Putin Defies Western Warning, Will Send "Aid Convoy" To East Ukraine

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

After publicizing this aid convoy, the Russians would not be so stupid as to load it up with military supplies and weapons, not even a single stray bullet rolling around the back of one of the trucks. Reason being they know the trucks will be stopped and searched. This is an overt move, using brightly painted trucks, and the Russians are not going to use them to drive arms to the rebels. However, if they are stopped by Ukrainian forces, who knows what will be found and waved at us as "evidence" of Russian lies!

I feel a new propaganda wave rising when the trucks are searched and found to be carrying a huge shipment of arms, lasers, plans for a death star and the rifle that Lee Harvey Oswald used to shoot Kennedy.

originally posted by: Britguy
After publicizing this aid convoy, the Russians would not be so stupid as to load it up with military supplies and weapons, not even a single stray bullet rolling around the back of one of the trucks. Reason being they know the trucks will be stopped and searched. This is an overt move, using brightly painted trucks, and the Russians are not going to use them to drive arms to the rebels. However, if they are stopped by Ukrainian forces, who knows what will be found and waved at us as "evidence" of Russian lies!

I feel a new propaganda wave rising when the trucks are searched and found to be carrying a huge shipment of arms, lasers, plans for a death star and the rifle that Lee Harvey Oswald used to shoot Kennedy.

You might be on to something, very strange if the French Foreign Minister makes such statements when it`s organized by the Red Cross.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

That`s different, because it`s military concealed as Red Cross.

But the one Dutch news-site reports it as the transporting of the goods is organized by the Red Cross.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Completely agree with you.

If US, British or indeed just about any other suitably equipped Western country would have gone in MUCH sooner AND with military support going in guns blazing if that was required to protect ex-pats living abroad.

The pace of Russian action, or rather the lack of any action is another example of the famous cool headed Russians and their pragmatism, practicality over ideology.

It seems everyone agrees that Humanitarian aid is obviously needed by the desperate and displaced victims of Kiev's brutal shelling and air strikes on their villages and homes, so Russia wanting to aid them is perfectly natural and the normal thing to do in these situations.

Should of stepped in sooner in my opinion, but that's me.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

That`s different, because it`s military concealed as Red Cross.

But the one Dutch news-site reports it as the transporting of the goods is organized by the Red Cross.

Yes, if you look up I explained what may have happened. Russia was organizing a military excursion cloaked as Red Cross aid. It was discovered. Now Russia has to push forward with a real aid mission.

The Red Cross denied involvement in the earlier "Aid Convoy".

The Red Cross on Saturday denied involvement in a Russian "humanitarian convoy" that Ukraine claimed to have stopped from crossing the border over fears it was an attempt by Moscow to invade the ex-Soviet state.

The charity said while it had received an offer from Moscow to organise aid convoys, and would welcome any effort to ease civilian suffering in the region, no such action had taken place.

reliefweb.int...

This is an elaborate ploy to allow Putin to save face in defeat. The separatists are on the brink of collapse, and blaming Putin for deserting them. By allowing Putin to send "humanitarian aid," the victors are giving Putin a way to defend himself from that charge.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Completely agree with you.

If US, British or indeed just about any other suitably equipped Western country would have gone in MUCH sooner AND with military support going in guns blazing if that was required to protect ex-pats living abroad.

So if US ex-pats start a revolution in Syria it's ok for the US to go in, invade, steal land, and give it to US ex-pats? That's what you suggest? You people are so seriously sick.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

That`s different, because it`s military concealed as Red Cross.

But the one Dutch news-site reports it as the transporting of the goods is organized by the Red Cross.

Yes, if you look up I explained what may have happened. Russia was organizing a military excursion cloaked as Red Cross aid. It was discovered. Now Russia has to push forward with a real aid mission.

The Red Cross denied involvement in the earlier "Aid Convoy".

The Red Cross on Saturday denied involvement in a Russian "humanitarian convoy" that Ukraine claimed to have stopped from crossing the border over fears it was an attempt by Moscow to invade the ex-Soviet state.

The charity said while it had received an offer from Moscow to organise aid convoys, and would welcome any effort to ease civilian suffering in the region, no such action had taken place.

reliefweb.int...

"The aid is according to Russia collected by the citizens of Moscow. The responsibility for the transport lies completely at the Red Cross.That organization has refused an armed escort of the convoy."

nos.nl... tekst%29

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

That`s different, because it`s military concealed as Red Cross.

But the one Dutch news-site reports it as the transporting of the goods is organized by the Red Cross.

Yes, if you look up I explained what may have happened. Russia was organizing a military excursion cloaked as Red Cross aid. It was discovered. Now Russia has to push forward with a real aid mission.

The Red Cross denied involvement in the earlier "Aid Convoy".

The Red Cross on Saturday denied involvement in a Russian "humanitarian convoy" that Ukraine claimed to have stopped from crossing the border over fears it was an attempt by Moscow to invade the ex-Soviet state.

The charity said while it had received an offer from Moscow to organise aid convoys, and would welcome any effort to ease civilian suffering in the region, no such action had taken place.

reliefweb.int...

"The aid is according to Russia collected by the citizens of Moscow. The responsibility for the transport lies completely at the Red Cross.That organization has refused an armed escort of the convoy."

nos.nl... tekst%29

Yes. That is the SECOND convoy. The one that was on the border that sparked the entire incident was military vehicles disguised as the Red Cross. The Red Cross confirmed it was not them, I sourced it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

That`s different, because it`s military concealed as Red Cross.

But the one Dutch news-site reports it as the transporting of the goods is organized by the Red Cross.

Yes, if you look up I explained what may have happened. Russia was organizing a military excursion cloaked as Red Cross aid. It was discovered. Now Russia has to push forward with a real aid mission.

The Red Cross denied involvement in the earlier "Aid Convoy".

The Red Cross on Saturday denied involvement in a Russian "humanitarian convoy" that Ukraine claimed to have stopped from crossing the border over fears it was an attempt by Moscow to invade the ex-Soviet state.

The charity said while it had received an offer from Moscow to organise aid convoys, and would welcome any effort to ease civilian suffering in the region, no such action had taken place.

reliefweb.int...

"The aid is according to Russia collected by the citizens of Moscow. The responsibility for the transport lies completely at the Red Cross.That organization has refused an armed escort of the convoy."

nos.nl... tekst%29

Yes. That is the SECOND convoy. The one that was on the border that sparked the entire incident was military vehicles disguised as the Red Cross. The Red Cross confirmed it was not them, I sourced it.

It was a claim made by Kiev, do you have more confirmation of this, or is this just face value ?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I`ve just read on other Dutch news site the transport is organized by the Red Cross...

History repeats itself.

The Wall Street project in Russia in 1917 used the Red Cross Mission as its operational vehicle. Unknown to its administrators, the Red Cross has been used from time to time as a vehicle or cover for revolutionary activities. The use of Red Cross markings for unauthorized purposes is not uncommon. When Tsar Nicholas was moved from Petrograd to Tobolsk allegedly for his safety (although this direction was towards danger rather than safety), the train carried Japanese Red Cross placards. The State Department files contain examples of revolutionary activity under cover of Red Cross activities.

reformed-theology.org...

That`s different, because it`s military concealed as Red Cross.

But the one Dutch news-site reports it as the transporting of the goods is organized by the Red Cross.

Yes, if you look up I explained what may have happened. Russia was organizing a military excursion cloaked as Red Cross aid. It was discovered. Now Russia has to push forward with a real aid mission.

The Red Cross denied involvement in the earlier "Aid Convoy".

The Red Cross on Saturday denied involvement in a Russian "humanitarian convoy" that Ukraine claimed to have stopped from crossing the border over fears it was an attempt by Moscow to invade the ex-Soviet state.

The charity said while it had received an offer from Moscow to organise aid convoys, and would welcome any effort to ease civilian suffering in the region, no such action had taken place.

reliefweb.int...

"The aid is according to Russia collected by the citizens of Moscow. The responsibility for the transport lies completely at the Red Cross.That organization has refused an armed escort of the convoy."

nos.nl... tekst%29

Yes. That is the SECOND convoy. The one that was on the border that sparked the entire incident was military vehicles disguised as the Red Cross. The Red Cross confirmed it was not them, I sourced it.

It was a claim made by Kiev, do you have more confirmation of this, or is this just face value ?

I imagine that the claim being made and then Russia claiming they want a Red Cross convoy points to it being true. There may even be more evidence I am busy at work I can not fact check further.

ETA: Just so we are clear I am stating my BELIEF is Russia got caught and now has to go through with the real convoy.

BBC than again says :

OSCE is to escort, no Red Cross.

www.bbc.com...

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
BBC than again says :

OSCE is to escort, no Red Cross.

www.bbc.com...

Could be, I know Ukraine and Russia differed on who they wanted to do it .. which seemed silly for Russia to quibble over as long as aid got in.

OMG ... fricking aggressive Russians. They accept Ukrainian refuges, heal Ukrainian soldiers and now they have the nerve to send food to starving people. Savages

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
BBC than again says :

OSCE is to escort, no Red Cross.

www.bbc.com...

Could be, I know Ukraine and Russia differed on who they wanted to do it .. which seemed silly for Russia to quibble over as long as aid got in.

Loads of conflicting news it seems :

- OSCE hasn`t confirmed yet

- Red Cross didn`t gave clearance for departure

- Red Cross doesn`t know what`s in the trucks

- It looks like it`s a Russian initiative (spokesman for the commission of the mission)

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Completely agree with you.

If US, British or indeed just about any other suitably equipped Western country would have gone in MUCH sooner AND with military support going in guns blazing if that was required to protect ex-pats living abroad.

So if US ex-pats start a revolution in Syria it's ok for the US to go in, invade, steal land, and give it to US ex-pats? That's what you suggest? You people are so seriously sick.

Straying dangerously close to insulting language there pal...i suggest you edit this post to take out the parts that break ATS T&C....

You obviously want to provoke a negative response, by posting negative accusations about my mental clarity or stability, or lack-thereof...i'd advise you against that route...it makes you look desperate to make a point - at any cost, including abandoning common sense and ATS rules on civility and etiquette.

Your choice though...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I am not a hypocrite. I suggest you stop name calling and personal attacks, it is against ATS T&C's.

I base my opinions on education and research. I won't answer questions about individual groups with a broad sweep yes or no. I am not an idiot.

This thread also isn't about Russian politics generally, it is about a specific situation so you are being off topic.

Your attempt at derailing the thread using vaguely disguised anti Russian propaganda, hatred and straw man arguments has failed. If anyone could be accused of hypocrisy it is you.

Here's my opinion again. Now if you want to know my opinion on anything else you could try making a specific question in a thread and I will and choose whether or not to reply. There is a format on ATS, try using it appropriately.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
The people of Eastern Ukraine should be allowed a vote on independence and whether they wish being a separate state to Ukraine, either self governing or part of Russia.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The Red Cross on Saturday denied involvement in a Russian "humanitarian convoy" that Ukraine claimed to have stopped from crossing the border over fears it was an attempt by Moscow to invade the ex-Soviet state.

Yeah right.

Because the massive military might of the Russian Federation, if they had indeed decided to 'invade Ukraine' is going to be disguised as Red Cross aid volunteers, could ever be prevented from crossing at border by a handful of Ukrainian border guards.

And now...back to reality.