Our understanding of existence demands miracles.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I thought you may have misunderstood what I was saying.
No biggy.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: TzarChasm

I thought you may have misunderstood what I was saying.
No biggy.

I don't think I did. I sat for a few moments and thought about my answer, if that tells you anything.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Tzar, I absolutely apologise, but if you go back to page
three and read my last post again? I think you'll understand
what I mean. Totally my bad tho as I edited late. A thousand
pardons.

a reply to: randyvs

No problem, but my answer hasn't changed. I can elaborate and say that our understanding of existence is irrelevant to existence itself. Stars will be born and will die and the planets and moons fly around whether we understand the forces responsible or not. Your spirituality makes as much difference to the universe as yesterdays lunch.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Alright, as long as we're on the same page.

If the spirituality of some have no relevance on the universe why would then the body be made of universal materials...

And so if the body of man IS known or accepted to be made of Universal / STAR material let alone the SOUL then there does exist relevance between the two, yes? Even if not understood by some unaware of the connections.

NAMASTE*******

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
If the spirituality of some have no relevance on the universe why would then the body be made of universal materials...

This is strange reasoning. What else would a person's body be made up from other than universal materials? Extrauniversal materials? And what does the body being made of universal materials have to do with spirituality? I'm missing an assumption somewhere that you are making.

And so if the body of man IS known or accepted to be made of Universal / STAR material let alone the SOUL then there does exist relevance between the two, yes? Even if not understood by some unaware of the connections.

NAMASTE*******

Your argument uses circular logic to try to prove spirituality. It argues that since the body and therefore the soul is made of universal materials then since the soul is made of universal materials as well therefore spirituality exists. Well, a soul is just an extension of spirituality. You need to first prove that a soul exists, then you can start talking about the existence of spirituality.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
If the spirituality of some have no relevance on the universe why would then the body be made of universal materials...

And so if the body of man IS known or accepted to be made of Universal / STAR material let alone the SOUL then there does exist relevance between the two, yes? Even if not understood by some unaware of the connections.

NAMASTE*******

i understand your point and have run into it befre. perhaps i can put 'er this way: if you owned a dog, that dog possesses the same biological materials and functions you do. its organic makeup is identical to yours in many ways. but that doesnt mean the dog shares or is even aware of, say, your political leanings. the dog is concerned with the fact that its body requires nutrients and that squirrel in the tree stimulates its desire to attend to that requirement. similarly, the universe is more concerned with following the laws that bind it than any concept you may have of a soul or afterlife or higher power, and evidently on a much less conscious scale as well. science may prove this wrong at some point, but it has not yet. i think your mistake is in presuming the fact that your made of atoms produced by the universe means that the universe behaves like you do. but a car does not act like a magnet just because it has iron in it.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
similarly, the universe is more concerned with following the laws that bind it than any concept you may have of a soul or afterlife or higher power, and evidently on a much less conscious scale as well.

"WE" must acknowledge however within your argument that this above post is based on your current perceptions and awareness of reality subjectively yes?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
science may prove this wrong at some point, but it has not yet.

yes...

a reply to: TzarChasm

But the car will not float off into the cosmos due to its mineral compounds on the micro level or atoms interacting with the Planets atoms associated with its location?

Does 1 feel we carry universal properties within behaviors demonstrated-yes
The universe is constantly processing and consuming energy as do beings who require LIFE
The universe is always in motion as are many beings and Celestial bodies within it
Things are generated and then destroyed or transitioned like STARS to black holes so does the STAR ever die? Even if it doesn't become black hole and makes say nebula for MORE STARS to grow?
As does the process of decomposition occur with living matter it grows then transitions then is decayed by smaller energies which grow them and their surrounding.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

"WE" must acknowledge however within your argument that this above post is based on your current perceptions and awareness of reality subjectively yes?

i would say thats what YOUR conclusion is based in, given your experiences can only be reproduced subjectively, thru your mind and by your understanding. whereas the mechanics and laws binding this universe will continue to operate exactly as before whether or not either of us remain to observe them.

that is what i acknowledge. i am open to being further educated if you have the means to do so.

I know I have a spirit/soul because I feel it.
Everytime some one hurts my feelings.
When I'm elated.
I highly doubt that just an idea
of such, would catch on and remain so popular thru
out history. If it were just a passing fad or some urban
rumor.

a reply to: randyvs

I guess? Lol. I'm not as "argumentative" as I used to be so that might be a part of it, plus my views are always changing. When I first came here I tried to "convert" people, now I just share my thoughts and let people believe as they want without getting angry over it because it's pointless to do so.

originally posted by: randyvs

I know I have a spirit/soul because I feel it.
Everytime some one hurts my feelings.

i daresay thats a chemical reaction. i know that such an emotion can be reproduced with the right chemicals or eletric stimulis.

I highly doubt that just an idea
of such, would catch on and remain so popular thru
out history. If it were just a passing fad or some urban
rumor.

it would if everyone had the same insecurity.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

want without getting angry over it because it's pointless to do so.

Much agreed Light ! I still have to catch myself from time to time.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Right! Dope and torture does have it's effects.
But I've heard it before and I just don't buy it.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: TzarChasm

Right! Dope and torture does have it's effects.

But I've heard it before and I just don't buy it.

i dont buy your snake oil either, so again, we're in the same boat.

a reply to: TzarChasm

But I'm not try'n to sell any snake oil or push
anything on anyone. I hope you know I'm just examining
the sensibilities that are involved here. And trying to understand
how it is people can act like my perceptions are so hokey and
unbelievable, when in the end. Thier own ideas make even less
sense. It's like big deal, you choose not to have certain ideas
about reality? I don't give a crap, until someone makes out like
my idea of reality is just way out there and they have a better
explanation. And so I poke around thru threads like this looking
to find one and you know what? Not one, ever.

a reply to: randyvs

ok, so i think ive got it kinda figured out. here's how it has gone before: ignorance, science, spirituality. ignorance tells us there is something we dont know, science helps us figure it out, spirituality tells us what to do with it. but then there are some people who go 'spirituality, ignorance'. spirituality says its like this, and ignorance doesnt give us a better answer so we continually fall back on spirituality to answer every question. science never enters the equation unless its to pretty up the spiritual stuff so it sounds better.

point being, spirituality ought to be the last element in any scientific investigation because of how little science it requires. and the less science involved, the more ignorance as a result.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Which in turn leaves many in the darkness ONLY attached to what they scientifically physically perceive why remaining ignorant to that of which they do not see. Further allowing potential energies access to some to do as they wish as they/sleeping don't even know what to look for metaphysically - Spiritually.

Considering advanced beings-

they can manipulate your total reality and the way you will perceive it and so make a cage/containment that can only be evaluated from within by those only seeking to understand what they see/physically, ignoring third or more eyes perceptions totally...