Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland, and England...it's our Union, let's now fix it together.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: grainofsand

You haven't explained how the Tories are going to make life better yet..but I'm all ears.

They aren't going to make your life better. Instead, they're probably going to give you what you asked for - more autonomy. Devolution of more economic powers to Holyrood. A Scottish Parliament far more capable of making it's own financial decisions than ever before.

The outcome of this vote has been to create a situation that allows for constitutional upheaval. More likely than not, that will include having Scottish MPs barred from voting on matters that only directly affect England - after all, those powers for Scotland will be devolved to the Scottish Parliament, there is no need.

Except... this significantly cuts Scottish influence over expenditure. Scottish MPs (conveniently Labour in the majority) have often sought to block reductions in public expenditure because it affects their en block allocation of money from the UK, thanks to the Barnett Formula.

The Barnett Formula is often tossed around but not widely understood. It's a way of dividing up money between the different parts of the UK. It was meant as a quick and temporary fix but somehow stuck. A rough explanation would be as follows:

Imagine there are only 1000 people in the UK. The total expenditure on public services amounts to GBP £1.000.000 per year. This gives a notional 100% average of £1,000 per person per year.

Instead of using this simple average, the Barnett Formula seeks to give different weighting to different parts of the UK, so they all have a different percentage. England is 97%, Scotland is 117%. So, if we have a notional 100% average of £1,000 per person per year, what would actually happen is that England gets £970 per person per year (97% of the notional figure), while Scotland gets £1170 per person per year (117% of the notional figure).

Any attempt to reduce public expenditure in England would automatically reduce expenditure in Scotland - and because of the Barnett Formula, the reduction would affect Scotland more. So, Scotland does not want England to spend less money on itself. If Scottish MPs can no longer vote on English matters, they can no longer block moves to bring the deficit under control at the expense of their cash cow.

If the Scottish want to make up the difference - well, they now have responsibility for raising their own taxes, they have to take it out of Scottish pockets. They can't pin the blame on Westminster anymore.

This is, of course, assuming that Cameron follows the plan that I believe he will follow. Maybe none of this will come to pass.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol
Oh behave Solo, you are not an impoverished wasteland which has any more problems than the rest of the UK.
I've told you umpteen times about the very same rural poverty issues we have here in an equally forgotten SW of England, which has the same poor wages as Scotland, but then seasonal with tourists, and house prices way in excess of prices for property north of the border.

Stop being a victim and turn all that independence energy into transforming the union (which your country chose to be part of) into something better and fairer for all of us.
Your cries of poverty Scotland are tiresome now, we are just as poor in the SW of England and get around a thousand pound per year less spent on each of our citizens due to the Barnett Formula.
Stop whinging as if you lot are suffering any more than the rest of us, and inspire the fight against our common enemy...the twats in Westminster.

Well said mate

a reply to: EvillerBob
We mustn't forget that the Scottish government has had the power to raise income taxes by 3 pence in the pound for years, but never did it, presumably for political reasons.
If the SNP were really so passionate about the 'poor in society' then they could have targeted their own rich to avoid the foodbanks bleated about in all the independence threads before the vote. They chose not to, and that was a solely Scottish decision.

I want equity for all of us, and now the Scots have voted to be part of the continuing union then we as people need to remain strong allies in our common battle against the corrupt politicians in all our of our constituent nations.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: EvillerBob
We mustn't forget that the Scottish government has had the power to raise income taxes by 3 pence in the pound for years, but never did it, presumably for political reasons.

They also had the power to reduce by the same amount, but never did, that shouldn't be forgotten.

a reply to: uncommitted
While I agree completely, it is past history now, and a point (as well as my own) which is irrelevant in shaping our future path together.
Now the Scots have voted to continue with the union we should embrace all our options and deny those who wish to create division between us. They had their chance to dreate a divide, were partly successful, but then lost, so I say lets now move on together and forget those who wish to divide us. I've personally seen enough of that in our United Kindom.

Interesting to see the angry posts on ATS by those who voted against the wishes of the Scottish electorate.
I want a bright future for all of us, but it seems some only wish a bright future for Scotland.
That isn't really nice as far as I see it.

OH willy. your intelligence knows no bounds. Its a shame they coudnt get more yes voters.

No trolling implied here though. Alot of voters feel that way. Still this issues not over i am sure.

a reply to: grainofsand

I'm from Northern Ireland if it makes any difference....lack of positivity comes from years of broken promises and harsh treatment by the British government. They lie time and time again and I'm saddened that the majority of people (not by much) have been taken in by their lies yet again. I don't think people ever learn.
The positive thing is that the vast majority of the younger generation demographic voted yes, so times will change, though I doubt the Scottish people will ever get the chance again.
Yes history has a lot to do with it, many thousands of freedom fighters gave their lives so Scotland could be a free nation, and at this point turning in their graves, how sad.

You say, lets move on....I say never forget how the English have treated the Irish, Welsh and Scots in the past, with absolute contempt.

I say the fight continues........

A brighter future is a country living outside the rule of Great Britain, a country who is rich in the history of conquest, oppression and savagery.

What will change? Absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, Westminster will continue to rape the resources of the Celtic nations, and its sad to see that the Scottish people in the majority are quite happy to supply the lube for ya's........enjoy!

a reply to: yuppa
Have you got a dog in the fight or are you just making social comment from a country unaffected by the vote?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: yuppa
Have you got a dog in the fight or are you just making social comment from a country unaffected by the vote?

Im a american. i prefeer the scottish people able to run their own affairs though. England a big boy now and does not need them really.

originally posted by: celticniall
....I say never forget how the English have treated the Irish, Welsh and Scots in the past, with absolute contempt.

I didn't read any more after that, I'm Welsh and I like a shared union with Scotland, England, and Northern Ireland.
If you are so negative about working together then I suggest you start your own thread to whinge about it.
This thread is all about us getting over ourselves and shaping a brighter more positive future for all of us.

a reply to: grainofsand

Don't think so......you started this thread to get a reaction...and a reaction you got!

Sounds like you are someone that doesn't know the history of your own people.....but brainwashed by the lies

Enjoy your life under British oppression, where England will always come first, whether you are Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish.

a reply to: yuppa

Seems the Scottish people disagree with you

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: yuppa

Seems the Scottish people disagree with you

The true scotts would prefeer freedom if they still remember what the english did to their ancestors.1.6 million wanted to leave remember. OH and turns out some voted twice so it would not surprise me the numbers are much closer.

a reply to: celticniall
As skalla said to another poster, it seems the Scottish voters disagree with you about that.
Have a cup of tea.

a reply to: yuppa
2 million voted to stay and over a million didn't care enough to vote. What are you bleating about? Losing an election you didn't have a vote in?

a reply to: yuppa

Yeah, most of us actually have shared ancestry and British blood is very mixed. Many of the battles of the so-called celtic fringe had warriors of the same nations on both sides.

I have ancestors who slit each other's throats, and my granny still spat when she heard the name "Campbell" even when folk talked about the soup.

This is of course in England. It aint as black and white as many foreigners think.

ETA: and who the hell are you to say what a true scot is? you know sod all.

a reply to: skalla
I'm a Welsh/Cornish hybrid with traced geneology going back to the 1300's, what the # do I know either? lol

Aw come on lads the king of the noobs Yuppa has clearly seen brave heart!

a reply to: Whereismypassword
Hahaha! ...amazing how many muppets have posted 'that clip' in independence threads...and usually US nationals.