'Get out of EU,' ex-French PM Rocard tells Britain

a reply to: Shadow1024

Scotland and England both have very proud self identity and no matter what the referendum outcome this will remain the case but they also share a common island, most are related to people on the other side of the border which is not noticible as there are no signs except on the roads and no customs checks at all, we share common armed forces and have for hundreds of years, are bound together in the war graves where scot and englishman, welsh and often irishman lie side by side as brothers in arms whom died for there nation of Britain (and not just there part of it), we often argue but most english north of birmingham feel more related to the scot's than there own southern neighbors whom we tend to think of as a european overspill into our country, especially since london is now no longer a british city ethnically speaking with british being the minority there, though this does vary from person to person and city to city of course even in the north.
Europe has always been over there to us and america with it's shared language and more progressive culture was more of an influence than france or germany ever were in the past hundred years, so much so that many indiginous brit's feel closer ties to america and of course canada, australia and new zealand than we ever could for europe whom stole our fishing job's, overfished our fisheries often using illegal techniques (spanish and portugese more than the french) and have on the whole rubbed many of us up the wrong way to our annoyance with our weak lilly livered government for letting them walk all over us.

Here is a question, if the british government had been more decisive and stuck up more for our british rights would the scottich referendum have been so important now and indeed would it even have gained the following it has as I actually think scotland is going to vote yes to independance and partition and how many of us brit's would happily vote simply to have the capital moved north back into our hands.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Shadow1024

Scotland and England both have very proud self identity and no matter what the referendum outcome this will remain the case but they also share a common island, most are related to people on the other side of the border which is not noticible as there are no signs except on the roads and no customs checks at all, we share common armed forces and have for hundreds of years, are bound together in the war graves where scot and englishman, welsh and often irishman lie side by side as brothers in arms whom died for there nation of Britain (and not just there part of it), we often argue but most english north of birmingham feel more related to the scot's than there own southern neighbors whom we tend to think of as a european overspill into our country, especially since london is now no longer a british city ethnically speaking with british being the minority there, though this does vary from person to person and city to city of course even in the north.
Europe has always been over there to us and america with it's shared language and more progressive culture was more of an influence than france or germany ever were in the past hundred years, so much so that many indiginous brit's feel closer ties to america and of course canada, australia and new zealand than we ever could for europe whom stole our fishing job's, overfished our fisheries often using illegal techniques (spanish and portugese more than the french) and have on the whole rubbed many of us up the wrong way to our annoyance with our weak lilly livered government for letting them walk all over us.

Here is a question, if the british government had been more decisive and stuck up more for our british rights would the scottich referendum have been so important now and indeed would it even have gained the following it has as I actually think scotland is going to vote yes to independance and partition and how many of us brit's would happily vote simply to have the capital moved north back into our hands.

Ties with USA/Canada/Australia - gotcha

Don't speak too much about legality of some fishing, because if Icelandic person appears here, it might end with a flame war (you know, Cod Wars).

I think that Scots were already checking, whether they would have re-apply to the EU. (the answer was that yes, no automatic membership as successor state)

Wouldn't it actually motivate Scots to show that increasing your level of independence is an easy process and they should also try it?

But anyway you would stay in European Economic Area like Norway? (or leave also that?)

a reply to: Shadow1024


Just to add to LABTECH767's post the EU members are all attached to one

land mass, but we are a 'stand alone' island. We have more in common with

America, Australia Canada and New Zealand, Due to Christopher Colombus,

and the Pilgrim Fathers. The English, Scots, Welsh, and Irish (the British)

were the original immigrants/settlers in those countries.


The EU has 28 member states .... There is a disparity in the size, wealth and

political systems of member states. Majority voting takes place where larger

countries have more votes than smaller ones - Smaller ones have disproportional

representation compared to their population. So in point Germany and France

make all the decisions, and it appears that after the recent elections France

is becoming somewhat dis-enchanted too.

I think they feel if they break up Britain, the smaller member states will have less say in the EU and there goes the British counterbalance to France-Germany

Hence the Scottish independence referendum

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: dollukka

The thing is, in 1975 the British voted in a referendum for continued membership of what was then called The European Economic Community, EEC.
It was a vote to be a part of a free trade association, not political union. ...

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: Freeborn
...

Free Trading is supposed to be the reason behind the EU.... however the whole
world has traded since the beginning of time and with separate currencies too. ...

originally posted by: redeyeblue
... The EU was set up as a common market for better trade between countries, that has not worked out too well and now greater integration is needed to make the system work. ....

Repeating a lie doesnt make it true. You are fooling yourselves.

1. The EU and all its predecessing institutions, all the way back to Paris and the Schuman declaration, have ALWAYS stressed that the unification, integration and harmonization of its members to be a main goal and motivation.

Denying this and attempting to portray yourselves as being "fooled" into something you didnt know was coming is... retconning.

2. The EEC Britain joined was not a free trade association, it was a COMMON MARKET. Huge difference. Put very simplistic, an FTA aims at improving the flow of goods and services through reduced obstacles in the form of regulations, taxes and tariffs. A common market goes far beyond that by setting up common policies and frameworks. This can obviously ONLY work when the member states give up regional sovereignity. Technically, we dont export and import to each other in the traditional sense within the EU anymore, just like Florida and Kansas dont ex/import to each other.

The british populace did NOT buy the "cat in the bag" as we say here. Everything that was to come was plain to see.

3. Even FTAs (much less common markets) are impossible without a degree of political integration. You cannot simply cut the political element from economy and harmonize just that bit. If it were that easy, it wouldnt be such a huge process and we´d see much more FTAs across the globe.

The reality is, economic and foreign trade policy is just as essential a political tool to nation states as defense or social services. Claiming anything to the contrary is naive at best.

The uk never wanted to be in the EU.

we kept our own money (the pound sterling), we pay huge sums to the EU collective we just dont need them at all. of course we will go to war but we want to avoid being dragged down like countrys like greece who are financially screwed.

its costing us a fortune to keep these guys alive.

yes we will go to war for them, but should we just be handing billions of our tax payers money out randomly, hell no