Where is YOUR moral compass? Is it broken? Do you have one?

In a thread just now one of our members justifies the wholesale killing of children because the enemy is using schools to fire mortars from.

In the USA the Police raid houses and point guns at children because their parents may have been naughty. That is called child abuse where I come from.

It seems that Governments, Military and the Police have this crazy idea that if you do something obviously wrong or even suspect you of something then we can do whatever it takes, that there are no consequences because, well, you started it!

People used to have a moral compass.

Sometimes it switched on. The bloke stopping the tank in Tienanmen Square, the naked little girl in Vietnam fleeing from napalm.

Such images could galvanize a nation. Napalm was banned. Minefields are banned (US excepted)

But right now, in Gaza, the IDF says it is OK to Bomb schools because .... STOP THERE.

IT IS NOT OK TO KILL CHILDREN I don't give a rats bum what the provocation is. IT IS WRONG

It is also wrong to target civilians and to bomb entire buildings because a few bad guys might be in there.

IN ANY WAR CIVILIAN CASUALTIES MATTER, CHILDREN MATTER

I do not care if it is Gaza or the war on drugs or the war on this or that or whatever.

POLICE .. it is not OK to aim weapons at children! I don't care for excuses!

MILITARY .. It is not OK to target civilians. I don't care for excuses.

In Gaza right now HAMAS is a POS. It uses little children as shields.

The IDF are bigger POSs because they BOMB little children.

Where has the world's Moral Compass gone, for gone it has.

Hey, I still have mine, do you?

P

a reply to: pheonix358
You really need to lookup the world moral and any related words that define it sometime.

a reply to: pheonix358

Clap...clap... clap. Where the hell are peoples' hearts these days?

I do have one and it lets me know it's alive and well several times a day every day.

Your OP is great and I couldn't agree more if I tried. There is never justification to harm children. I don't care what color they are, what religion they are, what country they were born into, or what kind of people they were unfortunate enough to have for parents.

A child does not exist that was able to choose any of those things on their own, thus being punished for any of those things makes no sense at all. Period.

I guess children are now "collateral damage" and I find that just as heart breaking, sad, and sick as you do. I am a mother and seeing any child be hurt or killed fills me with an anger and sadness that words can't do justice to.

When one can not distinguish if this type of behavior is good or bad, then one has stooped to being lower than the most base predators in the animal kingdom IMO.

originally posted by: mattsawaufo
a reply to: pheonix358
You really need to lookup the world moral and any related words that define it sometime.

en.wiktionary.org...

(usually countable, idiomatic, ethics) An inner sense which distinguishes what is right from what is wrong, functioning as a guide (like the needle of a compass) for morally appropriate behavior.  

usually countable, idiomatic, ethics) A person, belief system, etc. serving as a guide for morally appropriate behavior.  [quotations ▼][quotations ▼]

What is it about that definition did the OP get wrong in your opinion??

originally posted by: mattsawaufo
a reply to: pheonix358
You really need to lookup the world moral and any related words that define it sometime.

WHY?

moral ˈmɒr(ə)l/ adjective adjective: moral

1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour. "the moral dimensions of medical intervention"
synonyms: virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded, right-minded, principled, proper, honourable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, irreproachable, truthful, law-abiding, clean-living, chaste, pure, blameless, sinless
More "a very moral man"
antonyms: immoral, bad, dishonourable
concerned with or derived from the code of behaviour that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society. "they have a moral obligation to pay the money back"
synonyms: ethical; More social, behavioural; to do with right and wrong "moral issues" examining the nature of ethics and the foundations of good and bad character and conduct. "moral philosophers" 2. holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct. "he prides himself on being a highly moral and ethical person"

noun noun: moral; plural noun: morals
1. a lesson that can be derived from a story or experience. "the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has"
synonyms: lesson, message, meaning, significance, signification, import, point, precept, teaching More "the moral of the story"
2. standards of behaviour; principles of right and wrong. "the corruption of public morals" synonyms: moral code, code of ethics, moral standards, moral values, principles, principles of right and wrong, rules of conduct, standards/principles of behaviour, standards, morality, sense of morality, scruples, ideals More

What? You couldn't do that yourself, or because you want to make everything foggy and hazy.

My compass sees straight through that crap.

P

a reply to: pheonix358

To be fair I don't think the poster was saying it's OK to target schools. My impression was the point they were making was Hamas are being dicks by firing mortars next to schools.

But yes I think life has very little value now as it always has. The elite are the only ones that count we are expendable.

Marc

One considering the extremely limited area of land that gaza is .. its large population density .. the fact that there is NO safe place for the people of gaza to go because they are penned in like cattle . There are no areas away from people to launch attacks from . Gaza is the worlds biggest death camp.

And before the rabid israel internet defense force accuse me of being pro-hamas -wrong Im simply stating the cold facts of the area the people are imprisoned in . I dont support any of the murdering bastards on any side in the world .

There is no justifying israels acts.

And yes my sense of justice has landed me in hot water several times over the years .. but will continue to speak out against the murdering bastards of the world.
Someone must speak for the victims whose voices go unheard ...

Meh ... time for another drink ...

I wish I had a Morel compass, they are hard to find in the woods.

Oh...wrong spelling.

The word Morals has ties to religion. Most people think that morals is a part of religion. It is not. Morals are the root of civility. Some strange stuff was added to morals by religions though, like virgins before marriage, but I guess it was there to prevent spreading disease.

a reply to: pheonix358
Well it is always hovering above me.
Every now and then, I am able to grasp it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

S&F

I am sometimes judged as being a person of low moral standards. Usually by religious types who don't approve of my hedonistic ways.
These are the same people who have no problem with bombing civilians in the name of some mad god.
Isn't the first rule of their religion "Thou shalt not kill?"
Have they never read the damn book?
Wave your flags and bombs away. Kill'em all. Let Gawd sort'em out.

a reply to: pheonix358

Okay. You put this in the discussion forum. I'd have left it alone if it was in the Rant Forum.

There's a time and a place for everything. There was a time for dropping nukes on Japan. There was a time for firebombing their cities. There was a time for flattening the entire industrial sector of Germany. On a broad scale collateral damage is a fact of war.

Targeting a building ... called a whatever (school, hospital, church, etc.), doesn't mean it's not a legitimate military target. I don't think classes were even in session. Schools are no longer schools when they're used as armories. An ambulance becomes a troop carrier when it's used to transport insurgents. The IDF does NOT indiscriminately lay waste to civilian infrastructure.

Don't get me wrong, I can't condone collateral damage ... but I understand. Two wrongs will never make a right. No matter the cause ... kids are innocent. The guys behind the triggers have to live with what they've done. Unless they're sociopathic (which isn't a good fit for the military) they pay. No one can punish you as harshly as you yourself.

When has war ever been moral???


In a perfect world conflict wouldn't arise but the world isn't perfect and war will never be moral. Smart bombs, smart weapons systems have made it to where there are fewer non combatant casualties but it doesn't come close to 100%.

I don't like that children are being killed in retaliatory strikes but what is the option? If there is no retaliation on the areas where combatants are firing missiles and the like it is the same as if they have a hardened bunker immune to retaliation.

The only way the killing will stop is when both sides stop fighting until then be prepared to see the results of war, when the results are bad enough then hopefully they will both lose their taste for it. There are no easy answers but if technology was what it was 50 years ago the results would be much worse of course the conflict would probably be over by now as well as one side would have been completely flattened by now.

I don't watch TV nor do I try to be an armchair general when learning of these things.

a reply to: Snarl
There were people in the schools whose homes were destroyed in the bombing. They were designated un refugee centers .

a reply to: pheonix358

Right now, the military/industrial complex has the technology to target any individual on the planet and end them surgically with NO collateral damage. So, you're right, there is NO justifiable excuse for the murder of children and others who cannot defend themselves or chose not to, it's simply not acceptable, there must be an immoral or unethical agenda at play.

Unfortunately, the world is controlled by psychopaths desperately in need of gene therapy, psychotherapy or legal actions that result in green solutions like rope. Crimes against humanity and the innocent have been proceeding literally unchecked for generations using wars of religion, retaliation and resource acquisition.

Governments are now the enablers for, and/or wholesale terrorist organizations. The mainstream media pumps out that wrong is right, down is up and being criminal is respectable, even honored (eg. Obama, Mandela and deKlerk for peace prizes), and honesty and integrity is punished. As a species, unless we force a change in worldview and the political topography back to something morally and ethically acceptable, we're done. We all have to become the people we would respect, trust and chose as our friends.

I used to know hundreds of people I would stop a bullet for, now I only know a handful and it's only been 20 years of societal downhill slide.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Expat888
a reply to: Snarl
There were people in the schools whose homes were destroyed in the bombing. They were designated un refugee centers .

Expat, I cannot recall crossing words with you on this subject. I will not start now. I know where you're coming from on the issues ... and I have the utmost respect for your point of view.

-Cheers

a reply to: Snarl
No worries .. no intention crossing swords m8 .. fully understand and respect your views had just attempted to clear up the picture regarding the population density there ..

You now what the really sad thing is ?

That most don`t realize the blood is on our own hands (only very few know we are the ones who make it possible that it all happens). Most are too scared about losing their jobs/houses, and by so keeping the system in play...and that will not change unless there are enough who wake up to that fact...it`s easy to stop it, just don`t participate with enough population in the West with the system.

a reply to: pheonix358
I take it you have not been in combat? Developed nations usually in war do their best to limit civilian causalities, but if someone is firing at you, you fire back, believe it or not, that part never seems to change in a WAR. Hamas is using their civilian population as human shields, you know that, I know that, the world knows that.

If Hamas was they great and heroic government they claim to be they wouldn't view their civilian population as human slave scum, there to be used for the purpose of the state. If Hamas cared they would actually protect their people, but the people voted for this government, and they got what they voted for. War is the health of the state, heaven forbid the slave population start focusing on what the government is doing with the aid they receive.............

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: pheonix358

Okay. You put this in the discussion forum. I'd have left it alone if it was in the Rant Forum.

There's a time and a place for everything. There was a time for dropping nukes on Japan. There was a time for firebombing their cities. There was a time for flattening the entire industrial sector of Germany. On a broad scale collateral damage is a fact of war.

Little Boy and Fat Man were a test. Japan was on her knees. Japan had even offered conditional surrender weeks before the bombs were used.

Collateral damage is no longer a fact of war with a modern army. Look how the Chinese Embassy was taken out in Belgrade in 1999. Pin point.