The Terrible Fear of Paying the Poor Too Much

a reply to: Dfairlite

Most of these countries have very strong unions which set the minimum wage for their sector. This comes from the principle that more skilled employees should earn more, so let us say in the engineering sector, the minimum wages are one of the highest, while in fast-food they are lower, but still above living wage. In that sense the countries have minimum wage, it is just not set by the government, but unions on different sectors.

Germany for example builds twice as much cars as US, while the average car factory employee earns over 67 dollars an hour, which is largely thanks to the the very strong autoworker unions. Also german constitution gives significant employee rights, so that every companies employees have the right to together negotiate with the management about their wages.

www.forbes.com...

originally posted by: Cabin
There are many out there for whom the top stays at some low skilled job, not because they were not hard-working, but because they lack the talent. 1 in 7 person, for example, has an IQ less than 85, which means they are very likely to never achieve greatness anywhere. Their minds are just not able to grasp complex concepts.

You do realize that someone with a low IQ is still capable of learning complex information and performing difficult tasks, right? All IQ measures is your ability to learn. It's quite possible to have a low IQ and be a brain surgeon or rocket scientist, it's also quite possible (and very common) for someone to have a high IQ and not have a high paying job to go with it.

Statistically the best paid are average to slightly below average in intelligence.

We have been left so far behind in this country that it is causing me to lose faith in being a citizen of the United States.

Any countries out there accepting USA refugees?

a reply to: Cabin

Yes, some of these countries use unions to set the wage for each sector. But notice how government is not involved? My whole ppoint is that people can negotiate a decent wage. No government necessary. I work for a company with no Union and somehow make a well above average wage. Imagine that.

a reply to: Cabin

And here's how the German auto industry works: www.forbes.com... much/

www.forbes.com... much/" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">German auto

Duplicate

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: defcon5
"That is a really tired argument.
Why shouldn't they be for millions of Americans who are willing to work? "

It's not walmart's job to provide people with careers, that's why. Who's job is it to provide a career? why, it's each individuals job to decide what they want to do and develop themselves to the point they're able to do it well.

it's walmarts job to sell products to customers at a price their customers are willing to pay. Not provide careers.

When people are finding work, they have to take the work that is available. This magical idea that jobs exist that don't exist is ridiculous. The jobs that exist are the ones that exist. Fact.

Wal-Mart put a lot of small businesses that did provide careers out of business. That is how come they are mandated to pay workers more than those workers are worth to them.

You write as though you can't create your own job. If you don't find the job you want, the thing to do is to create the job you want. If you are a useful human being, someone will pay you for your usefulness.
My father taught me this as I spent a summer working as a construction laborer for him. He thought it very important that I had a marketable skill other than cooking and sewing. Carpentry skills pay more than most cooking or sewing jobs. Although I've never had to use those skills to make a living, they have certainly served me well over the years.
I've watched dozens of young people go out and create the income they need using their training and talent. Many of them now are employers of other young people. They're working hard and have plenty of bumps in their road but they are the happiest people I know.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Minimum wage 40 years ago was $2.00 and gas was .49 a gallon and my VW bug cost $3K. That same year, my parents bought a brand new, pretty nice house that they paid $24K for.

Minimum wage is now $7.25 and gas is 3.59 a gallon and a VW bug is $24K. That house sold this month for $240K.

Something's wrong with this picture, eh?

Thats right something is wrong with that picture, and a minimum wage job at $10.00 an hour isn't going to fix it.

a reply to: MarlinGrace
It would be a start.Especially seeing as these disgusting CEOs are who forced and are continuing to force millions to this wage.

Totally agree.

If i earned just 5mil in one year - id retire so fast your head would spin.

Im happy to work every day for a normal amount, but id be a lot more happy with a better slice of the pie im contributing to.

Look at microsoft's Bill Gates, 77 billion. Now i realize he has many employees, but even with all those employees, dont you think they would be happier and work harder if more of it went to them? (yes i realize a lot of it is stock investment based, but why cant that be reinvested in microsoft by bill?)

a reply to: Biigs

To be fair Microsoft pay pretty good wages from what I hear.

Its the Walmarts and Banking groups that are the problem here I think.

Not all Co operations are evil.

a reply to: crazyewok

Oh completely, i work in a profession and the pay is good.

My point about Microsoft was that even with good wages Bill could still double everyone's pay and still make a huge profit. Double wages of, albeit many more employees country wide but all the basic wage, Walmart workers should be cheap compared.

Actually i know a few people who would rather use their hands than their brains at work, if only the pay wasn't so completely inadequate.

How long till large factories get together and make real live on site work towns?

a reply to: Biigs

But should they? If the employees are earning a good wage and living well and not having to rely on government welfare to stay alive I dont see the problem.

I landed my first real job at Coca cola with a wage of £50,000 before redundancy my 2nd car was going to be a Audi R8 at 21! Of course I had a skilled job but even so the lower workers were on £25-28k a year. Now the company was turning over multi Billions in profit and could have doubled our wages but why should they? We all to me were earning a good wage and I had no Issues with the CEO taking there massive take.

a reply to: crazyewok

It was a hypothetical to show that even with decent and FAR larger wages for the staff most large company's can afford it, so why cant walmart and macdonalds? (for people living on really too little to be happy, cover themselfs health wise, eat properly etc and so on)

You should not expect to make 20 bucks an hour to flip burgers or for simple labor etc.. This hurts us all, if you want more you must pursue some other line of work. I don't need any $10.00 burgers or $300.00 yard trimmings etc..

Plus what about the millions of little guys who need non skilled cheap labor to stay afloat at all? Something for nothing, the costs to society be damned! Hell, let's make it impossible for the mom and pop operation and consolidate all things into corporations that can pay unskilled labor $20.00 an hour! Great plan but all you will do is raise the cost of living and further increase our dependence on cheap Chinese labor.

Struggle is the father of all things, who in their right mind would do anything if you earn big bucks at a stress free burger flipping gig?

to: Aazadan
In which world do you live in. Prices in Australia are far greater than 10% more than the Usa. I know as i live in Australia. Try an average Sydney house price of above $600000, $25 plus for a packet of cigarettes and car prices that about double that of the usa. Yes our wages are about double that of the usa to but so are most of the things that make up the cost of living. Having had this discussion with other workers in other counties give or take 10 - 20% on a basket of goods and services people are about the same standard of living for the level of job that they do in most western counties. The standard of living is also falling in most western countries as the very rich are getting disproportunately wealthier.
From what i can understand about the cost of living in the Usa the minimum wage needs to be about $12 per hour. Much more it becomes to much of a disencentive to employ people and the unemployment rate would then start to rise. Another thing that needs to happen and this is world wide is that governments need to make companies put at least 15% of a workers wage away in to superannuation that is tax free and able to be reinvested in good solid companies to grow the economy When considering investments with superannuation a longer term approach to investmentsshould be considered. This would mean that businesses could invest for the long term growing those businesses and creating a vibrant economies instead of basket cases that can only think 10 minutes in advance.When a worker retires this could then be payed out as a pension saving future governments extensive liabilities paying out social security

originally posted by: Cabin
a reply to: Dfairlite

Most of these countries have very strong unions which set the minimum wage for their sector. This comes from the principle that more skilled employees should earn more, so let us say in the engineering sector, the minimum wages are one of the highest, while in fast-food they are lower, but still above living wage. In that sense the countries have minimum wage, it is just not set by the government, but unions on different sectors.



www.forbes.com...[/quote ]


Labor wages are largely based on skill level. How about some market relative determination. Fast food is big business, high dollar pimping low wage earners based on skill rather than cash flow. High dollar eatery's pay a dishwasher low wages based on skill? They put up with high turnaround rather than just pay something better. Its the old any dumb azz can wash dishes reason for paying on the cheep.

a reply to: Donkey_Dean

The issue though is many people are unskilled. Not everyone is blessed with intelligence and talent. What of them?

No they don't deserve to to earn the same as a professional. Id be pissed if a laborer earned the same as me

BUT

They do deserve a wage that wont make them homeless or starve to death! And certainly a wage should be self sustaining without government hand outs to top it up.

Do you want a country were people start to starve to death and shanty towns start to appear?

a reply to: BurbGirl378

This "trickle down" was never meant to be a cost to the Consumer, but to be a cost to the profit margin of the Corporation. The Corporations and their Shareholders must share the profits with the workers. That was the whole point of the Bush tax cuts. The profit that the Corporations realized by not paying taxes would be re-directed to the workers. Instead the Corporate Jerks kept the profits and created chaos in the markets by implementing the 2008 market crash and mortgage foreclosure crisis.

That's exactly my point.

Thanks for recognizing it.

a reply to: crazyewok

While tea-partiers and others on the fringe deplore "government interference" in business and personal affairs, I think it is time to speak honestly about what is going on. That villain "the gubmint" is now providing assistance to Walmart employees whose salaries are so low their employees are eligible for medicaid, food stamps, and other programs that benefit the poor, whose ranks are growing daily.

So Walmart just lets the rest of the country support their workers rather than paying them a living wage, all the time complaining about government overreach. Not to mention raking in all those profits they make by using what amounts to slave labor. They have no incentive to improve salaries or working conditions.

And Walmart is just one.

We need to see labor unions coming back strong again, as we did in the early 20th century.