Battle For Strategic Mariupol Begins, NATO Vows To Do "Whatever It Takes"

a reply to: kitzik

Russia is not the only nation with nuclear weapons. I dont understand why people think Russia is it. No one wins in a nuclear war and if someone talks about using them then they need to be removed so they cant.

a reply to: jajaja

What is good for the goose is good for the gander Let NATO explain that one away

Explain how Russia says they aren't supplying the separatists and have no troops in Ukraine, yet they capture Russian troops in Ukraine, but what's good for the goose (Russia) is just fine as long as the gander doesn't do it.

Explain how that hypocrisy works.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jajaja

What is good for the goose is good for the gander Let NATO explain that one away

Explain how Russia says they aren't supplying the separatists and have no troops in Ukraine, yet they capture Russian troops in Ukraine, but what's good for the goose (Russia) is just fine as long as the gander doesn't do it.

Explain how that hypocrisy works.

10 troops wearing highly visible white armbands is an invasion force?

I can see why Kiev is losing if that scares them.

Maybe the EU should be fearful if Russia sends 20 troops wearing Hello Troll Kitty Pink headgear.

I suppose if they had bycicles, it would be a mechanised batallion invading. Netherlands should watch out.

What food and humanitarian supplies have the West sent to Ukraine (no, Nuland COOKIES do not count)?

a reply to: jajaja

10 troops wearing highly visible white armbands is an invasion force?

Who said invasion force, I surely didn't?

I can see why Kiev is losing if that scares them.

Sure Ukraine is losing although they took much if what was held by the separatists back, but if that is what you consider losing you may want to check your definition of losing.

I suppose if they had bycicles, it would be a mechanised batallion invading. Netherlands should watch out.

And I bet you believe those paratroopers were just lost and accidentally crossed into Ukraine, although they are highly trained on how to read directions and use GPS.

It doesn't matter if they were using seeing eye dogs, the fact is they were in Ukraine and got caught which just left Russia in the position that shows they are lying about troops in Ukraine.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jajaja

10 troops wearing highly visible white armbands is an invasion force?

Who said invasion force, I surely didn't?

I can see why Kiev is losing if that scares them.

Sure Ukraine is losing although they took much if what was held by the separatists back, but if that is what you consider losing you may want to check your definition of losing.

I suppose if they had bycicles, it would be a mechanised batallion invading. Netherlands should watch out.

And I bet you believe those paratroopers were just lost and accidentally crossed into Ukraine, although they are highly trained on how to read directions and use GPS.

It doesn't matter if they were using seeing eye dogs, the fact is they were in Ukraine and got caught which just left Russia in the position that shows they are lying about troops in Ukraine.

Highly trained, but but, everybody says Russian troops are worse than American troops in equipment, training et al and moral is low.

So, care to explain how the highly trained American troops, BLOW UP THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND ALLIES in Friendly (*cough* some friends) fire?

Fog of war, right?
Mistakes happen, right?

Or do that just happen to Americans?


have you ever misread a map or timetable? I have.
Got lost in a street (with street names?), I have.
I have GPS, I still can get lost with it as do many couriers, who's job it is to follow it EVERY DAY.
Ever hear of HIGHLY TRAINED Pilots landing at the wrong airport? I have. These pilots have more navigation aids than anybody have, satellite, radio beacons, ATC, GPS et al.

Question - Why does Russia not have any allies?

This is very complex question. And some people may not agree that Russians have no allies now (it is my opinion)

You commented Russia was pushed to the wall. How did they get their in the first place?

I tried to explain you in my fantasy about Scotland. You don't get it, sorry i can't explain better.

This is not personal with Putin, any other ruler except Gorbachev would act and feel similarly.
More aggressive or less, but vector would be the same.

Russia had military ambassadors assigned to NATO HQ specifically to keep lines of communications open up to the point of sanctions.

He couldn't ask NATO, please stop converting Ukranian nation to anti-Russian, please stop financing Maidans.
Stop turning Scientology adventuress into Prime ministers, in short stop your filthy propaganda to our brotherly nation Ukraine
This is not in the competence of NATO ambassadors.
Now, it is too late. Ukrs are not brothers any more with Rus and someone need to pay for this.

a reply to: jajaja

Highly trained, but but, everybody says Russian troops are worse than American troops in equipment, training et al and moral is low.

Did I say they were highly trained compared to the US...no, but for Russian troops they are highly trained. You can still be highly trained and have low moral one doesn't cancel the other one out...sorry.

So, care to explain how the highly trained American troops, BLOW UP THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND ALLIES in Friendly (*cough* some friends) fire?

And of course humans can make mistakes, as it doesn't matter how technically advanced you are humans are far from perfect. And way to change the topic from Russia to America.

Fog of war, right?
Mistakes happen, right?

Read my reply above...Humans aren't perfect.

Or do they just happen to Americans?

And that is your answer not mine, and who says that it only happens to Americans?

en.wikipedia.org...:Friendly_fire_incidents_of_World_War_II

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jajaja

Highly trained, but but, everybody says Russian troops are worse than American troops in equipment, training et al and moral is low.

Did I say they were highly trained compared to the US...no, but for Russian troops they are highly trained. You can still be highly trained and have low moral one doesn't cancel the other one out...sorry.

So, care to explain how the highly trained American troops, BLOW UP THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND ALLIES in Friendly (*cough* some friends) fire?

And of course humans can make mistakes, as it doesn't matter how technically advanced you are humans are far from perfect. And way to change the topic from Russia to America.

Fog of war, right?
Mistakes happen, right?

Read my reply above...Humans aren't perfect.

Or do they just happen to Americans?

And that is your answer not mine, and who says that it only happens to Americans?

en.wikipedia.org...:Friendly_fire_incidents_of_World_War_II

I agree, humans are not perfect they make mistakes, so did 10 troops when they got lost.

Hardly hiding when they were wearing highly visible white armbands. They wore them to signal they are not part of the fight.

a reply to: jajaja

Special operations dont get lost sorry even if Russians arent on par with American troops i would hope they could read a map! Are you saying they are so poorly trained that a unit designed to infiltrate enemy territory cant figure out they marched 30 klicks into another country? I mean heck all they had to do was read some road signs even a moron could figure that out. However this point its totally irrelevant and your attempting whats called deflection. Russians have indeed invaded Ukraine were tracking their movements.

So my question to you is simple why deny facts is it because its inconvenient to your beliefs or is it more insidious in that you believe Russia has the right to invade Ukraine and they won your blind support?

a reply to: jajaja

have you ever misread a map or timetable? I have.
Got lost in a street (with street names?), I have.
I have GPS, I still can get lost with it as do many couriers, who's job it is to follow it EVERY DAY.
Ever hear of HIGHLY TRAINED Pilots landing at the wrong airport? I have. These pilots have more navigation aids than anybody have, satellite, radio beacons, ATC, GPS et al.

Well I suggest you learn to use your GPS better.

Out of the millions of flights a year how many of those flights land at the wrong airport?

And just want to go back to something you said about the having white armbands on...

The detainees were dressed in Russian military uniforms, but without any insignia and in camouflage overalls, while the identification markings on their military equipment were covered by paint.

rbth.com/politics/2014/08/27/putin_awaits_report_from_defense_ministry_on_soldiers_captured_in_uk_39351.html

But of course when the military of any country does excercises they remove their insignias and paint over their identification markings on their equipment just for the hell of it. Or is that what you think is normal when highly trained troops do excercises in their own country?

a reply to: jajaja

Hardly hiding when they were wearing highly visible white armbands. They wore them to signal they are not part of the fight.

Sorry but they weren't and it has been shown in my previous post so you can stop that lie now.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jajaja

Hardly hiding when they were wearing highly visible white armbands. They wore them to signal they are not part of the fight.

Sorry but they weren't and it has been shown in my previous post so you can stop that lie now.

Must admit this is the first i heard they were wearing white arm bands i have found no source for that so its likely a lie. But Russia has been caught using UN insignia's on vehicles painting them white and saying there aid doesnt mean you can put a UN flag on them and call them peace keepers. This is a severe violation of international law yet the world press has all kinds of pictures of Russian trucks that did exactly that.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: kitzik

If the precision weapons are smart bombs from the air, then Russia merely needs to get some SA-3 and SA-6 type goodies to the NAF. A handful of GPS jammers would further spoil the party.

In return Russia should also seek to arm anti-Western nations like Syria and Iran with stuff that would make DC regret the move.

They already have... Like top of the line missile defense systems to the 2 countries you just mentioned.

Question - Does this mean the west can arm anti Russian groups then?

Neither Syria nor Iran have S-300s.

Sure go ahead and arm anti-Russia groups and Kremlin will make sure your boys never get to leave Afghanistan. How about some Manpads and Kornets for Talibans and top it off with man portable versions of single fired Grad rockets. That's only to start with.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: victor7

Russia have no allies. That is another reason I'm so worried, they are literally pushed to the red line that they can't retreat any more.

Russia has many allies. China for one knows that if Russia is tamed then they will be next. So better fight now together than alone later. North Korea, India, pretty much whole of Islamic World to name other few.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: jajaja

Special operations dont get lost sorry even if Russians arent on par with American troops i would hope they could read a map! Are you saying they are so poorly trained that a unit designed to infiltrate enemy territory cant figure out they marched 30 klicks into another country? I mean heck all they had to do was read some road signs even a moron could figure that out. However this point its totally irrelevant and your attempting whats called deflection. Russians have indeed invaded Ukraine were tracking their movements.

So my question to you is simple why deny facts is it because its inconvenient to your beliefs or is it more insidious in that you believe Russia has the right to invade Ukraine and they won your blind support?

Yes they do get lost, make mistakes...

Here is one example from the UK.

en.wikipedia.org...

The plain-clothes soldiers were killed after driving a car into the funeral procession of an IRA member

One simply does not wander about Northern Ireland areas like that during times like that if you are a well trained and equipped British solider, especially one not in uniform in a car, with weapons, with lots of armed PIRA members, during a sensitive time.

It is very easy to know when you are in an area you are not suppost to be, in Northern Ireland, it is painted all over each building practicaly.

They even had a helicopter (gazelle) monitoring them over head, how do you think they got it all on video.

a reply to: jajaja

What food and humanitarian supplies have the West sent to Ukraine (no, Nuland COOKIES do not count)?

And I am going to guess money isn't what you consider humanitarian aid is it?

And what exactly has Russia sent, and remember only a small fraction of the so called aid trucks was ever inspected and cleared so only the Russians and separatists know what was in those trucks.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Did I say they were highly trained compared to the US...no, but for Russian troops they are highly trained. You can still be highly trained and have low moral one doesn't cancel the other one out...sorry.

Screw the training or uniforms. When ethnic Russian civilians are being shelled and bombed in their own homes, then Russia has every right to send in troops to cancel out the aggression factor.

That Russia sent them covertly is their choice for now.

How would US react if some ISIS type group attacks its embassy in middle east and kills few Americans. US will throw back spoon, shovel and sink all at once on the attackers.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: jajaja

What food and humanitarian supplies have the West sent to Ukraine (no, Nuland COOKIES do not count)?

And I am going to guess money isn't what you consider humanitarian aid is it?

And what exactly has Russia sent, and remember only a small fraction of the so called aid trucks was ever inspected and cleared so only the Russians and separatists know what was in those trucks.

Money is not something you sent to a warzone, it gets laundered, siphoned off, and never gets to do what it is intended. You put aid on the ground via food, generators, water et al. Not dollar bills.

What the US/NATO et al are doing is FUNDING, weapons and systems and equpment for WAR, not HUMANATARIAN AID.

That is like pouring more fuel onto an already large FIRE.

It reaches the people all right, in the form of bullets, shelling et al. Hardly what I call HUMANITARIAN AID.

a reply to: victor7

Neither Syria nor Iran have S-300s.

Not according to one Iranian lawmaker...

Iran's status regarding the S-300 system remains controversial. Iran claimed to have signed a contract with Russia on 25 December 2007 on the sales of the S-300PMU-1 missile system.[42] Russian officials have denied this.[43] It has also been claimed that Croatia sold their S-300s to Iran.[44] Later, On 21 December, according to a senior Iranian lawmaker, Russia has started the supply of components for S-300 air defence systems to Iran. Esmaeil Kosari, deputy chairman of the parliamentary commission on national security and foreign policy, told the Iranian news agency IRNA that Iran and Russia had held negotiations for several years on the purchase of S-300 air defence systems and had finalized a deal. Kosari said the Islamic Republic would deploy S-300 surface-to-air missile systems to strengthen national defence on border areas

Syria: Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the acceleration of highly advanced Russian weapons supplies to Syria. Referring to S-300 anti-air systems and the nuclear-capable 9K720 Iskander (NATO named SS-26 Stone) surface missiles. Since Syrian Air Defense Force teams have already trained in the Russian Federation on the handling of the S-300 interceptor batteries, they can go into service as soon as they are landed by one of Russia's daily airlifts to Syria. Russian air defence officials will supervise their deployment and prepare them for operation.[68][69] According to President Vladimir Putin, components of the S-300 have been delivered to Syria but the delivery has not been completed.[70]

en.wikipedia.org...(missile)#Operators_and_other_versions

If they aren't operational now they will be soon so you may want to revise wherever you get your info.

Sure go ahead and arm anti-Russia groups and Kremlin will make sure your boys never get to leave Afghanistan. How about some Manpads and Kornets for Talibans and top it off with man portable versions of single fired Grad rockets. That's only to start with.

I am amazed at how much warmongering you have shown in these threads as of late and you talk about others and call them warmongers...just utterly amazing.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I am amazed at how much warmongering you have shown in these threads as of late and you talk about others and call them warmongers...just utterly amazing.

So US sends weapons against Russian people and Kremlin keeps quiet? If it does not, then it is war mongering?

What world are you living in ??