Video shows police shot Ohio man ‘on sight’ as he leaned on toy gun in Walmart

The video will not yet be released because it is part of an ongoing investigation that may eventually lead to some kind of charges being filed against the officer.

I feel we should wait for more information to surface before any real judgements are made.

Butz wat duz i knowz I jus be a low IQ poileece offica.

The evidence is a game they play. If it favored the police, they would show it. If not, can't do it, trial, jury, blah, blah.

It's becoming a pretty good barometer of who is guilty.

Has the family member that was on the phone with him said anything yet? They should have been able to hear everything going on. It'll at least shine a little light on things till the let the videos out.

a reply to: loam

I doubt if this will end anytime soon. I just can't wait until I hear the Keystones trying this at a GUN SHOW.
Much butt hurt methinks!

a reply to: Murgatroid



Exactly the case and the cops with any kind of brain cells would know that people dont just walk around WalMart with $3000.00 rifles.
The SCAR's and Bushmasters regularly go at prices above $2500.00.
That alone should have caused the guy following him around to stop and say WTF?

As a 2 Amendment supporter and someone who has openly carried at protests in the past I have no issue with people carrying. think if more people carried then people would not be so afraid of guns. Someone should have asked the guy to just stop waiving the gun around and been ready to deal with him if he got violent. The odds are he had no idea he was waiving it around and was talking on the phone the whole time not paying attention to what he was doing. The cops should have been man enough to just walk up to him and ask him to get off the phone so they could have a conversation.

originally posted by: Mikeultra
a reply to: frayed1
I purchased a shotgun in a Las Vegas Walmart. I paid for it in the rear of the store where the guns are. The employee informed me it was store policy for him to walk the gun to the main entrance door and hand it to me there.

For good reason, apparently.......(tho it's not easy to find an actual clerk in the sporting goods dept., at least in my local Walmart.).....believe I'd ask him to walk it all the way to my car, esp after this incident.

I have purchased a couple of BB guns in walmart , from the sporting goods dept.....very realistic looking 'hand gun' types, and they were in clear plastic blister packs, which I simply tossed in the buggy with the groceries and paid for in the regular check out.

I do wonder about the packaging.....or lack of. Do they ever sell demo models that are out of their boxes?

Quite frankly, it should be obvious to everyone by this point.
This man is dead because he was in Wal-Mart and scary - aka: black.
People wring their hands and say that it isn't about race, but be honest with yourselves - it is.

While I don't agree with the tone of this article, it has some good information and raises some good points:
John Crawford Case: It’s Open Carry for Whites and Open Season on Blacks

John Crawford III was shot in a Wal-Mart after police received a 911 call alerting them that a man with a rifle was walking around the store. Officers arrived on the scene and, after a brief encounter, shot the 22-year-old man, who later died of a gunshot wound to the torso. As we now know, Crawford was holding a Crosman MK-177 air pump rifle—a nonlethal replica air rifle, intended for a child—and sold at the very store where he was shot while carrying it.
...
Ohio is an “open carry” state...It varies from state to state, but Ohio’s open-carry laws mean an individual can possess a firearm without a permit in most public spaces (including stores) so long as it is fully visible. In fact, in Ohio, you only need a permit if you wish to conceal a handgun.
...
Which brings me back to John Crawford. He was holding a toy gun in the store that sold it, and even if he were holding an honest-to-goodness rifle loaded with real bullets, he was well within his Ohioan rights to do so.
...
Consider this 2012 incident at an Ohio gas station: A white man entered a store openly carrying his weapon. Police confronted him. No weapons were drawn, and there were no commands to give up the gun, just a stern conversation. He was asked to provide identification, but he refused and was then arrested ... and then released. Alive. The charges were eventually dropped, and he is now suing the police department for $3.6 million.
...
A woman was at a bus stop waiting for her child to come home from school but was approached by an officer who saw her weapon... No yelling, no commands to get down. In fact, the officer gives her advice and even goes so far as to say he doesn’t want to dissuade her from carrying because he’s an advocate for it.
...
I chose these two examples because they took place in Riverside and Dayton, Ohio, respectively. John Crawford was killed in Beavercreek, which is a suburb of Dayton and just a few miles from Riverside.
...
The bottom line is that John Crawford is dead for doing nothing more than shopping in a store and minding his business. ... He just happened to do it while being black. And being black in America means you are always a threat.

Whiteness gives you open carry, blackness gets you open season.

If John Crawford were white, do you honestly think this incident would have happened?

edit: Along those lines, other people have predicted what can happen with open carry

Open carry can lead to numerous problems. As a cop responding to calls about this activity and as a person who carries a concealed handgun everywhere, I have a unique insight. Here are some of the issues:

1) Open carry will cause hassles with other people and eventually the police. Unless you live in a western state, open carry isn’t very common. When the uneducated populace sees someone carrying a gun (without a badge), they assume that a law is being broken. They panic and call the cops. What they tell the dispatcher when they call generally has no basis in truth. It usually ends up being something like: “There’s a man with a gun running around the grocery store scaring people!” If you were a cop, how would you respond to that call?

If the caller would have been honest and said “There’s a person walking around the grocery store who has a gun on his hip. He isn’t threatening anyone and appears to be shopping.” As a cop, I wouldn’t even approach you. I’d educate the caller that no laws were being broken and leave.

But that’s just not how it happens in real life. Blame it on whomever you like, but reality dictates you’ll get a police response. The police response may be positive, or it may be negative. Who wants to deal with that when you can simply cover your gun?

This piece was written in back in March. Of course, technically it wasn't even a real gun, but that insight is pretty nice.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
Maybe Wal-Mart should be sued for carrying fake weapons that look so real they cause innocent folks to get gunned down in the toy aisle.

sure sue the store for carrying legal everyday items? what about the real guns they sell? i guess they shouldn't sell them either? can't hold the store responsible for selling the same things every other store also sells.

they should be suing the police department, the police officers, and the moron that called it in. and the moron who called it in should be checked out for PTSD (former marine), since they seemed to have panicked over seeing a toy gun he seems to be having issues.

They should have pulled the tape up of his entrance. It would have taken 10 seconds to see that he did not enter with the weapon.

only IF there was a camera covering the entrance. most of those camera bubbles are actually empty. wal-mart is super cheap. when we were having a theft problem from some outside storage including a trailer to haul the stuff away on, they installed a FAKE security camera looking onto the area. it didn't fool the crooks who stole more stuff later. in fact it was the security guys themselves that moved cameras around occasionally.

and IF there was actually security in the store at the time. we used to feel there was never any security in the store when we needed them. we could page in vain when they were needed, only to find out later they were not even in. honestly they were like the keystone cops, like kids playing at being security. sure they caught lots of people when they were actually there, but it was hit or miss. and it would take much longer than 10 seconds. which door did he come in? when exactly did he come in? try more like 10 or 20 minutes, once they actually had someone meet them to open up the room if someone didn't happen to already be in it, so add at least another 5-10 minutes to that minimum.

a reply to: generik

Sarcasm. It was sarcasm. As far as tha camera bubbles being empty?? Every time someone in America disappears, it seems half of them are caught either entering or exiting a Wal mart. There are empty camera bubbles but they aren't at the entrances and exits at any store.

It may have taken longer than 10 seconds. If it was your child, you would want them to at least try if they weren't shooting up the store... Which this guy was not... With his plastic gun. I guess nobody is happy with the way these things end. If we had less cops that were just waiting to pull the trigger, maybe they'd get a free pass more often when situations like this came up.

People would not be so quick to judge every decision and every move. But it is what it is, and it's not the public's fault they are getting the reputation they are.

a reply to: ObjectZero

Well of course.. that's the real reason. More intelligent people are likely to make better decisions and less likely to follow.

but the official line is.. they'll get bored.

a reply to: Greven

I don't think it was a race thing. I think it was a scary gun thing and the fact that someone called it in.

Big difference between someone open carrying a gun in a holster on their hip (the gas station incident) and carrying an semi auto rifle in their hands.

So not race, but just idiocy.

This guy was killed because a stupid marine and stupid cops banded together for operation kill an innocent guy. A white guy with holding the same toy gun would have likely been called in too. Actually probably by more people as mass shootings on random people are more commonly associated with white people.

Sincerely all they had to do was make themselves heard (he was one the phone) and he would've put it down. Walmart could've had security review the tapes and seen within 2 minutes that he picked it up off the shelves.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

i never said i backed the cops on this, i just pointed out the problems with what you said. as for the cameras at the doors, well you would think they would be covered but you can't be sure since placement seems to be up to the security idiots. but like i said unless they knew what doors he came in (normally between 3 and 4 sets), and the time he came in, it would take far too long to check. i know when i was assaulted by a customer, and we knew almost the exact time, and the exact camera, it took about ten minutes or so to find and watch the needed footage. besides the fact if he entered with a gun, don't you think someone would have noticed and the word passed around? seriously every store i have ever worked in was a serious rumor mill. something as out of the ordinary such as a guy coming in with a rifle would have been known throughout the store in no time. for example a Lamborghini being taken to the shop for service made it to the other end of the store and to the store manager within a couple minutes. it might be legal but it certainly would stand out, be noticed, and spread around.

they didn't even need cameras to see. it would appear the guy was busy talking on a cellphone and leaning on the pellet gun. no threat, so no need to shoot.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
The video will not yet be released because it is part of an ongoing investigation that may eventually lead to some kind of charges being filed against the officer.

I feel we should wait for more information to surface before any real judgements are made.

Butz wat duz i knowz I jus be a low IQ poileece offica.

Alright, so after doing some looking into this, I've been able to form a real opinion. You guys can disagree with me, but I've already been mocked for the opinion outside of the internet, so let's keep THAT down to a minimum... Obviously.

My general questions:
-Why was it that if this kid was any real danger, that only one person called the police department that day? If he was waving a gun around, you'd think that in a place as busy as Walmart, you'd have hundreds of calls.
-Why is it that the only video that is released to the public right now is a dash cam video of an officer that showed up AFTER the shooting took place? What is the reasoning behind this?
-Would they have shot a kid that was playing with the same gun? After all, I've read numerous articles that stated that this guy found the gun in the toy section. I mean... A nine year old did just shoot her shooting instructor..
-How come a Marine can't tell the difference between said 'toy' and a real gun? I get that it's hard to tell the difference from a distance, but that's when you look around you, "Does anyone seem frantic?"


My general thoughts:
Obviously we're not gonna know what happened until surveillance videos come out to the public. Which won't be until this case is filed away. Most articles that I've read have said that at the time of being shot, he was leaning against it and talking on the phone. Not facing the police. I'd be confused if I was on the phone, and someone just yelled at me. I mean... It can be assumed that this guy did not see himself as a threat to the public because no one was panicked.
What a lot of articles defending Crawford says that the cops made no attempt to tell him to drop the gun at all, and just shot him. Chances are, even if they had, they wouldn't have given him enough time to drop the gun, he'd attempt to drop it, turn around, and before turning around, would be shot.
The cops say he was shot in the chest, so yet another reason why video footage should be released. If he was indeed facing the police, we have to wonder if it was just a shock moment, because again, what if he didn't see himself as a threat due to lack of panic around him?
I've read other articles that state that the gun was unpackaged, and Crawford was walking around the pet area. I don't know about this Walmart, as I live a bit away from that area, but the Walmart I live fairly close to.. The pet section is pretty close to the toy section. Could it be that Crawford had picked up the gun, and attempted to find an employee to give it to, so that a child wouldn't harm themselves or someone else? These articles do not make mention of what department Crawford was shot in.

I want to make mention that I do not think that he was shot because of his skin color. It could be a possibility, but I don't think that's what it is. I think it's just the cops giving a heavy dose of fear to citizens. I personally do not trust the officers in any part of Ohio. Every one that I've talked to has been extremely rude.. And when you add that to the Stuebenville case, where officers helped to try to cover up what happened for a long while, you lose hope in officers, whether they are involved in a case or not. Guilty by association, as they say, right?

What we do know is that this is the second police involved fatal shooting for this department, and the first was most definitely justified, as it was a domestic violence call. And the person charged at police. www.daytondailynews.com...

We also know that Walmart did not see Crawford as a threat, because they are not changing their policy on pellet guns. www.whio.com...

We know that Montgomery County The Montgomery County Coroner’s office has listed Crawford’s manner of death as homicide. www.daytondailynews.com...

I've searched 'Beavercreek, OH police brutality," "Sean Williams police history" "Sean Williams police brutality" And can't find anything about him specifically that might lead us to believe that he may have a corrupt history.

If you look up "Beavercreek Ohio, police corruption" on google, there are some pages that talk about the growing corruption in the department, but no news articles, or anything similar. Mostly just people complaining because something didn't go their way.

My opinion is that Crawford DID bring it upon himself, but he is innocent. It could be a possibility that the Marine that called in the report was suffering from PTSD and seeing a person with a lifelike rifle could have been a trigger and freaked him out. I don't know. I feel that it's not likely that this is about skin color. I think that it's likely just that a Marine called it in, you expect a Marine to know his stuff, so the officers gave no second thought to it other than "We need to take this guy out." Was it wrong? Yes. Should the officer be punished for his actions? Yes.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: Greven

I don't think it was a race thing. I think it was a scary gun thing and the fact that someone called it in.

Big difference between someone open carrying a gun in a holster on their hip (the gas station incident) and carrying an semi auto rifle in their hands.

I disagree.

For example, see this video of a drunk, jaywalking man with an actual rifle who even asked police to kill him in Michigan in May of this year.

What's the difference? Oh right, the guy who wasn't shot and killed is white.

Doubts cast on witness's account of black man killed by police in Walmart

Ritchie told several reporters after the 5 August shooting that he was an “ex-marine”. When confronted with his seven-week service record, however, he confirmed that he had been quickly thrown out of the US marine corps in 2008 amid complications over his enlistment paperwork

originally posted by: spacedog1973

Doubts cast on witness's account of black man killed by police in Walmart

Ritchie told several reporters after the 5 August shooting that he was an “ex-marine”. When confronted with his seven-week service record, however, he confirmed that he had been quickly thrown out of the US marine corps in 2008 amid complications over his enlistment paperwork

Oh wow.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic
Interesting they took the word it was real from the marine, in the other incident being discussed on the board the security gaurd told the cops it was a bb gun and they shot him 61 times anyway.
I guess the gist of it is..do not give them a reason/excuse to shoot no matter how lame of an excuse..in this case I don't think the dude had a chance, someone needs to pay though.
edit: I see he wasn't really a marine(not that it makes any difference)..what a dumbass, I hope the family can somehow sue him.

originally posted by: spacedog1973

Doubts cast on witness's account of black man killed by police in Walmart

Ritchie told several reporters after the 5 August shooting that he was an “ex-marine”. When confronted with his seven-week service record, however, he confirmed that he had been quickly thrown out of the US marine corps in 2008 amid complications over his enlistment paperwork

Thank you for posting this.

“He’s, like, pointing it at people,” Ritchie told the dispatcher.
...
One month later, Ritchie puts it differently. “At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody,” the 24-year-old said

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Lyxdeslic
Interesting they took the word it was real from the marine, in the other incident being discussed on the board the security gaurd told the cops it was a bb gun and they shot him 61 times anyway.
I guess the gist of it is..do not give them a reason/excuse to shoot no matter how lame of an excuse..in this case I don't think the dude had a chance, someone needs to pay though.
edit: I see he wasn't really a marine(not that it makes any difference)..what a dumbass, I hope the family can somehow sue him.

Yeah. If he was at one point saying that he had more experience in the marines than he did, or that he was a rank he wasn't, he can be in a lot of legal troubles considering that you can now be held accountable for lying about that. Which is fantastic.

It seems at this point that cops will find any excuse to do harm onto others. Even if the family sues someone, what does it do? It doesn't bring their loved one back. a human life cannot be weighed out in money.

It's scary that when my loved ones leave or I'm done talking to them on the phone, I feel like I need to add "Don't do anything that would get you shot."

Man who called 911 in Ohio Walmart shooting changes his story after viewing video

Maybe HE should be charged with murder.