What if all religions were debunked...?

a reply to: Ridhya

For the most part I do agree, I wasn't necessarily saying that is my view by the way.

I think we should take responsibility for ourselves and families and try to help others out when we can.

If there is truly a god, then maybe he/she should do a better job of guiding and advising as a would my children and will continue to do until my last breath. However I don't believe this to be the case, man is where it is now because of its own actions...


Having said this religious people are expected in some circles to thank god for good fortune, they should then be entitled to be upset when things arent going so well? lol

a reply to: andy06shake

While accepting some of what your saying as right, I disagree with parts. society needs some rules/laws and certain amounts of control don't you think?

Child molesters? Rapists? Thieves? Murderers? Should they have free reign. Society needs structure and consequences. Although I'm not suggesting the higher authorities always get it right, it is fundamental and I would much rather raise my children in todays society than one where there is no one taking control.

a reply to: demondonna

People can know better than to do such actions without the need of organised religion, belief in one religion or another does nothing to alleviate the presence of child molesters, rapists, thief's or murderers. In point of fact most religions at some point or at sometime throughout recorded history have promoted and condoned said actions, even rewarded them.

originally posted by: Rodinus


JUST IMAGINE... that one day someone opens up a secret vault (anywhere in the world) and comes across 500 percent or even more PROOF and I mean REAL PROOF in whatever form it may be (please don't play with words or twist my post around to suit your needs and beliefs) that everything that was ever written in the bible/equivalent) or any other type of religious manuscript was TOTALLY FALSE...

How would you react according to your education and personal beliefs?

Man, that's a bit too open-ended, specific as it is. It all depends on what it proved. Are we talking proof that countered religious texts only or are we talking some hypothetical proof that stated there can be no spiritual aspect to the universe?

In other words, is this something that disproves religious texts only or all of divinity?

Can you give a specific example we can all work from, even if it's far-fetched?

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Rodinus


JUST IMAGINE... that one day someone opens up a secret vault (anywhere in the world) and comes across 500 percent or even more PROOF and I mean REAL PROOF in whatever form it may be (please don't play with words or twist my post around to suit your needs and beliefs) that everything that was ever written in the bible/equivalent) or any other type of religious manuscript was TOTALLY FALSE...

How would you react according to your education and personal beliefs?

Man, that's a bit too open-ended, specific as it is. It all depends on what it proved. Are we talking proof that countered religious texts only or are we talking some hypothetical proof that stated there can be no spiritual aspect to the universe?

In other words, is this something that disproves religious texts only or all of divinity?

Can you give a specific example we can all work from, even if it's far-fetched?

Hi Cuervo;

I actually did give a specific example : everything that was ever written in the bible/equivalent) or any other type of religious manuscript.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

a reply to: andy06shake

You have my apologies, I read this entirely wrong. I presumed that I was in earlier posts making reference to society to on whole as well as religious groups.

originally posted by: Rodinus

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Rodinus


JUST IMAGINE... that one day someone opens up a secret vault (anywhere in the world) and comes across 500 percent or even more PROOF and I mean REAL PROOF in whatever form it may be (please don't play with words or twist my post around to suit your needs and beliefs) that everything that was ever written in the bible/equivalent) or any other type of religious manuscript was TOTALLY FALSE...

How would you react according to your education and personal beliefs?

Man, that's a bit too open-ended, specific as it is. It all depends on what it proved. Are we talking proof that countered religious texts only or are we talking some hypothetical proof that stated there can be no spiritual aspect to the universe?

In other words, is this something that disproves religious texts only or all of divinity?

Can you give a specific example we can all work from, even if it's far-fetched?

Hi Cuervo;

I actually did give a specific example : everything that was ever written in the bible/equivalent) or any other type of religious manuscript.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

My confusion stemmed from the answers, then. Many of the replies were positioned as if the entirety of spirituality was somehow debunked.

Honestly, aside from the expected chaos from the zealots from the Abrahamic faiths (one true god and all that), I think society would handle it pretty well. After a decade or so of violence and craziness, I think we would end up a far more peaceful planet than we've had in the last few thousand years. Most other religions don't depend solely on their texts for truth as much as guidance so I imagine the focus wouldn't be on much else beyond Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

Personally, it would change little about my path as my religious texts are very interpretive to begin with. Most of my actual understanding and knowledge of the divine comes from personal accounts, relationship with deities, testimony, the universe itself, and experience. I would just try to facilitate transitions for angry religious people into something softer and true.

Even in the OP's hypothetical, you can't debunk or disprove something that has never required hard data, facts, or experiments. While religions, hell even the Bible, may be able to be debunked, the only thing required of those who follow the belief of God (regardless of religion) is faith.

Faith can't be debunked. Faith simply is. Faith in God goes far beyond any book or any religion.

i have to ask...does anyone here think it is their purpose in life to kill that kind of hope in the entire human species? or maybe thinks that it would be a worthy pursuit in the interest of our well-being, or for whatever reason?

millions of humans who sincerely believe they will see their husbands and wives and siblings and parents and other relatives after death. suddenly convinced that they will never see their family again.

millions who believe that their hard work and virtues will be rewarded with more than unthinking oblivion after their mortal coils fail them. suddenly convinced that their efforts in this life will be dust in the wind.

millions who only have the strength to go on because they believe they are supported by a higher force, because they choose to believe because they feel hopeless and futile otherwise. suddenly convinced that there is absolutely nothing there for them except themselves.

millions whose entire structure of values and character are built on the belief that someTHING with overwhelming authority and power is there for them, to guide them and teach them and help them be the best they can be. suddenly convinced that they are perpetually on their own aside from friends and family who are just as invincible as they are. that is to say...not at all.

does anyone here feel comfortable doing that to our species?

I seriously think that there is a fundamental wrongness of all religions. First let me say all religions are based on belief that there is a god. Now when you bring it down to the bottom line it matters not one whit which god it is, the problems (which is an easy word for persecution and killings) is the prophets. In other words the interpreters of there given god and what that god wants ie. behaviour in his adherents. I think it's al-right to believe in a divine power but not in giving any man the power to "interpret" his words or actions. All religions are faith based, so no matter what evidence is proved correct they will always find fault with said evidence.

a reply to: crayzeed

The blatant fault with all organised religion, if you ask me, is the simple fact that why would any Omnipotent being require Man to kill his fellow Man in the name of said being? Considering "They" are apparently all also omnipresent one would imagine they would be doing their own dirty work?

Another thing, why would any such being require Mans praise or anything else for that matter? Never mind the simple fact that religions always seem to want your monies, what the score, can God not manifest his heart's desire at will?

Looks like he/she/it does not even possess the ability to transmute base metals into anything tangible never mind perform a miracle or two!

a reply to: andy06shake
I think you are confusing the two. Firstly IF a god exists a believer could answer "he did his work in creation then left man alone to mature". My post does not put any blame on any god. What it does do is put the blame on the believers, men and women who spout out what their god wants and expects of his followers. They are the ones causing ALL the troubles in the world, yesterday, today and tomorrow. As you put it, it is an obvious fact that if a god existed he would be a right evil, nasty bas**** and would not be deserving of one iota of praise or worship.that men give him.

a reply to: arpgme

The sun is just one aspect of the son and the reason not to worship the sun because then you are not recognizing the whole of the son. We are all you see around us. Evoloution tries to say that we came from animals over long amounts of time but the truth is that we are the animals and they are us now but they are only a small part of us even though they are whole. The same goes for all the stars in the sky and the plants around us. The water is space. Every bit of all we see and know is inside the father. It is all connected by his dna that ressonates at many unknown frequencies of light and sound.

All these religious texts were written by man. How hard is it to assume that it is all BS, just by knowing that alone? Not hard for me. I made my mind up when I was 12 that religion was created to keep people in line. If there was a Jesus then surely he would've been on an infomercial by now selling his signature sandals. If there were a God then he would make his presence known in a way that there would be no confusion or denying. I'm not saying that there isn't something, because I think there is. I just am willing to admit that I don't know yet. But one thing is for sure; One day, all of our hearts will beat it's final beat and we will all know one way or the other.

a reply to: Rodinus


The fact is ALL perception of life in the material/physical realm is “religion” because it’s mankinds nature to “believe”.
The amalgamation of all of a persons experiences form their belief in faith of “their” Belief System(BS) religion.This is true of ALL of mankind and everyones “perception” and experiences are different so it is “impossible” for any of them to be correct.The fact is ALL of your life is perceived “through “ faith in your religion(BS).

Religion cannot be eradicated while “living”(more accurately dieing) in the material /physical realm.This “religion” is neither good or evil in and of itself.The most vile forms of it are born from “herd” religions where MANY people believe in a few central doctrines of men(with a multitude of variations) and believe and say they are doctrines of their God.Those are what are “generally” thought of as religion however it isn’t ALL of religion it is just the most concentrated form which causes the most extreme perversions of the Truth.
AS the saying goes…”a man convinced against his will is unconvinced still”.The word belief instead of will would be more apropos.However the fact is All of mankind is just “acting” in belief of their nature and character. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do anything else.Some peoples “character” changes MORE(for better or worse) than others however that is only in accordance to their nature.

I understand your sentiment(if that was one of the reason for this post).”Mankinds religion” is not a pretty sight.It can cause great acts of benevolence (where there is none) and perversion.The fact is it is not going away and the pious fanaticism is growing more everyday.Just as many people fervently believe in “conspiracies” as herd religions.

If there was a “war” going on with a sinister power they would have to do nothing but watch man self destruct.Many calls this “power” they believe in Satan….and in one sense it is true…satan means adversary.(against the creator God) and that is “exactly” what is happening. Mankinds religious carnal mind(BS religion) is satan..and is at enmity with the creator God(Truth).Many believe this war is between Satan and God but the only war going on is between their ears in their religious carnal mind.

a reply to: crayzeed

I'm not confusing the two just trying to illustrate that most organised religions paint God as some kind of parent figure that guides our souls and is responsible for our creation yet fail to realise the fact that if this is the case then he is also nothing more than an absente parent who does not care one iota regarding humanities predicament given the fact that he has not even bothered to turn up and fix the mess that he is responsible for according to most holy scripture. Just my two cents.

Already think the religions/science on this world is biased subjective views and not objective truth yet so new information would not really be any problem for my way of thinking to handle.

From my point of view meditation and Reiki is being somewhat quantified today by science and after a while science will have to involve to include this observations and hopefully some of the scientist that hold on to materialism like bad religious dogma will finally wake up to that they already where proven to be wrong with Quantum entanglement.

The question is not mind over matter but how much do mind influence matter. The way we observation changes the experiment. What can we get away with?

Even telepathy (intention based information exchange between two distant beings using synchronicity) seem to have certain requirements to work where intuition seem to be part of it to get a successful information exchange.

The prophets taught the philosophy of the light within. How can you debunk the light?

Who say it is debunking the light/holy spirit/chi flow? I say that it will be quantified and known and better tools for activating it will be found.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
A Star Trek like society, would start to emerge.

I think so two but we probably would be more like Vulcan than the normal humans. Telepathic and master of controlling our egos to not cause harm to others.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Rodinus

In my opinion humanity stands a far greater chance of proving the existence of God and/or intelligent design by utilising our understanding of the language of mathematics rather than any organised religion has of getting it correct. Considering its the only true universal language and is based on logic rather than agenda driven paranoid delusional whims aka Man's interpretation and basic need to subjugate the week by any means necessary I think our answers my reside there, rather than with our own preconceived notions.

I agree with you.

Matthew 7:7

"Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you

I can make above to be about using the scientific method of testing and seeking objective truth and not subjective belief/faith. One will be the truth one will be an belief/idol of the truth.

I guess I could say that where you would fall out on this depends on your view of faith and religion, rather like a cosmic chicken/egg argument. Is religion the reason for deity or is deity the reason for religion? If you believe that it is the former, then, of course, being able to debunk religion should lead to the death of the concept of deity.

However, I think for most people of faith, true faith, our religion and any religious practices associated with it are incidental to the concept of deity and belief in said deity. How else do you explain the numbers of people who can be disillusioned by a pastor who winds up being so completely hypocritical that he might achieve the debunking of his entire church only to have so many of his former congregants keep seeking. That's faith in deity.

In my understanding, it's not enough to debunk religion. You have to also debunk God. The first can be and has been done often enough throughout history, but still faith and the faithful remain. So, I think what you might really be asking is what would happen if someone could 100% debunk God. That is easier said than done.