Black Budget - Good or Bad?

Do you think that Area-51 is still good/usefull?

Back when it was concieved it was a good idea and it had a purpose, to one-up the Soviet Union, But they were defeated over a decade ago yet Area 51 still gets bigger and more shrouded in mystery, while the Black Budget is higher then it was at the end of the cold war. It's currently above 30 billion and its said that around 20% of that money is being spent on keeping everything in the dark.

Some also believe that most Black projects have a White counterpart, but why? Wouldn't that be extremely wastfull? Like. if we have hypersonic spy plane why spend money to develop "public" ones like the Global Hawk, which is basically a AF spy plane that costs 30-40 million, while at the same time they develop one that cost 1 billion dollars because its goes hypersonic and so it cant be shot down.

Area 51 hasn't produced a plane for nearly 2 decades, makes you wonder what the hell they are doing with all that money.

Very few people know whats going on at Area 51, its usually a couple congressman and the people working on the project, thats it. Not even the President has access. With no overlook from the American public or all congressmen things can drastically go wrong, like spending 2 billion for 1 sub-sonic bomber, With a blank check and nobody looking over there shoulder and no dead lines they can easily steal money with no one the wiser.

They might be making space planes or just throwing the money away on old cold war ideas.

Is all this money still being spent for a war that never took place, or is it a down payment on WWIII?

Do you think that the Black Budget and/or Area-51 should be exposed?

Both should be exposed...

I think there is still a need for a black budget and there always will be. Other places that get a large amount of the black budget such as DARPA have gave mankind some great things the Internet for example dont believe Al Gore it was DARPA.

There is always going to be people wanting to steal US tech, Im looking at you China thus we need secrets

But I dont think these bases should be without all checks and balances as they are now. The can burn toxic waste in open pits and nobody can say anything. When you give a base that much unchecked power people willl abuse it.

Murcielago AREA 51 was produced planes in the last two decades we just dont know about it yet. I would bet some of the new UCAV designs were developed there.

Originally posted by Nexus
Both should be exposed...

I was more hoping for an American point of view, because obviously other countries would want all our secret stuff out in the open.

Shadow
Murcielago AREA 51 was produced planes in the last two decades we just dont know about it yet. I would bet some of the new UCAV designs were developed there.

I hope not.
I'm assuming your referring to the X-45 & X-47, which both can only go mach .8, There tech while it isn't off the shelve, I just really hope that the billions of black dollars can produce something better then that.

I agree with you on DARPA, but I dont think that the black world should be so dark, as to not even letting us know what it is or what it can do and its costs. How are those facts going to help other countries develop the same thing? I'm not saying release its exact propulsion technics or its blueprints, but at least a name and a picture with a breef discription.

But if they were making the X-45 & X-47 at Area 51 in 1984 two decades ago that would be impressive.

I agree the black world should be so dark but not to the public its too black even to the goverment. They should make some independant goverment agency to keep these secret bases in check and report back to Congress.

But when we have people like Clinton signing Presidential Determinations like 95-45 I dont look like this will happen anytime soon.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
But if they were making the X-45 & X-47 at Area 51 in 1984 two decades ago that would be impressive.

I agree the black world should be so dark but not to the public its too black even to the goverment. They should make some independant goverment agency to keep these secret bases in check and report back to Congress.

But when we have people like Clinton signing Presidential Determinations like 95-45 I dont look like this will happen anytime soon.

1. Yeah, but they wern't, Boeing keeps the records of the money and when things were completed, not to mention the only ones built are the smaller "A" versions for both aircrafts, it will be a few years before the B & C versions which will still only then be test aircraft, then after testing will they go into production, Just by tracking its life I can tell that its not from the black world, its from Phantom Works.

2. I agree, but dont you think we at least deserve a name & Pic & a small description? telling us that wouldn't help foreign #ries at all.

3.I agree, All they need to tell him is its for national security and BAM, its signed and official. Same goes for the land grab of that mountain that he also signed.

I'm glad that the government admits that it exist but to keep their level of secrecy is rediculous, Other countries leaders probably know more then the American people!

Yeah I think at the very least they could give the public a name. If they came out and said yes we have this spy plane called Aurora its was made under the black budget and much of it must remain secret.Perhaps release a picture like they did with the F-117 that was some what vague and hide some aspects of the plane.

You could show us where some of our tax dollars are going and still not give any foriegn country any secrets.

The goverment is wierd with the secrets it keeps. It protects even non-vital ones sometimes just as much as the vital ones.

shadow
The goverment is wierd with the secrets it keeps. It protects even non-vital ones sometimes just as much as the vital ones.

thats for sure...Like saying a base didn't exist while satelites can tell you how many buildings are on it.

I think a Black Budget is necessary. People in this world cannot be allowed access to all knowledge regardless of what they believe.

Would I like to know everything, of course. Do I think I could handle the truth, yes I do. This is coming from a person that believes we do not live in a humane world at all times and that sometimes there are necessary evils that occur. These budgets help in providing the technology and manpower that allow me and future generations within my country to sleep well at night.



[edit on 12/6/2004 by infinite8]

Infinite8
These budgets help in providing the technology and manpower that allow me and future generations within my country to sleep well at night.

and what if all this money and power are being aboused? Company's taking more then there share and taking a decade to build a future hypersonic stealthy aircraft while spending 10 billion and have it fail? money down the drain.

Originally posted by Murcielago

Infinite8
These budgets help in providing the technology and manpower that allow me and future generations within my country to sleep well at night.

and what if all this money and power are being aboused? Company's taking more then there share and taking a decade to build a future hypersonic stealthy aircraft while spending 10 billion and have it fail? money down the drain.

Of course it is being abused by some, but the majority of that money going to R&D has someone on the military or government end that pushes back. They want their toys. I think abuse of the money is a terrible thing, but I'm sure it happens. It happens in the most minute things in public life as well. I don't agree with it, but it is there in all life surrounding us. Its usually not all money down the drain. Some value can be attributed to knowledge learned during the project.

It was once believed that all of the money Northrop spent on the flying wing design for aircraft was a waste of money. Look at our aircraft today.

i hope they are making robot armies
like on terminator movies

just we wont give it an AI interface because that Always causes some sort of catastrophe

i bet they have some sort of energy blaster technology
like "plasma guns" or laser
there could be a whole bunch of types of energy weapons
X-ray or sonic or
hell even a gun that uses Uranium and focus a beam of radiation at target thus melting it into oblivion LOL

they probably have advanced 50 or 100years beyond what they Tell us in the Media

they most likely have space worthy craft
perhaps a fleet of them by now
but most likely they are just researching and developing more new and better designs

are they backwards engineering alien technology?
none of us really know; but
i sure hope they ARE

the human race is better off after having better technology

perhaps all the conspiracys are true : and the human race is very advanced technologically

or, perhaps none of the conspiracys are true : and the human race is very primitive technologically

i hope the military black projects play with alien technology
its fun and far from boring
its a great subject to think about
and post comments about on ATS forum like this

in general public UFOs and Aliens and Govt Conspiracys is becoming mainstream
most people believe in this stuff nowdays
most people think SomeThing is Up
we dont know Whats Going On
Oh But For Sure with all Certainty we KNOW something weird and "mad-scientisty" is going on in those big ultra underground military bases

did they create diseases like AIDS?
do they have alliances with alien groups?
will there be a New World Order?

we may never know for sure
but this stuff is like JFK assasination on crack
its amazingly interesting

what is the truth?

Lets go get jobs working for Govt contractors to work meager jobs in their ultra secret military bases

i heard if you clean the toilets in a military base *secret base*
you can get paid like 50 Thousand $ a year
Fifty Thousand American Dollar Bills
for just cleaning a toilet!

and you get to work Right Smack Next to the Top Secret Ultra Awesome Technology Research Projects

This is a trickey question and I guess it all depends on what there is to divulge. I can say that I and probably everyone else on here would love to know the whole truth about what goes on in Black Projects but once we knew, whether we would want everyone to know would be the question. Evidently, those who do know, don't think everyone should know so maybe its best we do not. When you look at the war on personal liberties and human rights that has been and is being fought throughout the world, it may be justified to withold some info from the general public concerning secret projects to combat the ever present threat posed by those who would enslave the planet or those who just generally disagree with people having a vote in who represents them...or more to the point, rules over them.

My personal opinion is that our Consitution never called or money to be secretly and illegally collected and spent so I have to fall back to it. Its fine to finance a military but the secret spending needs to stop or be justified to the people.

From: Murcielago
Very few people know whats going on at Area 51, its usually a couple congressman and the people working on the project, thats it. Not even the President has access.

I'm sure the president has access to Area 51. The president is the one who is most important in the U.S. government because he decides whether to fund area 51.

[edit on 7-12-2004 by BirdsEyeView]

Well I am willing to bet my life that the President does not know everything that is going on. Why risk letting a President who is only in office for 4-8 years have the ability to jeopardize something the military has been working on for decades. Presidents come and go too quickly to let them know everything. Should this be the case, no. Is this the case, most likely.

Originally posted by BirdsEyeView


I'm sure the president has access to Area 51. The president is the one who is most important in the U.S. government because he decides whether to fund area 51.

[edit on 7-12-2004 by BirdsEyeView]

The president does not have clearance to all black projects. Pesident Carter wanted all information presented to him about UFOs since he himself had seen one. He was denied by the head of the CIA at the time it was Bush Sr.

I really think some presidents have better pictures of what is going on in the black projects world. Since Bush Sr. was head of the CIA I bet he knew more stuff then say Clinton.

Im pretty sure the goverment just votes on how much money goes into the black budget they get no say on how it is spent. People in Congress have no clue whats going on the get Documented - vaguely - in funding requests and authorizations voted on by select committees of the US Congress. The black budget is not just hidden from enemies, foreign and domestic, but from the public and elected officials as well.

If Bush Sr knows all that, do you think his son is involved?

I think that Dubya is highly influenced by Bush SR, what if Bush Sr know something so disturbing that a conspiracy had to be set up for him to win ellections (or even staging 9/11 if you believe that) for a NWO which might be against a gigantic alien invasion force? ofcourse this is far out there but still...it COULD be possible right?

I would just think Bush Sr. would have a better grasp of the black world since he was head of the CIA. I doubt his son knows that much himself since he never had a job in the the right fields. I would think people that work with him like Cheney have a better picture of what is going on though.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I would just think Bush Sr. would have a better grasp of the black world since he was head of the CIA. I doubt his son knows that much himself since he never had a job in the the right fields. I would think people that work with him like Cheney have a better picture of what is going on though.

You dont think that Bush Sr. would tell his own who is the Preisident! Why wouldn't he?