world desert location. Until some form of accountability other then 'Oops, if your unsatisfied with our service please hire a lawyer and take it to a judge' happens, things are going to get worse. Meanwhile the system is set up in a way that those the enforce the law know most about how to circumvent it.
E.) I don't want to give away so easily my reasons for disliking the actions police have been accused of making in the past few months. You seem to know the answers already though. So, I am a single, 30 something, white, attractive(so I've been told), professional with my own business, house and 2 kids. I drive an Audi A4, wear a seatbelt and drive as carefully as a surgeon since most times I have kids in the car.
So I ask you, what is it that YOU think I'm afraid of the police for, after seeing situations such as this? Why do YOU think I want to see changes made so this stops happening? If I'm not asking for police to stop doing their job and most if not all times am grateful for their services, what could it possibly be that I'm upset about?