IRS Strikes Deal With Atheists To Monitor Sermons And Homilies

You guys don't think the government agents aren't already in your churches monitoring for domestic terrorists? George Bush made it so.

I actually support some specific tax exemptions for some church programs that directly help the poor and needy. Needy being homeless, drug addicted, etc.

But, let's face it, religion has become not only big business, but a major player in politics.

They have majorly abused the tax exempt privilege.

They need to be monitored.

This makes my day

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me,

There is a local church I attend many years ago, they have had safe houses for years to go to in preparation, for that day will come when they will close the churches down that don't tow the line,that government version of Christianity.

Why is it only Christianity they are singling out?

a reply to: xDeadcowx

Nobody is "Yo go after a churchs money"

That is the function of the IRS.

Even if they aren't breaking any laws.

See Lerner.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

I would love to see the IRS go after the CAIR's of this country.

Crickets.........

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, we can argue over who did what first all day, but at the end of the day truth is that gays (and atheists working with them) will use this to try to force us to accept them and do and say what they want. We will not be able to say "man and woman" anywhere for any reason anymore, and this IRS ruling is the start of it.

This is about their revenge not about equality.

a reply to: Annee

At the tune of $4 BILLION a year, if there patriotic enough to engage in the politics then they should be patriotic enough to help fund it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: cavtrooper7

They do make their own religions. There are denominations of Christianity that openly accept gays and marry them. What's your point?

And those will be the only "acceptable" ones.

a reply to: beezzer

right to life?

A church can't talk about right to life?

Who will do the monitoring? are they going to put spies in the church?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Did you read the topic ?

Atheists went to the IRS to make them churches 'behave'.

They were not just talking about one.

They also weren't talking about all either like your sweeping generalization implies. Some != All.

Many of the early colonists came here to escape oppression by the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who only wanted to make those offshoot religious groups "behave" properly just like the atheists want the IRS to do.

I guess things finally come full circle and the 1st Amendment no longer means what it says it does or all religions are equal but some are more equal than others.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: beezzer

right to life?

A church can't talk about right to life?

Who will do the monitoring? are they going to put spies in the church?

Why Christianity? Because Christianity is the biggest threat to government.

Monitoring and spies? No. They will openly monitor any "unacceptable" behavior.

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: neo96

Where in the article did you read that the IRS or the atheists were attempting to deprive the churches from being charitable and helping out their fellow man? I must have missed that part.

What i read was that they wanted to IRS to hold churches accountable to the LAW. If they are using their church to promote political issue, legislation and candidates, they are breaking the law and will lose their tax-exempt status.

This will not affect the entire religion, just the specific church that is violation of the law.

Are you proposing that churches and religions should not have to follow the law?

The situation is simple. Churches are breaking the law, and some atheists are calling them out on it. If the church is not breaking the law, they have nothing to worry about. If they are breaking, they should face the consequences.

Marriage is a religious issue in every religion out there, but no .... it is now apparently a political issue. No church can do what it does without teachings on basic things like marriage and life.

That's like saying teach reading all you want, but you can't teach the vowels while you're at it.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Stormdancer777

I would love to see the IRS go after the CAIR's of this country.

Crickets.........

I hear ya, this is that not so subtle war on Christianity no one seems to think is happening, one step at a time until they are blowing up churches like in Iraq.

Don't think that this can't happen here look at how fast it happened in Russia.

I have a friend thats once very devout Christian son, after two years in college is now turning against his faith.

en.wikipedia.org...
2 Soviet tactics
3 Anti-religious campaign 1917–1921
4 Anti-religious campaign 1921–1928
5 Anti-religious campaign 1928–1941
6 World War II rapprochement
7 Postwar era
8 Resumption of anti-religious campaign
9 1964–1970s
10 Renewal of persecution in 1970s
11 Penetration of churches by Soviet secret services




Does this not look familiar to anyone?

In November 1917, within weeks of the revolution, the People's Commissariat for Enlightenment was established, which a month later created the All-Russian Union of Teachers-Internationalists for the purpose of removing religious instruction from school curricula. In order to intensify the anti-religious propaganda in the school system, the Chief Administration for Political Enlightenment (Glavpolitprosvet) was established in November 1920.[31]

Lenin's decree on the separation of church and state in early 1918 deprived the formerly official church of its status of legal person, the right to own property, or to teach religion in both state and private schools or to any group of minors.[32] The decree abolished the privileges of the church and thus ended the alliance between church and state. The clergy openly attacked the decree. The leadership of the Church issued a special appeal to believers to obstruct the enforcement of the decree.[33]

In addition, the Decree “On the Separation of the Church from the State and the School from the Church" also determined the relationship between school and church. “School shall be separated from church,” the Decree said. “The teaching of religious doctrines in all the state and public, as well as private educational institutions where general subjects are taught shall not be permitted. Citizens may teach and be taught religion in private.” [33]

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: Annee

At the tune of $4 BILLION a year, if there patriotic enough to engage in the politics then they should be patriotic enough to help fund it.

Oh please, that money was pretty much all tithed by people who donated out of pocket, average people whose money had already been taxed once by the government. Why do they need to tax it again? Theyr'e just greedy for any excuse to steal more of our hard-earned dollars, and in this case you'll help them do it because you don't like churches.

a reply to: neo96

"Athiest's are not godless as they proclaim.
They believe in God and using it's hand the IRS to smite their 'enemies'."

Dear George "neo" Orwell, You are making my head spin. Are there any people who do not believe in God?
Since they are not atheists, what word would best describe them?

Wait, give me chance to sit down before you answer.

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: neo96

"Athiest's are not godless as they proclaim.
They believe in God and using it's hand the IRS to smite their 'enemies'."

Dear George "neo" Orwell, You are making my head spin. Are there any people who do not believe in God?
Since they are not atheists, what word would best describe them?

Wait, give me chance to sit down before you answer.

I think he is alluding to the fact that the devotion most believers assign to God is directed instead to the State by some unbelievers (or whatever their cause du jour happens to be).

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's keeping churches honest and not having them turn into a political tax-exempt PAC. If churches are going to be political entities, they should be taxed.

Why do you think that PACs are taxed? They aren't: 527 Organization

A 527 organization or 527 group is a type of U.S. tax-exempt organization organized under Section 527 of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. § 527). A 527 group is created primarily to influence the selection, nomination, election, appointment or defeat of candidates to federal, state or local public office.

Technically, almost all political committees, including state, local, and federal candidate committees, traditional political action committees, "Super PACs", and political parties are "527s."

Do you want to take away their tax-exempt status as religious organizations and give it back to them as political organizations? I'm not sure that makes any sense.

Boy, this is a tough one.

I agree with Annee that some churches have become big money-makers and they have abused the tax-exempt benefit, but that is far from being the majority. Most churches have small congregations and survive with what little is given to the church. Can't imagine them having to take on the burden of paying taxes.

And I don't like the idea of them having to be monitored. In some churches, politics and religion go hand-in-hand..but do we really need some IRS agent sitting in on their RELIGIOUS gathering?

I don't know what the best solution is, but I'd rather error on the side of religious freedom and free speech than to place government agents inside churches just because of the tax issue.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

When government starts using tax-exempt status as a carrot/stick motivator, then we're basically screwed.

The only solution? (in my humble opinion)

Eliminate tax-exempt status. EVERYONE PAYS!

That way there is no conflict to what can or cannot be said.

a reply to: ketsuko

I think he is alluding to the fact that the devotion most believers assign to God is directed instead to the State by some unbelievers (or whatever their cause du jour happens to be).

Yep.

We have had centuries of men claiming to do 'gods' bidding.

Here do this, here do that.

Sacrifice for the 'common good'. ETC.

The only thing they have done is replace one 'church' for a 'new and improved' version.

Which is just as corrupt, and abusive as what they decry.