40 Problems with Christianity

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: WarminIndy

You said or asked..."Have you confused Christianity as a whole with mere individual doctrinal tenets of various denominations?"

I don't think so, Methodists are notoriously less strict or open to other interpretations of the bible as opposed to certain Baptists who are very fundamental, at least those that I was associated with. It's not just any one doctrine or item but many.

I believe that being LBGT is not a simple choice. That is at odds with the bible and main stream Christianity.
I believe that the old testament is full of hate and killing. I'm totally against it.
I have a problem when Jesus says to follow all the old laws.. referring to the old testament. How can I follow someone like that?
I believe that Paul took Christianity and molded it in his view not the view of Jesus.

I mean there is just so much more, as I've listed earlier.

So if you were to have an honest discourse about Christianity with me, what would you say?

What I've seen earlier in this thread are statements like "Oh another Christian Bashing thread.." "...Atheist has already made up his mind..." "If you don't believe, I can't change your mind.." " Too many threads like this already..." etc. But no real counter arguments.

I just makes me wonder though, because you still maintain Methodist and Baptist, as though they were the sum total of Christianity. I didn't limit Christianity through the periscope of two denominations, but the broad spectrum. Is LGBT the reason you are struggling with Christianity?

I didn't mention LGBT, but you did. So is that what the whole issue really is about?

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: WarminIndy

You said or asked..."Have you confused Christianity as a whole with mere individual doctrinal tenets of various denominations?"

I don't think so, Methodists are notoriously less strict or open to other interpretations of the bible as opposed to certain Baptists who are very fundamental, at least those that I was associated with. It's not just any one doctrine or item but many.

I believe that being LBGT is not a simple choice. That is at odds with the bible and main stream Christianity.
I believe that the old testament is full of hate and killing. I'm totally against it.
I have a problem when Jesus says to follow all the old laws.. referring to the old testament. How can I follow someone like that?
I believe that Paul took Christianity and molded it in his view not the view of Jesus.

I mean there is just so much more, as I've listed earlier.

So if you were to have an honest discourse about Christianity with me, what would you say?

What I've seen earlier in this thread are statements like "Oh another Christian Bashing thread.." "...Atheist has already made up his mind..." "If you don't believe, I can't change your mind.." " Too many threads like this already..." etc. But no real counter arguments.

I just makes me wonder though, because you still maintain Methodist and Baptist, as though they were the sum total of Christianity. I didn't limit Christianity through the periscope of two denominations, but the broad spectrum. Is LGBT the reason you are struggling with Christianity?

I didn't mention LGBT, but you did. So is that what the whole issue really is about?

No. I mean that's just one issue out of a dozen or so, which I listed already. I would think that the Methodist and Baptist churches I've attended, plus my personal study of the bible, plus my association with other Christians and reading articles and watching speeches by Christians and more should give me a good understanding of Christianity. I think that's a great understanding. yeah?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: WarminIndy

You said or asked..."Have you confused Christianity as a whole with mere individual doctrinal tenets of various denominations?"

I don't think so, Methodists are notoriously less strict or open to other interpretations of the bible as opposed to certain Baptists who are very fundamental, at least those that I was associated with. It's not just any one doctrine or item but many.

I believe that being LBGT is not a simple choice. That is at odds with the bible and main stream Christianity.
I believe that the old testament is full of hate and killing. I'm totally against it.
I have a problem when Jesus says to follow all the old laws.. referring to the old testament. How can I follow someone like that?
I believe that Paul took Christianity and molded it in his view not the view of Jesus.

I mean there is just so much more, as I've listed earlier.

So if you were to have an honest discourse about Christianity with me, what would you say?

What I've seen earlier in this thread are statements like "Oh another Christian Bashing thread.." "...Atheist has already made up his mind..." "If you don't believe, I can't change your mind.." " Too many threads like this already..." etc. But no real counter arguments.

I just makes me wonder though, because you still maintain Methodist and Baptist, as though they were the sum total of Christianity. I didn't limit Christianity through the periscope of two denominations, but the broad spectrum. Is LGBT the reason you are struggling with Christianity?

I didn't mention LGBT, but you did. So is that what the whole issue really is about?

No. I mean that's just one issue out of a dozen or so, which I listed already. I would think that the Methodist and Baptist churches I've attended, plus my personal study of the bible, plus my association with other Christians and reading articles and watching speeches by Christians and more should give me a good understanding of Christianity. I think that's a great understanding. yeah?

You forgot George Fox of the Quakers.

If you are totally against hatred and killing, then there are no grey areas and to make the absolute statement that you hate it (I am sure you mean absolutely), then can you answer these questions about yourself?


what do you do with yourself and your mind when you watch movies with gratuitous violence and killing? Is it entertainment for you?
What do you do when you find yourself listening to violent music that glorifies murder and rape?
What do you do when you find yourself making fun of any group of people? (Do you want fries with that?)
What would you do if you were to witness a person being murdered, beat or raped in front of you?
What would you do if you were asked to gang up and bully someone else because they didn't jump on the bandwagon of popularity?

If you hate it absolutely, then what would you do? Would you no longer believe in yourself if you had to respond with violence? Do you still believe in yourself if you entertain violence in your mind? Do you still believe in yourself when you ask others to follow the current trend of hedonism (which includes sex and violence)?

I don't know you, but if you are in any civilized country and you watch television, movies or listen to music, you are exposed to violence. So then you can't hate it if you are entertained by it.

But here's the thing, you simply repost parroted statements by other atheists, while claiming to be still believe in some deity, but the charges are the same. So do you not want to be dismissed as not being dismissed as rational or not intelligent, because it is more important to fit in society? Do you jump on bandwagon trends, it seems you do because you have a struggle with LGBT.

But here's the catch, as a human being, you are allowing and promoting and enacting the very things you charge God for. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you say all of this is wrong, then get rid of it completely from your life, but in the meantime, you still love yourself and believe in yourself.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: WarminIndy

You said or asked..."Have you confused Christianity as a whole with mere individual doctrinal tenets of various denominations?"

I don't think so, Methodists are notoriously less strict or open to other interpretations of the bible as opposed to certain Baptists who are very fundamental, at least those that I was associated with. It's not just any one doctrine or item but many.

I believe that being LBGT is not a simple choice. That is at odds with the bible and main stream Christianity.
I believe that the old testament is full of hate and killing. I'm totally against it.
I have a problem when Jesus says to follow all the old laws.. referring to the old testament. How can I follow someone like that?
I believe that Paul took Christianity and molded it in his view not the view of Jesus.

I mean there is just so much more, as I've listed earlier.

So if you were to have an honest discourse about Christianity with me, what would you say?

What I've seen earlier in this thread are statements like "Oh another Christian Bashing thread.." "...Atheist has already made up his mind..." "If you don't believe, I can't change your mind.." " Too many threads like this already..." etc. But no real counter arguments.

I just makes me wonder though, because you still maintain Methodist and Baptist, as though they were the sum total of Christianity. I didn't limit Christianity through the periscope of two denominations, but the broad spectrum. Is LGBT the reason you are struggling with Christianity?

I didn't mention LGBT, but you did. So is that what the whole issue really is about?

No. I mean that's just one issue out of a dozen or so, which I listed already. I would think that the Methodist and Baptist churches I've attended, plus my personal study of the bible, plus my association with other Christians and reading articles and watching speeches by Christians and more should give me a good understanding of Christianity. I think that's a great understanding. yeah?

You forgot George Fox of the Quakers.

If you are totally against hatred and killing, then there are no grey areas and to make the absolute statement that you hate it (I am sure you mean absolutely), then can you answer these questions about yourself?


what do you do with yourself and your mind when you watch movies with gratuitous violence and killing? Is it entertainment for you?
What do you do when you find yourself listening to violent music that glorifies murder and rape?
What do you do when you find yourself making fun of any group of people? (Do you want fries with that?)
What would you do if you were to witness a person being murdered, beat or raped in front of you?
What would you do if you were asked to gang up and bully someone else because they didn't jump on the bandwagon of popularity?

If you hate it absolutely, then what would you do? Would you no longer believe in yourself if you had to respond with violence? Do you still believe in yourself if you entertain violence in your mind? Do you still believe in yourself when you ask others to follow the current trend of hedonism (which includes sex and violence)?

I don't know you, but if you are in any civilized country and you watch television, movies or listen to music, you are exposed to violence. So then you can't hate it if you are entertained by it.

But here's the thing, you simply repost parroted statements by other atheists, while claiming to be still believe in some deity, but the charges are the same. So do you not want to be dismissed as not being dismissed as rational or not intelligent, because it is more important to fit in society? Do you jump on bandwagon trends, it seems you do because you have a struggle with LGBT.

But here's the catch, as a human being, you are allowing and promoting and enacting the very things you charge God for. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you say all of this is wrong, then get rid of it completely from your life, but in the meantime, you still love yourself and believe in yourself.

You're making too many assumptions, too many generalizations and over complicating things and, I think, redirecting me?

No bandwagon jumping here, No parroting atheist views, either.

Who's George Fox and why would I care what he thinks? Why do you think your experience of Christianity trumps mine? Why do you think that it's not okay to question Christianity? Why is it wrong to expect God to be a better being than me and therefore her word (The bible) to stand up to close scrutiny? Why do you think that an atheist is never right? Why do you equate me to an atheist when I've already stated that I believe in God?

Why do you think that LGBT issues are bandwagon trends?

a reply to: amazing

I didn't imply or assume you are an atheist, you are more agnostic.

Why don't you know about George Fox?

Yes, and some other people mentioned it also, the usage of quotes that atheists offer, kind of makes it parroting.

You were the one who brought up LGBT in the first place and said you struggle with it and the Biblical restrictions. You dismiss Christianity based on two denominations and didn't know about a third, but you claim to be some kind of scholar of Christianity.

How long halt you between two opinion?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

The literal meanings for "god' in all the religions is the king of sirius B, the dark star. Our version here is saturn.

Its the hidden ancient knowledge for personal awareness/waking up/being kind and loving and ascension, ie passing the tests and leaving this near hell zone penal colony and the dark hats behind that count. They hide that, its embedded into the writings, an inner gnosis, and they make it very hard for the average person to see, Its called cheating the duality which is supposed to be giving people choices. Well most people don't have choices, they just get to choose the lie in box A or the lie in box B.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: amazing

I didn't imply or assume you are an atheist, you are more agnostic.

Why don't you know about George Fox?

Yes, and some other people mentioned it also, the usage of quotes that atheists offer, kind of makes it parroting.

You were the one who brought up LGBT in the first place and said you struggle with it and the Biblical restrictions. You dismiss Christianity based on two denominations and didn't know about a third, but you claim to be some kind of scholar of Christianity.

How long halt you between two opinion?

Yes decades of living IN Christianity within two different, vastly different denominations, gives me an understanding of Christianity. If Christianity is so complicated that one can't be a Christian without being a scholar...well, that's a retarded world view. MOst of the Christians I knew and know now are not Scholars. They are just regular people like you and I.

2nd not an agnostic. I know that god exists, he just isn't the god in the Christian bible. There is a god, therefore I am not an agnostic at all.

The problem with Christianity and LGBT is that we know that being gay or transgender is not a simple choice or lifestyle choice like many Christians believe and like the bible says explicitly in both the old and new testament. That's a big reason that we know the bible is false and that Christianity has problems.

Why would I know or care about George Fox? What does one guy have to do with anything? Too lazy to google him right now.. not really interested in him. lol

a reply to: amazing

Methinks you are an agnostic, because agnostics tend to say "I know there is a God, a being, an entity, something out there, but I just don't know which one". OK, you don't have to stress out over it, plenty of people are agnostics.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: amazing

Methinks you are an agnostic, because agnostics tend to say "I know there is a God, a being, an entity, something out there, but I just don't know which one". OK, you don't have to stress out over it, plenty of people are agnostics.

I do know which god though. I believe. It's just not your Christian God. I like how you keep trying to derail the discussion by clinging to the notion that I'm an agnostic. Why do you do that? Why is it important for me to be an agnostic?

Generally the definition of Agnostic is:

A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

Therefore not an agnostic as I do believe in God. There is no doubt in my mind right now.

There, so you see you have no problems with the Church of Christ...
when you are a Christian.

a reply to: amazing

Ummm, I have had a lot of gay friends and it is a choice, why do they say its not? Because they want you to think they have no choice so you will accept being gay as natural. If it was natural, why come up with an argument to protect it, I don't hear anyone arguing that a lion was born to eat meat he can't help it. The natural is obvious.

originally posted by: stok3th3fir3
Ummm, I have had a lot of gay friends and it is a choice, why do they say its not?

a reply to: amazing

While I believe in God, I do not personally believe in Christianity and I think this article really puts into words, why I feel that way. I was a both a Baptist and a Methodist in the past, and have a lot of experience in/with the Church.

Yes you are amazing and much more. You confuse me to say the least. It matter little to me what you believe but why do you try to proselytize what you do not believe in? You suggest that Christianity is a fable but you believe in a god and then present an article from a total atheist. What exactly is the debate? We cannot debate you when we don't even know your belief. Do you totally agree with this article that you presented or just certain points? If you do subscribe to this then you are also an atheist. Then where is your god? Does this also apply to the Muslim religion? Which religions don"t you agree with? Do you have your own religion? Are you simply bashing Christianity and no one else? If you are then all you are showing is your dark side of hatred. I understand from your other posts that you have hatred for the accepted Christian Apostle Paul but that is your prerogative. What I do not understand is why you have this hate and your reason for dumping Jesus in the trash can.

A fair minded person would simply believe what he or she believes and discuss it in a civilized manner or keep it to themselves. I could never understand why atheists will spend millions of dollars and hours proselytizing their hated for Christianity. What is the purpose unless they are trying to build a Humanistic world of some sort? Very seldom is this directed to any other religion than Christianity. Why would you not post your own doctrine and then ask for a debate if that so concerns you? The whole thread is simply meaningless.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: amazing

While I believe in God, I do not personally believe in Christianity and I think this article really puts into words, why I feel that way. I was a both a Baptist and a Methodist in the past, and have a lot of experience in/with the Church.

Yes you are amazing and much more. You confuse me to say the least. It matter little to me what you believe but why do you try to proselytize what you do not believe in? You suggest that Christianity is a fable but you believe in a god and then present an article from a total atheist. What exactly is the debate? We cannot debate you when we don't even know your belief. Do you totally agree with this article that you presented or just certain points? If you do subscribe to this then you are also an atheist. Then where is your god? Does this also apply to the Muslim religion? Which religions don"t you agree with? Do you have your own religion? Are you simply bashing Christianity and no one else? If you are then all you are showing is your dark side of hatred. I understand from your other posts that you have hatred for the accepted Christian Apostle Paul but that is your prerogative. What I do not understand is why you have this hate and your reason for dumping Jesus in the trash can.

A fair minded person would simply believe what he or she believes and discuss it in a civilized manner or keep it to themselves. I could never understand why atheists will spend millions of dollars and hours proselytizing their hated for Christianity. What is the purpose unless they are trying to build a Humanistic world of some sort? Very seldom is this directed to any other religion than Christianity. Why would you not post your own doctrine and then ask for a debate if that so concerns you? The whole thread is simply meaningless.

I think you missed a few things. I believe in God but am not a Christian. Simple so far? The article from an Atheist, isn't about Atheism, really but what he perceives to be wrong with Christianity. I share many of his views, therefore I thought it would be a good discussion to post these and have a healthy debate or discussion about them.

I direct this at Christianity, since it is the overwhelming religion in the USA, where I live. I don't like Judaism or Islam or Scientology either if that makes you feel better.

So using this article as a springboard, I'm just saying that I tend to disagree with most if not all organized religions. I have no religion and don't really like to define myself. I just believe in God. I suppose more spiritual than anything.

originally posted by: stok3th3fir3
a reply to: amazing

Ummm, I have had a lot of gay friends and it is a choice, why do they say its not? Because they want you to think they have no choice so you will accept being gay as natural. If it was natural, why come up with an argument to protect it, I don't hear anyone arguing that a lion was born to eat meat he can't help it. The natural is obvious.

Then ask yourself, did you chose to be Heterosexual. I mean really think about that. Did you chose, when you woke up this morning to only be attracted to women. Are you attracted to men as well then and you actually had to make that choice this morning? I didn't. I'm not attracted to men. It's much deeper than a choice.

originally posted by: stok3th3fir3
a reply to: amazing

Ummm, I have had a lot of gay friends and it is a choice, why do they say its not? Because they want you to think they have no choice so you will accept being gay as natural. If it was natural, why come up with an argument to protect it, I don't hear anyone arguing that a lion was born to eat meat he can't help it. The natural is obvious.

So if you know to leave a lion alone, why not just leave gay people alone and let them live their lives instead of trying to control them and stop them from being married? We should treat others how we would like to be treated.

a reply to: arpgme
Couldn't the same be said to the group of people challenging the status quo? Why not leave a lion alone. I mean, when others write "why not just leave gay people alone" they seem to misunderstand it's the religious person's freedom of conscience that's under attack nowadays. And rather than show how homosexual conduct is something positive to be embraced, as they ought to since they're the people proposing the change in cultural norms and law, those behind the gay rights movement seem to prefer quoting Leviticus and misusing the word bigot.

I think we all agree with "We should treat others how we would like to be treated." furthermore, yet how do you and I wish to be treated? If we're going amiss in our behaviour and thinking wouldn't we want to be helped to right ourselves? Many gay men and women think so, yet they too are attacked by the gay community for daring to say they'd like to or have changed their sexuality, they're called liars and frauds for merely saying they've managed to change.

I wonder how many young men and women will mutilate their bodies so as to change sex with the LGBT community cheering them on this year, and all the while they're utterly oblivious to the hypocrisy of refusing others the right to choose their sexuality.

Moreover, when looking at the high levels of depression, suicide, mental illness, physical abuse, substance abuse, promiscuity, HIV and AIDS it's easy to see why people are so unconvinced by the gay movement. These issues don't just come up in conflict zones wherein homosexuality is unpopular, they're commonplace amidst countries that support their gay communities wholeheartedly!

a reply to: amazing

You can tell ME that you are a Christian, but I have no way of seeing your heart. Only God can. I can however see your works and your words and offer an opinion. If you can so easily be swayed from the truth, I don't honestly think you know Christ. Or ever did. I think you never actually left Babylon brother, sorry, that is just how I see it. Following Jesus Christ is not a religion. There are really no denominations, all are ONE in Christ.

originally posted by: fleshorspirit
a reply to: amazing

You can tell ME that you are a Christian, but I have no way of seeing your heart. Only God can. I can however see your works and your words and offer an opinion. If you can so easily be swayed from the truth, I don't honestly think you know Christ. Or ever did. I think you never actually left Babylon brother, sorry, that is just how I see it. Following Jesus Christ is not a religion. There are really no denominations, all are ONE in Christ.

Not a Christian, but used to be. Not really swayed from the truth, but seeing the truth. This particular article didn't sway me but is a good essay on some of the reasons I am no longer a Christian.

I believe in cutting out the middle man...meaning Jesus and the Church...and going straight to God. I do believe in God and the afterlife but not the way it's laid out by Christianity or any organized religion so to speak. Thanks for the reply though, I found it it thoughtful and respectful.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: fleshorspirit

a reply to: amazing



You can tell ME that you are a Christian, but I have no way of seeing your heart. Only God can. I can however see your works and your words and offer an opinion. If you can so easily be swayed from the truth, I don't honestly think you know Christ. Or ever did. I think you never actually left Babylon brother, sorry, that is just how I see it. Following Jesus Christ is not a religion. There are really no denominations, all are ONE in Christ.

Not a Christian, but used to be. Not really swayed from the truth, but seeing the truth. This particular article didn't sway me but is a good essay on some of the reasons I am no longer a Christian.



I believe in cutting out the middle man...meaning Jesus and the Church...and going straight to God. I do believe in God and the afterlife but not the way it's laid out by Christianity or any organized religion so to speak. Thanks for the reply though, I found it it thoughtful and respectful.

Hello,

Out of curiosity, how or why do you consider Christ a middle man that must be "cut out?"

This is a good topic, by the way. Glad to see it "resurrected."