Why must we all trust in only faith? And how do the people who know, know?

a reply to: mOjOm

So he's not those things????

Or you don't know one way or the other???

It doesn't come from the Bible, and in fact it works against that idea.
If God was, the He would be evil, as the paradox says.
It also goes against the classical ideas about God.
I think those attributes now ascribed to God are Medieval hold-overs.

"To who has, more will be given."

Is that the same as "The Rich get Richer". Because if not, I'm not sure I get what you're saying there.

It's a paraphrase of Matthew 13:12.

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: GoShredAK

All my life I have strived to know Jesus . . .

What do you mean by "know"?

Is it an intellectual thing, or do you mean that you want Jesus to do something as part of a personal relationship?

You mention "praying" in the OP of the other thread you started 6 months ago.

What is the purpose of these prayers?

What I suspect is that you may be asking for something that really isn't high priority on Jesus' agenda.

If you look at the gospels, what you find is a person who wants other people to go out of their way to go out and evangelize in his name.

I think that if you were doing that, working at bringing people to Jesus, then Jesus would come to you in a very real way, in order to help you in your preaching the gospel,

If you are just looking for benefits that an all-powerful entity should be capable of giving out, then maybe Jesus isn't really interested in those wants.

I don't know, I'm not a christian, I think religion is evil, but I have experienced physical healing just by invoking his name.

I'm trying to figure this out and feel like a lame servant for even questioning, but I must.

Your brain has the power to heal you with or with out outside interference. That's where the plecebo effect comes from.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
a reply to: pennydrops

Jesus says the same thing in the gospels. He despised religions for the exact same reasons. He warns against them in all forms. Belief is a personal thing to be shared with like minded people. Its not for profit making and control like ALL man made organisations....not just religous ones.

Well written, this reminds me of why I am reluctant to relinquish my love for Jesus, because the man you just described has all of my respect.

Don't you think after thousands of years of searching the religious would have come up with some form of proof? I mean look what science has proven in ONE century. Then ask what proof there is of Christianity and remember literally billions of people have spent THOUSANDS of years trying to show some form.....any form of proof.

Jesus/god is not something that can be proven to anyone except those who do not require proof. That's the definition of faith.

a reply to: GoShredAK

People who claim to "know" don't really know. They BELIEVE. They believe they know. But they don't actually know.

That's why FAITH is so important in religion. Faith is belief without proof. Belief WITHOUT knowing.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: GoShredAK

People who claim to "know" don't really know. They BELIEVE. They believe they know. But they don't actually know.

That's why FAITH is so important in religion. Faith is belief without proof. Belief WITHOUT knowing.

In other circles it's also known as being "foolish"..... Lol

a reply to: the2ofusr1
What is faith? Good question. To me, faith is a type of belief that is built upon a trust that is non-rational (I say non-rational as opposed to irrational - major difference). Belief is a very broad range of affirmation. Through faith I might believe in God, and through rational logic I can believe in mathematics, or gravity.

originally posted by: GoShredAK

How come God can't DIRECTLY and personally address his most heartfelt believers?

Because all contact between the Numinous and the conscious mind is mediated by the personal unconscious mind. The unconscious mind will put the Numinous into symbolic form before it reaches your conscious mind, so that it doesn't break you. We couldn't handle direct contact. We would get blown away into madness, like a gnat in a storm.

There is a reservoir of mythological symbolism in the unconscious mind, and the archetypes of the collective unconscious take it and wear it like costumes. In one culture, they will wear the costumes of Christianity. In another, the costumes of Buddhism. And so on.

Learn to see past the costumes, instead of taking them literally as fundamentalists do. That is the mistake of fundamentalism.

Comparative religion, comparative mysticism, and comparative mythology can help.

In the title of your thread, you ask how people who know come to know. They know because they reach the mystical core of world religion and myth, via altered states of consciousness.



"The gnostics know, but what they know cannot be communicated. It is not in the power of the possessors of this most delightful station...to coin a word which would denote what they know."

—Ibn 'Arabi (Muslim)

Beyond the waking state, beyond the dreaming state, and even beyond the state of deep dreamless sleep there is a fourth state of consciousness that few reach. Aim for it.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: minkmouse

originally posted by: ArtemisE
Because some things are real weather you believe in them or not.

Can you please name a few

The sun rising and falling. An apple falling. Microwave ovens. Airplanes. Math. Science.

How about love?

a reply to: GoShredAK

Being a Christian doesn't mean belonging to a church. If you believe in Christ and his sacrifice and resurrection, you are a form of Christian. If you believe that through that belief you can be saved, you are a Christian. The only prerequisite He ever had for a "church" was a gathering of two or more believers.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: minkmouse

originally posted by: ArtemisE
Because some things are real weather you believe in them or not.

Can you please name a few

The sun rising and falling. An apple falling. Microwave ovens. Airplanes. Math. Science.

How about love?

The known chemical reaction we call love is real, as well as the evolutionary advantage "love" gives a species.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: GoShredAK

Being a Christian doesn't mean belonging to a church. If you believe in Christ and his sacrifice and resurrection, you are a form of Christian. If you believe that through that belief you can be saved, you are a Christian. The only prerequisite He ever had for a "church" was a gathering of two or more believers.

You gotta admit it's kinda hilarious.....


Do what ever you want! As long as you believe in me you go to heaven!

Molest a kid? Just repent you get paradise!

Kill a child? Believe in me and live in paradise forever!

Genocide? hell pops did it all the time! :p


How much sense does that actually make?

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: minkmouse

originally posted by: ArtemisE
Because some things are real weather you believe in them or not.

Can you please name a few

The sun rising and falling. An apple falling. Microwave ovens. Airplanes. Math. Science.

How about love?

The known chemical reaction we call love is real, as well as the evolutionary advantage "love" gives a species.

In other words, love does not exist. What a cold world yours must be.

The answer is mingled seed and the power that could be wielded by some that may posses the same telepathic abilities. It is for your own protection that he doesn't come through like wearing headphones. When the communication and telepathy blocks are lifted we will see a new age but clensing must take place first.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: minkmouse

originally posted by: ArtemisE
Because some things are real weather you believe in them or not.

Can you please name a few

The sun rising and falling. An apple falling. Microwave ovens. Airplanes. Math. Science.

How about love?

The known chemical reaction we call love is real, as well as the evolutionary advantage "love" gives a species.

In other words, love does not exist. What a cold world yours must be.

Of course love exists. It's a chemical reaction. I have an 11 year old daughter who is my whole world, but that doesn't mean it's unexplainable or some intangible thing.

The universe is an amazing, breathtaking thing. No diety required. I'm sorry you need it to be an intelligent design to appreciate it's awe and beauty.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Reducing love to something that is not love is all well and good, as long as one remembers to build it back up again. It looks to me like you are reducing it down and then leaving it down, with all due respect. That is the error of reductionism. You live in a sterile lab, when you could be living in a poem.

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: ArtemisE

Reducing love to something that is not love is all well and good, as long as one remembers to build it back up again. It looks to me like you are reducing it down and then leaving it down, with all due respect. That is the error of reductionism.

Actually I think your down playing chemical reactions. There are parasites that can completely control the actions of its host just by releasing a couple chemicals. Explosions are chemical reactions. The right (or wrong) chemical could take away your ability to love.



I'm not down playing love your underestimating the power of chemical reactions.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Perhaps. But I have had my share of experience as a host, and as a symbiont, through initiation into my Peyote Church. And I can tell you with no doubt that the mysteries of consciousness includes mind-over-chemicals, just as it includes mind-over-matter.

Beneath the surface appearance of dualism, there is ontological unity. That's what makes Love both non-local and supreme, because it, unlike hate and fear, leads to blissful unity of lover and beloved at the deepest root of reality.

Hey OP, just in case you are still monitoring this thead, I dug up a little something that I think you will enjoy.