To Baptise Or Not To Baptise

Hi.
I understand your dilemma. My husband and I were both raised catholic: baptized, all of the sacraments, and in our adult lives, came to understand that it was more of a roadblock than a path. We chose not to baptize either of our children.
A little background..My father was in the seminary before he decided that wasn't his calling and he finished college, joined the army and met my mother. They had 7 children. She converted, only to be "allowed" to marry him. This caused a family rift between the two sides.
Out of the seven of us, one attends church regularly, and not a Catholic church. For myself, I think that dogma has done much more harm than good in my life. How is it just to instill so much guilt in children? The sacrament of confession is prepped for the little ones at the tender age of 7-8. What sins could they possibly have? I remember crying in the confessional for the sin of "feeling angry".
I could go on about pressures as the different sacraments approached at each age level, but it is just my story.
In the end, I saw the hipocrisy at a young age and started to study the other religions out there. I learned about all of them, and in the end, I think they are all forgetting that God lives within us and in everything. There is nothing for a small child to feel guilty about. They should feel the love and wonder of being alive.
We are all infused with the power of God. Only people who want power would try to guilt or shame another. I think in God's eyes, we are perfectly perfect and perfectly loved. We are here to learn and grow and when our time is done, no matter how we stumble on the path, we go home to that embrace.


So, if my kids get interested in church, I will take them. In the mean time, I will teach them about love.
Good luck, friend!

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Actually if you look up the stats, and I just did last week in a debate with a catholic ATSer. The evangelicals literalists we see so much of in the American Bible Belt are only about 25% of the worlds Christians. There the only ones who denigh evolution. There the only ones who try and shove the bible into science.

I'm in mississippi and lived in Kansas City. So I assumed most Christians were prodestant evangelicals. That's who I run into. But it's just because of where I'm at I'm the country.

a reply to: ArtemisE

You could make the argument that the other side is to blame for the social isolation of the child by ostracizing him/her for being different.

a reply to: seabhac-rua

Follow your own heart (and your GF's heart). My mother was Baptist and Baptists don't baptisize children they believe that each of us needs to make our own decision as an adult. Other Protestant sects feel the same way.

That said in a close knit society, it can be trickly. Perhaps a blessing of the child would sufice? I've seen that calm ruffled adults feathers on more then one occassion.

In the end religion or not is a personal decision - it hasn't always been externally and where it counts, inside, it always has been.

Best Wishes and Joy of your child.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I agree there to blame 100%! But that's the reality of the situation.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Snarl

How exactly does a baptism provide future peace of mind? I live in the US, and my children are 16 and 12. Neither has been baptized.

I'm not sure that it does ... but it can't hurt though, can it? Unless, after the child has committed a mortal sin and turns to his father and asks, "Why didn't you protect me from this?" Does Baptism work? Who knows?

For reference, they have never been sent on a vision quest, offered up to a dragon, or forced to endure some obscure right of passage either.

You see, I have. I was agnostic. Then I was shown the veil. Then I was shown how to cross beyond. I have been in the presence of the Creator. He is real. How can I say more than that? If you saw a UFO ... would you call yourself a 'believer' ... or would you 'know?'

I am not here to proselytize. I don't know how. I only know what I know. It's not my place to convince anyone ... nor is it my intent. There's always the 'do over.'

FWIW, I just realized I never had either of my kids Baptized. What does that tell you? Some of the old ways may best be not forgotten. I think the 'reasons' behind a good many have. There's a gap. It's very apparent to me. I can see where 'people' have tried to mend it. I think they had neither the proper tools nor materials to accomplish the task.

-Cheers

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: tsingtao
i have no idea after 60yrs of being on this planet.

I think you should do some objective research on how Catholic beliefs and traditions compare to the Bible.

Just saying...

One of the reasons I steadily changed my beliefs (in my case Christianity) is because of all the contradictions etc. within the dogma, and what the actual scriptures say.

If the man and his wife have qualms with baptizing their child it's understandable. They shouldn't feel obligated to do so just because of hundreds of years of tradition, especially from an institution like the Catholic church. Luckily for them they don't have to take the threat of being burned at the stake into consideration.

yeah well, that's your take on it.
good luck to you.

and where does it say you will be burnt?

don't baptize!! wtf? who cares?!!
YOU IDIOTS SCREAM LIKE IT'S MANDATORY!

lol, wtf?

a reply to: ArtemisE

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Actually if you look up the stats, and I just did last week in a debate with a catholic ATSer. The evangelicals literalists we see so much of in the American Bible Belt are only about 25% of the worlds Christians.

I'm assuming those 25% reject that the other 75% are true bible believing born again Christians lol. Herein lies the dilemma for me. There are so many denominations who knows what to believe. Awhile back I came across a guy named Dr. Scott Johnson. He believes in no particular denomination, and only the scripture. This is the best way to approach the scriptures in a spiritual way imo. He has some very interesting things to say about all of the others as well. There does seem to be some peculiar conspiracies going on within the churches, Catholic and Christian alike. Definitely zealous if nothing else.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You mean as a prodestant not as a Christian. Catholics are Christians too.

I mean as a Christian. Protestant or not baptism should be by choice. The bible never tells us to baptize our babied. And if you consider us to be Christians alike, why make the distinction?

Op good for you letting your child make his own choice.
I am disgusted at some comments here that are just veiled threats to your childs soul.
Brainwashing kids to make your family happy is just abuse. Letting your child decide is the best thing to do, some here know if your child decides himself the odds are he will reject religion..

a reply to: seabhac-rua

With all due respect, I was reading through all your comments and you sure do have a strong resentment towards churches/religion in general, which is your right

So is that the real reason for you not wanting to baptize your child?
Kinda like defying what's expected of you

Sounds like you are using your 'child having his right to decide' as a way out -- an excuse

As parents, it's up to us to make decisions until the child is no longer a minor,and help guide them, teach them until then

That is one thing wrong with many young kids now a days --they have become the parents & the parents are now the 'kids' asking them what they want to do/ what they want to eat
Parents lose control once they hand the reins over to them at a young age and then try to take them back when they are teenagers....doesn't work out all that great later on down the road

And I have never, ever heard of kids being bullied over baptism......sorry, that just sounds like another excuse
But I don't know what it's like where you live, so it may be different


Hope you find your answer
Just don't let your own cynicism get in the way of what might could be for your baby

Good luck

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Those 25% reject everyone just about lol. Gays, atheist, scientists, all the other Christians, Mormons, Muslims everyone except the Jews.... And that's a new thing. For the past 1000 years they've hated them.

a reply to: seabhac-rua

Wow, for once we can agree on something.

More and more people are realizing spirituality has nothing to do with one's religion and everything to do with one's consciousness; awareness of one's thoughts, emotions and actions.

Like most Christian practices and celebrations, I'm sure baptism has its roots in paganism, and even if it doesn't, it is just one more useless practice that only serves to perpetuate and justify the existence of a useless institution.

To think one could determine the destiny of one's soul by touching one's head with water is close to ludicrous............

You are bang on about your GF's mother as well, many so called "Christians" are filled with fear and judgement............definitely NOT what the teachings of Jesus were about.............they might as well be practicing witchcraft.......not that there is anything wrong with witchcraft.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: seabhac-rua

Sometimes I feel that I should recant my decision not to baptise our son

Good. Better to err on the side of caution.

You said yourself you 'know' there is more to this life than meets the eye. At 10 months, your son will not understand ... nor will he have any memory of the event. So what's the harm? Do it for his future peace of mind. Don't be dumb.

I find it ridiculous that in this day and age some human beings still think they ought to "err on the side of caution" and perform rituals in order to get to some 'heaven' and not be banished to an eternal hell.

Just because someone feels they 'know' there is more to life doesn't mean they should rush out and baptize their children and calling those who don't "dumb" only betrays that of yourself.

I enjoyed the OP and agree wholeheartedly that too often, people use their religions against others and ought not to.

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: seabhac-rua

With all due respect, I was reading through all your comments and you sure do have a strong resentment towards churches/religion in general...

Why wouldn't someone harbor a resentment to stupidity and corruption?

a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

You are bang on about your GF's mother as well, many so called "Christians" are filled with fear and judgement............definitely NOT what the teachings of Jesus were about.............they might as well be practicing witchcraft.......not that there is anything wrong with witchcraft.

That's how they control the masses -- through 'fear & judgement'

Not all churches are bad but their overall theme is control, manipulation--play the guilt trip so to speak

Not sure if you're into movies, but Stigmata is actually pretty good
The critics nor the super-duper religious crowd liked it very much

Basically, it's a supernatural themed movie with a decent script that delves into the secrets of the Vatican and the power they wield and to what extent they would go to to keep certain things secret

And the overall message I got from watching it, is :

'God is everywhere--
split a piece of wood and I am there,
lift up a stone and you will find Me'

In other words, if God is everywhere, than what is the purpose of churches? [money/power -obviously]
One doesn't need to be in a man-made structure to worship God

And at the very end of the movie, it claims that actual scriptures of Jesus were discovered in the 40's or 50's, I think, only to be locked away in the vault at the Vatican

originally posted by: gusdynamite

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: seabhac-rua

With all due respect, I was reading through all your comments and you sure do have a strong resentment towards churches/religion in general...

Why wouldn't someone harbor a resentment to stupidity and corruption?

Not all churches are 'stupid and corrupt'
Some -yes- but not all

originally posted by: snarky412

originally posted by: gusdynamite

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: seabhac-rua

With all due respect, I was reading through all your comments and you sure do have a strong resentment towards churches/religion in general...

Why wouldn't someone harbor a resentment to stupidity and corruption?

Not all churches are 'stupid and corrupt'
Some -yes- but not all

You're right. I should really edit my post to delete the word corrupt. Perhaps stupid is also a strong word but hmm, gee these people don't really even try to be anything good. All they do is tithe and preach crap and ok you know what? I'm back to them being stupid and corrupt.

originally posted by: gusdynamite

originally posted by: snarky412

originally posted by: gusdynamite

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: seabhac-rua

With all due respect, I was reading through all your comments and you sure do have a strong resentment towards churches/religion in general...

Why wouldn't someone harbor a resentment to stupidity and corruption?

Not all churches are 'stupid and corrupt'
Some -yes- but not all

You're right. I should really edit my post to delete the word corrupt. Perhaps stupid is also a strong word but hmm, gee these people don't really even try to be anything good. All they do is tithe and preach crap and ok you know what? I'm back to them being stupid and corrupt.

I get what you are saying

I believe hundreds of years ago, churches [Men] had good intentions for the most part
Over time, things [people] have changed as well as the Men that are over the churches

Now a days, many have gotten more commercialized--a business--and it's more of a 'living' than worshiping to some

a reply to: snarky412

It's just one of 'those' days, for me and I'm finding little patience with these things and remember phrase about good intentions!

I also firmly believe that there are christians and other religious people who are good and have 'good' faith. I just think that we've done so much damage to ourselves with our religions that things can't continue as they are - something has got to give eventually.