UK: Sale of unmarked Halal meat raises concerns....

So, it seems the Sun has run a report into the sale of Halal meat in the UK and it seems to have caused a bit of a stir. Unfortunately, the Sun's website is behind a paywall, but I have linked to the Huffington Post article with a picture of their front page story.

The long and short of their complaint is that Halal meat is being sold in the UK without consumers being told - the main thrust of their argument is not agreeing with the slaughter practices required of Halal, mainly that the animal be killed via a slit throat and doesn't require the animal to be stunned before this happens, something which the RSPCA claims causes "suffering".

For it's part, the Halal Food Authority (HFA) says that an animal can be stunned, as long as it isn't killed prior to being bled. Whether this happens or not though is what is causing the fuss - UK Food Standards Agency figures suggest 84% of cattle, 81% of sheep and 88% of chickens slaughtered for halal meat were stunned before they died.

Apparently, 15% of meat sold in the UK is Halal, however there is no requirement it be labelled as such. The PM has refused to get involved, saying it is down to retailers and suppliers, clearly not wanting to get involved in what could be an inflammatory debate.

Thoughts?

Slit throat!!! Bleed to death!!!
Isn't it time such barbaric practices were banned from a civilised country?

a reply to: VoidHawk

Apparently, Denmark has banned all religious slaughter of meat and according to EU law, all meat must be stunned but it does allow exceptions for religious killing.

Personally, I am not overly bothered as long as my animal is dead when I eat it but I can understand others being concerned over the manner of slaughter.

I do also suspect the Suns campaign is not motivated by animal welfare concerns, but it is the only angle they can play without being accused of racism or bigotry.

It is worth noting that Sikh groups have called for labelling of meat as well - presumably not wanting to eat meat that has been blessed in favour of another religion.

Why does it matter if Halal meat is not labelled as such, as long as it complies with UK standards.

I can understand it being an issue if non Halal meat is labelled as Halal, that would be contrary to established laws, but there is no requirement to label Halal meat as Halal,

Will muslims countries accept our way of slaughter?
Nope.
Then why are we accomodating their ways?

Could they not at least put the animals in guillotines? At least it's clean off and completely disconnected. (must it be a sword? )

But I am no expert, so I do not know what method is less bad.

originally posted by: stumason
So, it seems the Sun has run a report into the sale of Halal meat in the UK and it seems to have caused a bit of a stir. Unfortunately, the Sun's website is behind a paywall, but I have linked to the Huffington Post article with a picture of their front page story.

The long and short of their complaint is that Halal meat is being sold in the UK without consumers being told - the main thrust of their argument is not agreeing with the slaughter practices required of Halal, mainly that the animal be killed via a slit throat and doesn't require the animal to be stunned before this happens, something which the RSPCA claims causes "suffering".

For it's part, the Halal Food Authority (HFA) says that an animal can be stunned, as long as it isn't killed prior to being bled. Whether this happens or not though is what is causing the fuss - UK Food Standards Agency figures suggest 84% of cattle, 81% of sheep and 88% of chickens slaughtered for halal meat were stunned before they died.

Apparently, 15% of meat sold in the UK is Halal, however there is no requirement it be labelled as such. The PM has refused to get involved, saying it is down to retailers and suppliers, clearly not wanting to get involved in what could be an inflammatory debate.

Thoughts?

Seems like a not of nonsense. Halal slaughtering practices, not surprisingly, are very similar to Kosher and both prescribe a quick slice of the throat with the sharpest blade possible to cause the quickest death with the least amount of suffering. In fact if IIRC, Halal even has rules against sharpening the blade in front of the animal so that it's not caused stress.

A lot of modern stunning is done with either an electrical current or a captive bolt gun which if done improperly could surely result in immense suffering. Kosher and Halal slaughter when done by an expert results in the animal losing consciousness in a few seconds.

What should be more of a concern to people who want to minimize the suffering of cattle is how they are treated prior to slaughter and how they're restrained during slaughter (hoisted off the ground by a single leg for instance — it happens).

originally posted by: BMorris
Why does it matter if Halal meat is not labelled as such, as long as it complies with UK standards.

Well, that is apparently the issue. Religiously slaughtered animals do not have to comply with EU/UK standards - although it has to be said some 80% do apparently stun their animals before death.

As I said above, I suspect the root of the issue is nothing to do with animal welfare, but rather people being uneasy at eating "religious" food.

originally posted by: BMorris
I can understand it being an issue if non Halal meat is labelled as Halal, that would be contrary to established laws, but there is no requirement to label Halal meat as Halal,

Indeed, but I think some sections of society would like to have the choice for whatever reason. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Slit throat!!! Bleed to death!!!
Isn't it time such barbaric practices were banned from a civilised country?

Believe it or not, when done correctly, it is more humane to kill chickens that way (when done correctly!) than chopping off it's head, leaving it to writhe or run around around in pain and panic. I cannot speak for other animals but have seen many simply awful videos of how animals get treated at normal "processing plants".

Oh, did I mention horsemeat being used as an illega substitute? I can't imagine any Muslims or Jews trying that kind of practice....

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

I agree - slitting any animals throat will result in a quick loss of conciousness.

That is why I think this "fuss" is not based on animal welfare, but rather another facet of the "Islam is taking over" argument.

a reply to: stumason

I personally have a problem as a UK citizen with this.

Firstly if the stats you gave in the OP are correct, that still leaves up to 20% of halal or kosher slaughtered animals not being stunned which means these poor animals have their throats slit and then are hung up to die a horrific death. (Vids available on the net). Whilst I am a meat eater, I still expect any animal I eat to have the best welfare conditions including its final demise to be as painless as possible.

Secondly, why should the whole food chain in the UK be tailored to some religious groups. There are halal and kosher butchers in the UK and is more than adequate to cater to the dietary requirements for these believe systems.

Personally I agree with Denmark that the rights of the animal supersedes religious beliefs.

This is the kind if nonsense that causes racism, islamphobia and Xenophobia when the majority of British people have to change their ways to accommodate others belief systems. And for those who are not in the UK, look up what is happening to our education system in Birmingham and Bradford. Also look up that in some cities in the UK Christmas Decorations are no longer placed in town centres as it would upset ethnic minorities. Is now very common to say "Happy Holidays" instead of Happy Christmas.

As Yasta Arafat (ex Palestine Leader) said before his death "The West may have their nuclear weapons but the Muslims have their woman".

a reply to: stumason

That is not correct. There are videos of sheep having their throats slit and then hung up fighting for their life for nearly five minutes. Not a quick death at all.

a reply to: VoidHawk

Who are we to tell anybody how to butcher there meat, is it really that bad how they do it. Don't get me wrong
I don't agree with torturing the animal before its killed. Maybe im naive, but whats so wrong with halal meat? It looks to me to just be a method of butchering. Of course I could be way wrong, which is fine and I don't mind being corrected.

Peace.

a reply to: flammadraco

Secondly, why should the whole food chain in the UK be tailored to some religious groups. There are halal and kosher butchers in the UK and is more than adequate to cater to the dietary requirements for these believe systems.

That's the key!

Special treatment of one religion over another does nothing more than create PROBLEMS!!!

The governments job is nothing more than to prevent people from being persecuted for their religious beliefs NOT pick favorites!

But we know the game! Pander for votes and throw common sense out the window! PLUS, isn't this a great opportunity for those whom are Muslim to train to be a butcher and have a career?

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: stumason

That is not correct. There are videos of sheep having their throats slit and then hung up fighting for their life for nearly five minutes. Not a quick death at all.

Then it wasn't done properly. There is no way you could slice an animals jugular and it still be kicking 5 minutes later.

Slicing the jugular of any animal will result in a sudden and massive drop in blood pressure, leading to unconsciousness very rapidly, especially as it drains blood directly from the brain.

flammadraco is correct,

Halal and Kosher cattle processing is being cracked down on because of how inhumane it is. It isn't just a case of cutting the animals throat and presto you have steaks. The animal needs to be dressed. That means skinned, eviscerated (all organs removed), and butchered. Animals who's hides aren't destined for the leather industry are flash boiled or briefly cooked to remove both hair and hide easily.

You would think that such a dramatic loss of blood pressure so quickly with their throat being slit would mean instant unconsciousness. Due to adrenaline and other factors, some animals are fully aware and struggling all the way through the skinning process.

WARNING, GRAPHIC:

www.youtube.com...

This is after the animal has had it's throat slit by a sanctioned Rabbi.

originally posted by: Toadmund
Then why are we accomodating their ways?

You'd be shocked how many times Muslims are served pork without being told. LOL

a reply to: Lichter daraus


Here's a video on how barbaric halal slaughter is WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

youtu.be...

At the Muslim festival of Blood Letting, animals see other animals slaughtered in front of them before it's their turn. Very humane.

Firstly, bare in mind I am playing devils advocate.....

originally posted by: flammadraco
I personally have a problem as a UK citizen with this.

Firstly if the stats you gave in the OP are correct, that still leaves up to 20% of halal or kosher slaughtered animals not being stunned which means these poor animals have their throats slit and then are hung up to die a horrific death. (Vids available on the net). Whilst I am a meat eater, I still expect any animal I eat to have the best welfare conditions including its final demise to be as painless as possible.

A slit throat is actually relatively painless - much like slitting your wrists. Use a sharp enough blade and would barely notice it. Also, why is this method "horrific" compared to any other? Quite often, an animal when stunned will either still be concious or awake shortly after before being bled.

Also, one can find videos of regularly slaughtered animals also kicking, writhing and generally not enjoying the experience.

originally posted by: flammadraco
Secondly, why should the whole food chain in the UK be tailored to some religious groups.

The "whole food chain" isn't tailored at all.

originally posted by: flammadraco
There are halal and kosher butchers in the UK and is more than adequate to cater to the dietary requirements for these believe systems.

Apparently, the Islamic population in the UK has a £20Bn spending power and numbers some 3 million, so there is a demand.

Also, butchers are not allowed to slaughter animals - even farmers are prohibited. All slaughter must take place in a licensed abattoir.

originally posted by: flammadraco
Personally I agree with Denmark that the rights of the animal supersedes religious beliefs.

I would be inclined to agree. The slaughter of animals should be based on scientific evidence to cause the least amount of suffering. However, it remains to be seen whether Halal or Kosher slaughter is any more "horrible" than what we do already.

Here is an RSPCA report into the religious slaughterof animals.

Apparently, according to their research, sheep can take 5-7 seconds to lose conciousness and cattle anywhere between 22 and 40 seconds.

So, no where near the "5 minutes" mark.

However, it does later go on to say that this is still unacceptable and animals should be stunned.

EDIT: To add, if this is true I would be inclined to agree that religious slaughter shouldn't be allowed, or at least, it should be made to require the animal is stunned first.

a reply to: stumason

3 million Muslims compared to 33 million Christians according to the last census in the UK and yet 15% of our food supply is unlabelled Halal meat.

There are already 18 halal and kosher abattoirs in the UK which I think is more than adequate for a population of 3 million.

In any case it should be labelled as Halal or Kosher just in the same way that food products should be clearly labelled if it has pork products or any other derivative that is not acceptable to the dietary requirements of these groups.

It's not about not allowing halal or kosher meat to be sold, this is about a British Citizen having the right to know what they are eating and how the welfare of the animal was taken into consideration.

Stating its a humane slaughter etc is an opinion that I and many other people do not share. I actually think this is as bad as the horse meat scandal and seems very very concerning that this was allowed to happen without the Food Standard Agency or Trading standards having the British publics interest considered and I for one will be kicking up a stink with both if the aforementioned government agencies tomorrow. That's how angry I am about this as I am sure many British people are.