This is what insane looks like

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

Also you need to help them express their feelings because teenagers are facing huge hormonal turmoils inside and they aren't always ready to face it. The best success we had with turbulent kids was ALWAYS when we got to the heart of the matter of why they were turbulent in the first place (usually some deep wound they have for long time, thus they feel they need to play though to hide it).

The adolescent world really is a troubling time. I would never want to go back unless I knew what I know now. They don't live in the true reality and have their own sense of "rules" that pertain only to the youth world. I'm not against talking things out with kids, in fact, I encourage it. However, what do you do when a kid isn't willing? I'm not suggesting let the smacking begin, but a different alternative. As I said, kids aren't in the right reality of how things work and I understand Jim Morrison's lyrics "all the children are insane". He's correct. Children are insane. All of them. What they need is a "reminder" that the adult world will not tolerate bad behavior. 0 tolerance.

This is what I propose. When all else fails as a parent, the courts institute a 'corporal punishment clause'. This absolves the parents the responsibility of choosing to spank their child on their own. They are legally obligated by law and if they can't do it, then the courts will. Pass this law and watch the shootings, crime, self-entitlement, bullying, and what not become a thing of the past. This stuff didn't begin to get out of hand since the 1990's. What changed? Banning the spank.

originally posted by: FlySolo
This is what I propose. When all else fails as a parent, the courts institute a 'corporal punishment clause'.

FYI, spanking isn't banned where I live so it's not even a concern for me.

What I have trouble with is when parents think they really have tried "anything else" when they never really tried to understand what was going in the kids head in the first place.

Maybe every parents should start with that when they have issues with their kids. It doesn't really work differently than a couple in that communication is the heart of the matter and that beating up your wife never solved anything.

IMHO

originally posted by: FlySolo
Children are insane. All of them.

My turn now. What is your experience with kids besides your own youth as a beaten child and a kid you did not raise? No disrespect but you seem to have quite strong opinion for someone who never really worked with kids...

a reply to: LDragonFire
I read it on a blog today and I really think it is true...some of these drugs used for treating anti-depression say right on the label: May cause or increase thoughts of suicide. It's a short hop from suicide to homicide and so why isn't it possible these drugs increase or cause thoughts of homicide as well? Suicide and homicide are the same exact thing but with different people.

Most of the random shooters are young and affluent and were or had been treated with anti-depressants.

When poor kids act crazy they go to jail.
When rich kids act crazy they go to the doctors.

I'm guessing this is why the mass shooters are NOT poor.
The poor are not as likely to have been "treated" for anti-depression.

Just a thought.....

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

I can understand your point to a degree. But I'm a hard-line type of guy. Intense. I'm not going to discuss every reason to my kid for what I expect of him. I'm not going to counsel him because he's a slob and I expect him to wash his own dishes. I don't care about his reasons for being a slob, a bum, a meth head. Or his reasons for punching a bus driver in the face, bear macing some kid at a bonfire, calling his teacher at home and yelling at them for not allowing him to listen to music in class, or the time he beat someone with his skateboard.

While your approach is to talk it out, I'll set the stopwatch and time your methods for "correction" and see how long a kid like mine will make you pull your hair out. Wasted effort IMHO.

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

My turn now. What is your experience with kids besides your own youth as a beaten child and a kid you did not raise? No disrespect but you seem to have quite strong opinion for someone who never really worked with kids...

Sure not a problem. I'm pragmatic. I've been around long enough to see how things work in the world. I do have a very strong opinion about kids and how to raise them. I'm not a teacher, councilor, nor someone who's worked with special needs kids. But that doesn't matter actually and I don't necessarily believe anyone in those professions have all the answers anyway. But I do come from a family with 6 step siblings and me as an only child. I've seen decades of "family" matters and I've seen the results of various parenting methods, one ending in a heart attack of an otherwise healthy uncle. For me, the writing is on the wall and I call a spade a spade.

a reply to: LDragonFire


I have to take issue with those who claim our biggest problem is modern children not getting spanked enough.
Outside of prescription drug use and the ease of obtaining firearms, the problem is in outside influences. What do they see every day? What are their models? That is what a child will emulate. When I was a kid they took outside influence seriously. We didn't have the ads, internet and violent games they have today. Heck, the bad guy was not even allowed to win on TV. At some point movie makers claimed that was not realistic, and we have been going down hill ever since, trying to "stay real."

Getting back to spanking as a means to stop mass killings and insanity - It won't work.

No one, who was not themselves spanked as a child, supports spanking as a means of education, or training. Only those who were spanked themselves see any benefit to it. Coincidentally and horrifically, the same situation surrounds female genital mutilation. You might not expect perpetrators of this barbaric crime against women to be the victims themselves. It was done to them and they survived, they feel it should now also be done to other female children. It is the same with our time honored, but misguided tradition of spanking. This is how ignorance is perpetuated and violence is spread.

a reply to: FlySolo

So you basically never dealt with kids education in real life, and all you know about raising them is your own story where you were beaten into obedience.

OK. You are entitled to your opinion but allow me to take what you said with a grain of salt.

I dealt with kids who tried to stab each others at 11 among other things. I think I know how to manage them and set limits without using the belt, and I wonder if you are not projecting your own story to the world.

Anyway thanks for the honest answer.

The scumbag who did the killings is a disgrace to the human race.

Going out and attacking and killing random people on some kind of so called revenge trip is completely insane.

It is just random pointless mindless violence.

a reply to: JimTSpock

Some might say we are a violent society and children are surrounded by violent images. There is even an idea among children of a certain age that death is not necessarily permanent. It is bizarre and troublesome. The value of human life is no where to be found. I wonder how we expect kids to get it?

Not trying to make excuses for the killer but saying he is a disgrace to the human race suggest he is far and away from the norm. That's just not reading the papers. Sadly, he isn't. The human race proves an ability to lower itself at every opportunity. Actions of some depraved human beings lately, can make almost any animal look compassionate and even humane by comparison. I am not saying there are not great people out there, just saying we don't see them too often while we have no shortage of the worst of them.

a reply to: LDragonFire

One more Libtard who takes his gun out and shoots a bunch of innocent people. I'm starting to believe in gun control for liberals.

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

I will also be devil's advocate to myself. I have never spanked anyone so I have no experience in actually having to do the deed. I'm sure its a lot easier said than done. As for the 11 y/0, well yeah that's some other serious issue going on which I don't think spanking would solve anyway. And spanking has an age limit. before 5 is too soon and 12-13 is too late. You really only have a seven year window.

As for the projecting. I will answer two questions with this. Some, as the poster before me, feels spanking is an inherited trait and only the spanked will spank. But what they're not recognizing is, abuse is the inherited commonality. There's a fine line between getting spanked and getting a punch in the mouth. A punch in the mouth is out of anger. Spanking is clearly because rules were broken. At this point, it's the parent's responsibility to define the two and leave it at that. But an abuser is going to be an abuser, regardless of spanking laws in your state.

So in short. Yes/No to your question. I project a strong hand in raising a child, not the abuse I received.

eta: "strong hand" meant metaphorically

originally posted by: Stuship
a reply to: LDragonFire

One more Libtard who takes his gun out and shoots a bunch of innocent people. I'm starting to believe in gun control for liberals.

So these deaths are not enough for you? It is going to take one more? Just like a McPublican. How many more do they have to kill before it's enough? Pittbulls kill 65 people a year and people are organizing campaigns, they want to ban Pittbulls. Guns kill 10,000 and more. And all Libtards ask is that sellers run background checks before handing guns to mental patients. How about a modicum of perspective? Libtards aren't making fortunes in the prescription drug and "for profit" healthcare business's. I think anti-depressants are at the core of this killing and many others of late but you want to blame a political party. That's productive. Thinking "Conservative" is a real oxymoron because seriously, what are you conserving? It sure isn't life.

a reply to: Loveaduck
Wow, do you honestly believe that the drug business is a partisan right wing entity?

And it's cute that all the liberals want is backround checks, which are already done.... Why is there a push for more then, you if already won on that front? If you wish to live under the illusion of safety due to nonsense gun laws, by all means move to NYC. It already exists there, no need to put the whole country under feel good laws that don't work in areas it is already heavily implemented.

There is no such thing as safety. Not even putting TSA style checkpoints all over the place is going to make anyone safe. I swear, some people won't ever be happy, maybe they should just lock us all up in bag safe bulletproof balls by the time we could walk lol.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Loveaduck
Wow, do you honestly believe that the drug business is a partisan right wing entity?

I don't think they are partisan but they will favor any party that gives them less hassle to release and promote their own "products" and market them, instead of looking at the issue from a societal point of view (pros VS cons of a treatment, cheapest solutions for public health, is the issue real or "invented" to create a new market, like ADHD, ...)

So yes, they tend to favor right wing or liberal parties.

I say this based on experience, having worked for a big pharma company.

My comment is going to be more in line with todays youth in general than this guy BUT,

Facebook allows people a lot of insight to what others are getting up to, like right now
one of my friends is getting married in Australia with around 70 members of family (something I could never afford to do)
I think... Good on him.

Another friend bought a new top of the range Audi's, again I can't afford it but he has done well in life, good on him.

Another guy I barely know, 5ft tall, ginger hair and gets the hottest women in the bar every time, not Jealous but plenty do get jealous.

Point being with all this rambling, had facebook not existed I would not know these facts so I would not even think about it, the things they are doing may have been on some wishlist of mine but still I wouldn't know.
Facebook allows others to get jealous, especially if you add anyone and everyone, law of averages say someone will be doing something awesome every day, something you wish you could be doing.

I think that breeds jealousy, it doesn't create it but it certainly amplifies it in a way not seen prior to the internet.
TV and movies may have made you want things but now its in your face constantly.

(not just facebook, any social media, hell this website can create jealousy, I've seen it first hand)

Edit, I made up the Facebook points to prove a point, No jealousy here, I'm good.

The guy was actually from a rich family. If anything HE would be the one people get jealous of.

If all wanted was sex he could go see an escort.

What he wanted and was jealous of was affection. And hopefully it's not something money can buy.

He was just a broken person who never saw women as human beings with feelings, so he could never get that affection and it drove him to madness.

If only he realized that he couldn't get that affection unless he himself was capable of giving it, maybe this could have been avoided.

a reply to: TKDRL

Yeah I do just like privatizing prisons and even privatizing schools...Forget ethics, moral responsibility or even what is right for America, or the planet. They see a chance to make some money and they leap like vultures on meat.
Republican party has sort of come to represent Capitalism gone berserk. Capitalism without a conscience.

I do think the "for profit" drug business is an arm of big pharma and the "for profit" healthcare industry. That Health care Act war should be your first clue. Only Democrats wanted it affordable. GOP and insurance industry cronys were all set up to make money on sick people, bankrupt families and roll in the dough.

Hence the tooth and nail battle. You thought it was about death panels didn't you? They are good.

I have schizophrenia and I know crazy. The guy wasn't crazy he's a narcissistic psychopath with a god complex. He had everything in life handed to him but he couldn't figure out how to get a girlfriend. They guy was socially stunted because his parents pampered the hell out of him. He decided to take his aggression out on innocent people because he thought they were the cause of his problem.

a reply to: Loveaduck
Well, I guess trying to have a discussion with you, would be just about as much fun as having a discussion with an evangelist. Have fun in your partisanship I guess.