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originally posted by: paraphi
originally posted by: cosmonova
Oh I see, another fan of history books.
Oh, yes. Those inconvenient history books! Sometime the truth hurts. However, understanding the past crimes of Russia in Ukraine may help understand why Ukrainians want to face Europe.
I guess the onus is on you to prove ethnic cleansing is underway as you are making the assertion. Pointing to pro-Russian blogs is hardly evidence, is it?
The latest news is that the Ukrainian President is calling for a ceasefire and has said Ukrainian forces will unilaterally do so.
www.independent.co.uk...
Let's hope this plan prevails and some of the pro Russian fighters can return home to Chechnya and Russia.
Regards
Marchenko Vladimir Romanovich, a member of the Ukrainian parliament, from eastern Ukraine issued the following statement:
“I demand an immediate end to the killing of my countrymen in the Donbass region instrumented under a punitive operation led by armed Ukrainian neo-Nazis.
I was born and raised in Slavyansk. In this city my mother and father are buried. My relatives live in Kramatorsk in Donetsk and Mariupol.
Donbass workers diligently worked for the good of the [Ukrainian] motherland. Unlike the Galician fascists, my [Ukrainian] fellow countrymen fought the Nazis [during World War II] instead of serving them.
Donbass workers as the entire South-East of Ukraine are at the forefront of recovery from chaos created by the junta for Ukraine [the Kiev coalition government].
We are not separatists. We are a proud working people who will not kneel before [Nazi] Bandera, we will not betray our Russian brothers.
We only want honest work, life with dignity without humiliation and insults, with the respect for our historical roots and our spiritual and cultural values.
We will never accept [Neo-Nazi] “Banderization” and Euro-colonization of Ukraine!
We will not be cannon fodder in the U.S. war against Russia!
In accordance with the will of the people of the whole country [Ukraine] expressed in the referendum in 1991, we want to be in union with Russia and Belarus. This is the essence of our demands.
But the [Kiev] junta is hunting us, it has proclaimed a policy of genocide
- “Pro-Russians on knives”, “Ukraine for Ukrainians”, “Glory to the nation - death of the enemy”.
Yes, we do not believe in Bandera’s Ukraine, Nazi henchmen and criminals.
Yes, that’s our stance.
It is our right to defend our legitimate interests, our lives and security from the declared genocide and oppression.
Today the junta has declared war against us with the unconstitutional use of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
I appeal to the soldiers and officers of Ukraine: Do not follow criminal orders.
Do not shoot my countrymen! Remember the Nuremberg Trials that convicted the leaders of Nazi Germany who gave the unlawful orders and those who carried them.
I appeal to the U.S. president: President Obama, stop your Banderites! Don’t disgrace the Nobel Peace Prize!”
For the murder of my countrymen, you will be held responsible! [emphasis added]
originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: cosmonova
At least try to keep this on topic rather than blindly posting selected snippets from history to help you justify the Nazguard taunt, having just told me to "get my head out of history books" when referring to Russian attempts at genocide in Ukraine.
But back to topic. Can you prove ethnic cleansing is underway, thus supporting the OP.
Regards
originally posted by: cosmonova
Would that be ethnic cleansing?
originally posted by: paraphi
originally posted by: cosmonova
Would that be ethnic cleansing?
No, it would not be!
Is this the Stepan Bandera who spent most of WW2 in a concentration camp and was killed by the KGB in 1959? I don't think the Russian's liked him!
Not sure what he had to do with the Soviet engineered famine in 1932/33 which killed upwards of 10 million Ukrainians, but hey, that's history.
Regards
In late 1942, Bandera's organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a campaign of ethnic cleansing of Volhynia, and in early 1944, these campaigns began to include Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that nearly 70,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia[39] by the OUN-Bandera which bears primary responsibility for the massacres.
On January 22, 2010, on the Day of Unity of Ukraine, the then-President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded to Bandera the title of Hero of Ukraine (posthumously) for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent Ukrainian state.
another interesting article
The views echoed among Russia's state-owned television networks have taken a firm grip on the country's population, according to the results of a poll published Monday.
The Levada Center, a Moscow-based independent research organization, revealed that 94 percent of the population relies on domestic television networks to follow developments in Ukraine and Crimea. The outcome of the poll, which was conducted in April, was based on the opinions of a representative sample of 1,602 adults across 45 regions.
Russia's television news landscape is comprised largely of state-owned networks that tend to support the Kremlin's account of the situation in Ukraine. The poll suggests that the views presented by state-run news broadcasts have shaped the Russian population's opinions on the situation.
The Levada Center found that 44 percent of respondents think foreign media outlets are "not very objective" about the situation in Ukraine, while 50 percent consider Russia's state media outlets to be "generally objective."
Need I remind you that the self proclaimed Governor of the Donetsk Republic, Pavel Gubarev was a member of the neo Nazi aligned Russian National Unity group. Seems to me like the fascists are all out and fighting!
originally posted by: paraphi
Oh, and it is a good tactic to blame everyone else of genocide, but the Russian's really went for the records in Ukraine. That is historical fact, even though the Russians are masters in trying to cover up the past. Many in Russia still think Stalin was a peaceful chap who would not hurt a fly, let alone untold millions, including Ukrainians. We know the truth.
Regards
originally posted by: buggy166
a reply to: cosmonova
Meh, political plays. Theres no nazis with that much money and no ethnic anything given ukrainians and russians history.
Bottom line russia #s on anyone they cant use, and if its someone on their border, they force tejir "friendship" like they did in eastern europe before.
Eastern ukraine all of a sudden has an army in the thousands and tanks, rockets and other heavy weapons from a bunch of random ukrainian army bases in the area?
Its obvious its a political struggle for power, and the civilians in the east are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If russians wanna join russia, sell your house and move to russia. Not a hard concept in the 20th centruy civilized world.
Me being born in a country and owning some land doesnt mean i get to make my own country or that my farm all of a sudden joins another country because i like germany more than poland for example.
Theres bull# on both sides and as usual the people who want nothing to do with war or politics are the ones getting hurt the most. Hopefully they flee into russia or other sides of the country until things settle.
originally posted by: cosmonova
originally posted by: buggy166
a reply to: cosmonova
Meh, political plays. Theres no nazis with that much money and no ethnic anything given ukrainians and russians history.
Bottom line russia #s on anyone they cant use, and if its someone on their border, they force tejir "friendship" like they did in eastern europe before.
Eastern ukraine all of a sudden has an army in the thousands and tanks, rockets and other heavy weapons from a bunch of random ukrainian army bases in the area?
Its obvious its a political struggle for power, and the civilians in the east are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If russians wanna join russia, sell your house and move to russia. Not a hard concept in the 20th centruy civilized world.
Me being born in a country and owning some land doesnt mean i get to make my own country or that my farm all of a sudden joins another country because i like germany more than poland for example.
Theres bull# on both sides and as usual the people who want nothing to do with war or politics are the ones getting hurt the most. Hopefully they flee into russia or other sides of the country until things settle.
Move to Russia? Why would they, they are on their land. Novorossiya to be precise.
The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights on Wednesday issued a new report on Ukraine that describes the breakdown of law and order in the areas held by armed groups in the east of the country – with increasing evidence of abductions, detentions, torture, and killings – as well as a number of “worrying trends” emerging in Crimea.
~ ~ ~
As well as fleeing random violence and deteriorating economic and social conditions, some displaced people interviewed cited “targeted attacks and intimidation of activists, and increasingly of ‘ordinary’ residents, known for their ‘Pro-Ukrainian’ stance.”
Move to Russia? Why would they, they are on their land. Novorossiya to be precise.
Seems to me that, if anyone, Strelkov is responsible for ethnic cleansing and Kiev are trying to stop him ....
In fact, the rebels have easily identified the junta's forces as fascist neo-Nazis and portray themselves as the Soviet resistance that eventually smashed the fascists before. They even found a stash of a lot of soviet armour, which made them feel even more like the Soviets fighting the west and its fascist puppets.