I Am Lost For Words...You Need To See This...

It would be great if the English could have a 'No Scots' vote. Just for the sake of fairness.

originally posted by: Alekto
It would be great if the English could have a 'No Scots' vote. Just for the sake of fairness.

You seem to miss the point. It's about Home rule not breaking away from the English. also, dont the Welsh and Northern Irish get a vote seeing as we are on the subject of "Fairness"

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: jrmcleod

This has already been bought up by another member in another thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

For what its worth, I find the timing of this revelation to be deeply suspect. True or not, there was a time, not that long ago, when this sort of information could have assisted inquiries with their investigations of the Dodgy Dossier issue, and many others, pertaining to the War on Terror.

Whether his lack of willingness to speak until now has been out of cowardice or calculation, its a pretty crappy way to use that information, to lever the Scots away from the United Kingdom. I feel pretty strongly about all this, since my heritage has echos of every corner of the British Isles within it, and I love living in a country which unites all the pieces of which I am made, under one flag.

He's been telling the tale for some time now. The Guardian did such an interview and story ten years ago.

Circa 2004,
www.theguardian.com...

Some names to conjure with re; Whistleblowers.

Craig Murray.
Assange.
James Yee.
Brigadier Janis Karpinski.
Scott Ritter.
Look them up and see the do do's they all came up against.

originally posted by: Logarock
This guy needs to elaborate on such a charge as "shipping people" off to be tortured. When, where, how, what and all that sort of regular information.

He didn't need to elaborate in that video, between The Guardian and Wikileaks most of that stuff should be out there some time ago.

I'm a no voter. That was a extremely persuasive video and argument.

The assumption is of course that a Scottish government wouldn't be so morally bankrupt as a English government. I'm not sure that would be the case.

I will need to think about this more.

originally posted by: cyberheater
I'm a no voter. That was a extremely persuasive video and argument.

The assumption is of course that a Scottish government wouldn't be so morally bankrupt as a English government. I'm not sure that would be the case.

I will need to think about this more.

I see you are crunching the numbers. The devil you know or the devil you don't know? That's the thing in politics, the first thing that goes straight out the window is patriotism.
Snowden, perhaps above all has caught government/s and secret services out in their own game..officially, in fact has made fools out of the whole gamut in the way things are now done, including the bogey man.
And yes, as others have pointed out, following the money for a cherished few is not a bad way to start.

a reply to: jrmcleod

Your title is a bit bothersome. But very good video.

a reply to: jrmcleod

No need to apologize for the slight number of threads started:
the quality more than compensates. Thank you for this.

It's a recurring talking point from most there should have been
an earlier unloading of Mr. Murray's chest. Maybe so, but would
anyone in a position to avert military action done so? I believe
also as most that die was cast long before 9/11. Good to hear at
least some reinforcement of strongly held suspicions by ATSers.

For the revolutionaries, either intellectual or violent: it all
shakes out to human nature. I won't look at the primary motive
behind the referendum being selfish-- yet the old saw of the new
guard regrettably becoming the status quo is all to quickly the
political manifestation.

As a yank I envy your resolve to choose at whatever cost, but not the
choice itself. How fertile the soil does though dictate how often its weeding.
May the wisdom of at least our ancestors visit you for that choice.

Agreed. and further proof that Germany lost the war, but not the NAZI party. They still thrive and took over the control of elected Governments.a reply to: Soloprotocol

If he was so outraged by what he learned while being a diplomat, then why did he not come forward and reveal what he knew when all this first blew up? To be honest i am skeptical of every politician and beurocrat, politicians have made me this way but as someone pointed out earlier it must be confronted head on if you want real change.

I am proud to be British and I dont see any difference in being English, Irish, Scots or Welsh, we are all interbred over the centuries and I consider our culture and heritage very much intertwined. Together we are stronger, together we can make Britain Great again and create the change we all desire.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Shiloh7

I am British, and proud to be, but I am also aware of the failings of previous generations. I have ensured that I take a wide view of the history of these Isles, precisely because I wish to be part of a generation which makes less, or different mistakes, than those which have come before. I am by no means ignorant of the horrors my ancestors have visited upon their fellow human beings, and determined that I will do what I can to prevent such toxic behaviour, wherever it is in my power to do so.

Tis yet another reason, that I am dismayed by the timing of Mr Murrays revelations, and deeply suspicious of them.

What about the timing of all these bollocks TVpersonalities/popstars/reality stars etc. coming out trying to influence the kiddies to vote NO ??

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: TrueBrit

The man specifically states that he was once proud to be driven in a car bearing the flag of this nation. Well if he was truly proud, then why would he not fight to excise the rot, rather than put his back to the affair? Does he not realise that the right way to deal with these things is to confront them, rather than to run from them? Does he not understand that by refusing to tackle these issues, he only makes it necessary for someone else to do so, someone who might not be as well informed or capable as himself?

There is no confronting this evil that rules today. You can not win by confronting it. You are immediately a communist or a terrorist if you go against this policy of unjust warfare.



sorry for jumping in your posts...you seem like a decent individual with a cool head on his shoulders. I just felt compelled to comment. My country did the exact same thing 25 years ago...made a vote to separate from Yugoslavia.

It was a blood bath...because rulers hate losing power and territory.

But to agree with you on a certain level...did we as a independent nation achieve anything by separation ?? Not so much. We gained independence, but a different set of rulers just took over and made it if not same than worse than it was. We now have a different master. The EU. We are slaves again...just as we were before the independence. It appears we are unable to govern ourselves.

Sometimes...it all seems like an endless game of chess, and the pawns keep getting sacrificed...

Your right to suggest that independence will do nothing in the end. The ties that bind will always be there, money, resources, the banking system and people who desire power and the trapping that come with it. Maybe the short term will be different. Maybe.

a reply to: smurfy

He's been telling the tale for some time now. The Guardian did such an interview and story ten years ago.

Thanks Smurf...that puts things in perspective.

so the guy didn't wait to drop the bomb on this one...as claimed in previous posts.

One more reason to like him.

a reply to: Firefly_

Not really mate but there is hope.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I see his point though.
What country is Utopia?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Nothing in the Video that i didn't already know. One of the reasons i will be voting Yes is I no longer wish to be governed by a out of control military Junta...The only difference i see between Bush, Blair, Cameron, Obama, Galtieri and Pinochet etc etc is the choice of clothing.

Obviously you would prefer a "Salmond Pink" colour to your clothing then….?

originally posted by: TrueBrit

For what its worth, I find the timing of this revelation to be deeply suspect.

Whether his lack of willingness to speak until now has been out of cowardice or calculation, its a pretty crappy way to use that information, to lever the Scots away from the United Kingdom.

He's talked and written about it a great deal - he even wrote a book about it (Murder In Samarkand - A British Ambassador's Controversial Defiance Of Tyranny In The War On Terror). Given what I've seen and read of him talking about this subject over the last decade I'd certainly not describe him as a coward.

What ever you choose... Think twice.
Once you go it alone..... hard to turn back and all

I believe there's not a single Scottish city that has been able to balance their budget. They are always going over budget. They couldn't even keep a tram line construction project on budget. Though that was more because they didn't do any geological surveys or used a GIS system and just started digging up roads.

But there's a belief that all our savings are being sucked up by the English banks which are then given to themselves as bonuses. So while the London economy is booming, the rest of the country remains in poverty.

a reply to: jrmcleod

The people in Scotland have the chance to help it, leaving the UK will reduce the UK's power globally

Because Scotland is a global powerhouse?

Could've fooled me!