If people acted like this guy..gun owners wouldn't an issue.

a reply to: MrSpad

Well stated Mr. Spad and I agree. There are a lot of responsible gun owners out there. Different places in the US have different effects upon what use one may have for a weapon. I ranch and I carry everyday on my ranch for a number of reasons. Carrying is a terrible responsibility and I respect that.

I'm confused why people are bringing up NC law on a video that took place in Texas. It would be Texas law in effect, not NC.

As far as the video itself, great job. If we had more citizens standing up for each other we could, as a community, do a lot to stop crime. Much easier to sit here from the safety of my keyboard and say that, having never been in such a situation. I would hope I would react in a manner that I could be proud of after the fact if I was ever in a similar situation, though.

originally posted by: MrSpad
The problem for guns owners is you have a small loud group that loves to make a spectacle of themselves. They parade around on TV or YouTube spouting off about being a patriot and the Evil government and want open carry weapons around for no other reason than for attention. Then you have the other group or irresponsible owners who let their kids get their weapons and shoot themselves, leave loaded and shoot themselves or somebody they know or do not secure the weapon properly and it gets stolen. No suprise most weapons used in crimes started off in the hands of legal gun owners. Then you have the wanna be cowboys who go around shooting unarmed teenage boys or people in movie theaters for texting. I am a vet and I own my share of weapons as do many of my friends. We are all perfecty reasonable people and not under thr illusion we need guns for any particular reason other than we enjoy them. That is our right. You will find our weapons secure and treated with respect and safely at all times. You will not find us parading around with them or making youtube videos. It is a shame that a small group of nutters makes the rest of us look bad. At least in this case this guy did not, of course that does not make headlines.

Of course it does not make headlines because the MSM is virulently anti-gun and does not want to report on proper use of firearms. That the CCW was an African American really upsets the gun grabber agenda.

a reply to: Pimpish

I brought up NC law in my second reply because the poster used NC law as an example. I presented Texas law in my first. I found it interesting that NC is the only state that doesn't allow "Citizen's Arrest" but it does allow "detention" under similar circumstances. I also presented the background of the concept.

originally posted by: Grimmley
a reply to: jaxnmarko

Actually most states that have a CCW laws also have on the books the right to use force in protection of yourself as well as to come to the aid of another.

Grim

As far as I'm aware, all states also compel a person to come to someone else's aid in an accident situation, called the good Samaritan law. A robbery isn't exactly an accident, but the robbers themselves, once busted, might say it was, or that it was just a big misunderstanding. If someone is getting beat up right in front of you, gun or not, normal, caring people would try something. The flipside, though, especially if you are at work, is that the higher ups would rather see you do nothing.

a reply to: NavyDoc

That the CCW was an African American really upsets the gun grabber agenda.

I noticed that too, and also the big white guy standing next to him. Sort of made me smile that people came together to protect the neighborhood. Still dangerous for all but I'm glad that it had a happy ending.

a reply to: Grimmley
here in AZ,we can only fire in self defense,stopping a rape or arson,or,believe it or not,cattle rustling! Look up the AZ livestock law!

a reply to: whywhynot
And to Navydoc:

Thanks for the clarification. When I took my CCW we were told that no citizens arrest was allowed and also no detainment. We were told it was a felony to detain someone at gunpoint. Best to just shoot him. It was about 8 years ago, but either way, I got bad information.

And I still have no desire to shoot anyone.

TEXAS PENAL CODE PC CH. 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
PC §9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

The man holding the gun on the criminals had all the justification needed to support his actions. Good job.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

And he greater endangered his life by holding them at gun point.
The actions of a LEO are not transferred to everyone else.

a reply to: network dude
Agree, definitely got to desire to shoot someone unless there is no other option and its him or me.

In a parallel universe, Good Samaritan without the gun is stabbed to death. Similar situation, different result. I don't believe the answer is for people to stop helping others.

A 47-year-old Good Samaritan was stabbed to death as he tried to stop a purse snatcher who had just robbed a woman in Yucaipa, authorities said.

Vincent DeLeon, 26, pleaded not guilty Tuesday to one count of murder in the death of Troy Cansler and one count of attempted murder for also allegedly stabbing the woman whose purse was stolen, authorities said.

San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies were called to the Stater Bros. grocery story parking lot in Yucaipa around 9:37 p.m. Sunday after a report of an armed robbery and assault. When they arrived, they found Krystina Hanrahan, 26, suffering from stab wounds, KTLA-TV reported.

Hanrahan, who was with her toddler when she was assaulted, said a man stabbed her and stole her purse, according to the sheriff’s department and that Cansler, a stranger, had come to her aid.

Investigators said that when Cansler caught up with DeLeon in the area of 4th Street near Yucaipa Boulevard. the two struggled. DeLeon then allegedly fatally stabbed Cansler, but was arrested a short time later.

Hanrahan, who was stabbed five times -- twice in the arm and three times in the chest -- was expected to survive.

Link

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
sad thing is after a slap on the wrist, these two will be out on the the street doing the same thing.
only difference will be, they would have learned to beat or kill their next victim.

Wow, you really think like that? Well, here's another way to look at it: If they get out of jail and beat or attempt to kill their next victim, then the next guy with a CCW standing nearby will have justification to shoot them.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: whywhynot
And to Navydoc:

Thanks for the clarification. When I took my CCW we were told that no citizens arrest was allowed and also no detainment. We were told it was a felony to detain someone at gunpoint. Best to just shoot him. It was about 8 years ago, but either way, I got bad information.

And I still have no desire to shoot anyone.

That's bad advice right there. I don't know what CCW instructors are teaching in NC, but here in NM they go over every reason NOT to shoot someone, in explicit detail. They let you know the legal hell you will be mired in if you do shoot someone in self defense. Having said that, they also recommend (somewhat off-the-record) that you can shoot until the threat has been mitigated, which is best done by emptying your weapon with excellent shot placement. (Dead men don't lie.)

This situation would have been very different if the perps did get up and try to calmly leave. The guy with the gun would have found himself in a very gray area legally and probably could not have stopped them from leaving and could not shoot them without getting into some hefty legal bills.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
sad thing is after a slap on the wrist, these two will be out on the the street doing the same thing.
only difference will be, they would have learned to beat or kill their next victim.

Wow, you really think like that? Well, here's another way to look at it: If they get out of jail and beat or attempt to kill their next victim, then the next guy with a CCW standing nearby will have justification to shoot them.

it is a known fact that the majority of criminals re-offend doing the same types or new crime when they get out of prison.

About two-thirds (67.8%) of released prisoners were arrested for a new crime within 3 years, and three-quarters (76.6%) were arrested within 5 years.

Within 5 years of release, 82.1% of property offenders were arrested for a new crime, compared to 76.9% of drug offenders, 73.6% of public order offenders, and 71.3% of violent offenders.

More than a third (36.8%) of all prisoners who were arrested within 5 years of release were arrested within the first 6 months after release, with more than half (56.7%) arrested by the end of the first year.

Two in five (42.3%) released prisoners were either not arrested or arrested once in the 5 years after their release.

A sixth (16.1%) of released prisoners were responsible for almost half (48.4%) of the nearly 1.2 million arrests that occurred in the 5-year follow-up period.

An estimated 10.9% of released prisoners were arrested in a state other than the one that released them during the 5-year follow-up period

Within 5 years of release, 84.1% of inmates who were age 24 or younger at release were arrested, compared to 78.6% of inmates ages 25 to 39 and 69.2% of those age 40 or older.
Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 30 States in 2005: Patterns from 2005 to 2010

and that's just 30 states.


ETA: also they learn from their failed attempts or from other inmates what to do in order to be more successful in their criminal endeavors. in this case they were caught because they didn't incapacitate the women and she held on to her purse which the guy stop them while the woman was still holding on. next time they will make sure that she wouldn't be holding on.

a reply to: jaxnmarko

Youre absolutely right about him not firing. In fact, he could also be charged for holding someone against their will for detaining someone...unless he and witnesses can prove he was stopping a felony in progress. But he DAMN SURE better have the right person(s)!!

MS
CPL/CCW Holder

a reply to: dfens

This is true, however not all states (especially those that typically have draconian gun laws on self defense) would rather you be a victim than protect yourself.

blkcwbyhat:
That doesn't surprise me however. As it was explained to me, back in the day that was allowed for two reasons 1) it was protecting their livelihood and 2) the lack of fast responding law enforcement.

retiredTxn:
Alaska and Texas (you know the smaller state ) seems to have the same law when it comes to using force. Although the change in Alaskan law was in the past 10 years. That being said Alaska as a lot of territory that there is no one to help you without it taking hours or days even. Our troopers average 1 to 4 troopers to an area about the size of Virginia (sometimes even as low as 1 trooper.)


Interesting side note, in Alaska a PPA (Private Person Arrest) has the same authority as any LEO's.
Grim

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

I have an issue with most gun owners..the way they talk and such.

Most? There are estimated to be between 70 and 80 million gun owners in the U.S. Approximately how many of them have you talked to or listened to? That's the problem with gun control advocates. They make broad, sweeping generalizations of gun owners, with no evidence to support their presuppositions. In other words, they only hear what they want to hear to justify their claims.

In actuality, "most" gun owners are exactly what you claim in your OP to be accepting of. They are the enormous majority from whom you never hear a word.

The one thing I find issue with is the licensing of gun owners. You do not have to have a license to exercise your freedom of speech. Then why pray tell should you have a license to exercise your right to own firearms. I propose that there should be background checks and classes to get a license to exercise your freedom of speech. What is good for the gander is good for the goose.

a reply to: WTFover

Sounds like , "I'm no racist.....but I have a problem with black people doing......"