Our understanding of existence demands miracles.

A reduced flash of what I'm getting at.

Oh look, a big bang happening all by itself. = MIRACLE!

Oh look protein molecules bonding together permanently unless
interceded upon by the will of man. = MIRACLE!

God created everything in however long. = Not so much a MIRACLE or an
absurdity.

Whadda ya think?

"Our understanding"

^those two words speak volumes.
That which we don't yet understand, fully, does seem miraculous.

a reply to: randyvs

Not understanding equals lack of control.
If we can't control it then something else is in control. So the options are just add more time to the equations and all is good. You can live a life accountable to only time and yourself. It's a great way to eliminate God from the picture.

As for me I put my trust and faith in The Lord, Creator of Heaven and Earth. We were ment to live for so muh more.

a reply to: randyvs

I think your heart is in the right place, but what you call a miracle, I call undiscovered scientific explanation.

But here's the part that keeps me up at night, pondering:

Human beings, by their very nature, seemed predisposed, whether by design, or evolution -- to be "miracle pattern recognition" experts. First we see a miracle, eventually -- we find a relatively mundane answer to its phenomena. My favorite example is lightning: specifically its source, composition and structure. For thousands of years men told tales of thunder gods, heavenly battles between good and evil, and even virgin births -- related to thunderstorms and lightning strikes. Eventually, we unlocked some of the mystery, and the explanation for thunder and lightning shifted from the mythic to the mundane, and we moved on to the next miracle. This drive to cycle through these stages when confronted with phenomena we do not recognise or understand is fundamental to our evolution as a species, guided by a creator or not. They in no way preclude one another, except in the most literal of senses, and -- when taken together -- express a "universal" truth about us as a species, I think. I am groping for it even now, at 45 years old, and I can't quite articulate what it is from here, but I do know this: there is a reason we first go mythic when we speak of things we don't understand, even now in 2014. It is just as important as our drive to understand our world in the language of the mundane. I wouldn't write one off, just yet. In fact - I suspect both urges are critical to our future survival as a species. S+F

Your argument boils down to this:

The term miracle and the phrase "I don't know" are interchangeable.

as much as i love miracles, my exploration of the abovetopsecret search engine tells me this is only the 2,485th time this subject has been breached. is there something new we should be aware of?

originally posted by: snowspirit
"Our understanding"

^those two words speak volumes.
That which we don't yet understand, fully, does seem miraculous.

A sharp mind indeed.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

I really really like this.

I suspect both urges are critical to our future survival as a species. S+F

do i not get an answer? or is the first post the entire argument?

Sartre suggested that we always look for that which is missing. The blank spot.

It is within the unknown we can place ourselves, I say. We look for the potentials- which lie in the void.

I would have to agree with you, if something came from nothing then that is a miracle, if this 'something' has always existed, that too is a miracle. There's no way around it in my opinion, either way you have to account for the unexplainable.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I would have to agree with you, if something came from nothing then that is a miracle, if this 'something' has always existed, that too is a miracle. There's no way around it in my opinion, either way you have to account for the unexplainable.

the unexplainable, or the hitherto unexplained?

originally posted by: randyvs
Whadda ya think?

Accepted randyvs

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

a reply to: randyvs

since you havent brought forth any new information, im gonna take a crack at it as is:

the universe came from nothing. miracle.

god came from nothing. not a miracle.

strange disconnect in logic.

further analysis:

god can come from nothing.

the universe cannot.

this has not been explained.

a reply to: randyvs

I think that even the most esoteric people seek to explain the mysteries of existence. They say 'karma' to make sense of why life is so often unfair and salute 'God's will' to answer the question of how the universe came to be. Whatever the phrase we use, it's always a way to offer explanations.

*Miracle* is just another term to use when something appeals to us.

As a species, we don't know enough about some things and ought to investigate, test and explore ways to find the answers. We've done that for long enough that illnesses are no longer witches' curses and planets haven't been pushed through the heavens by angels or demons for three or four centuries.

Stopping the pursuit of knowledge because we've reached a 'miracle' is bad practice. I'm reminded of the avatar of Xtraeme >>

a reply to: Kandinsky

I don't think miracle means stop anything tho Kandy. On the
contrary I think it always means pull thru and move forward.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Kandinsky

I don't think miracle means stop anything tho Kandy. On the
contrary I think it always means pull thru and move forward.

you mean never accwept a miracle at face value?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: randyvs

since you havent brought forth any new information, im gonna take a crack at it as is:

the universe came from nothing. miracle.

god came from nothing. not a miracle.

strange disconnect in logic.

further analysis:

god can come from nothing.

the universe cannot.

this has not been explained.

"You wait your turn", as was said in "Interview with a vampire".

I'll be getting to you but I have a meeting so you're up when I come back .

a reply to: randyvs

ah! very well. i shall await your return.

God created everything in however long. = Not so much a MIRACLE or an
absurdity.

It is a miracle and absurdity if God is an absurdity.