The Sun is Invisible in space!!

originally posted by: GallopingFish
Apparently the sun cannot be seen by the visible spectrum in space!!

Light cannot be seen unless it's bouncing off objects or particles.

And the light receptors in your eye are "objects or particles".

I suppose your argument is akin to the notion that a tree falling in the woods with nothing around to hear it does not make a sound. That could be considered true ONLY IF "sound" is defined as vibrations being picked up by an ear and interpreted by a brain. Similarly, It may be true that a photo zipping through the vacuum of space cannot be "seen" until it hits something, such as a moon or the receptors in your eyes...

...However, thinking of light that way would be quite a logical leap (right off a cliff) because your argument basically is "you can't see light until you see it".

originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
a reply to: Rob48

For starters....get a grip. Most of what was taught in science to many has become old hat and most people don't bother to study up on space science thereafter and certainly nothing around them encourages them do so anyway.

And yet people seem to waste hours watching ignorant rubbish on YouTube?

Indeed, that right there is a travesty. If anything YouTube should be used to explore new ideas that are shared. The onus is on the watcher to research it for themselves for that is how one obtains knowledge.

There's been a lot of argument about which stimulates the mind more TV or books. Although I concede some people watch a movie and explore motives and try to read foreshadowing et, but normally for me my mind becomes mostly lathargec. When I read I become lost in the words and after awhile I remember I'm actually reading. No doubt after a good long read my brain is pleased with the workout as all muscles are.

You are correct though, if people spent more time reading they would learn to discern things for themselves instead of being told.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: GallopingFish
Apparently the sun cannot be seen by the visible spectrum in space!!

Light cannot be seen unless it's bouncing off objects or particles.

And the light receptors in your eye are "objects or particles".

I suppose your argument is akin to the notion that a tree falling in the woods with nothing around to hear it does not make a sound. That could be considered true ONLY IF "sound" is defined as vibrations being picked up by an ear and interpreted by a brain. Similarly, It may be true that a photo zipping through the vacuum of space cannot be "seen" until it hits something, such as a moon or the receptors in your eyes...

...However, thinking of light that way would be quite a logical leap (right off a cliff) because your argument basically is "you can't see light until you see it".

wow, horseshoe crab eyes?

Rayleigh scattering? really?

in a way i agree with the OP, you can't see light unless it is the source or bouncing off something.

but not an invisible sun.

originally posted by: tsingtao
in a way i agree with the OP, you can't see light unless it is the source or bouncing off something.

but not an invisible sun.

I agree "in a way" with the OP also. A photon of light is not radiating its own light. It needs to interact with something to be noticed.

However, as soon as it hits an eye, it is interacting with something, and thus is visible. So the OP's odd argument comes again down to the obvious fact that "light can't be seen until it is seen".

If this is the standard of science knowledge of people who have (presumably) completed their education, I am seriously worried. In another 100 years we'll be back to living in caves, at this rate...

This is my first visit to ATS after several weeks break, and I am still...boggling...my mind..upon this thread.

You know, we live in a time where a lunar eclipse is now in the media referred to as "blood moon" and where the fact that it is a lunar eclipse is mentioned two paragraphs below buried in the article. This is another indication for the ongoing "stupidification" of the society as a whole, just saying.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

I agree "in away" with the OP also. A photon of light is not radiating its own light. It needs to interact with something to be noticed.

That part isn't controversial. The total logical disconnect comes in the leap to "you can't see the sun in space if you're looking right at it".

For anyone who is confused: imagine you are in empty space, with the sun behind you. There are no other objects around for the sun to shine on (and no part of your body is in your line of sight to reflect the light). You would be unaware that the sun was there, as long as you couldn't feel its warmth on your back. You would just see blackness. However, if you turn around to face the sun, you will see it perfectly clearly, because you have a line of sight to it!

This is obviously different from the case on Earth, where even with your back to the sun, you can see that it is there because lots of objects, including the air molecules in the sky itself, are reflecting the light back to you. And this must be where people are getting muddled, but I don't see what is so hard to grasp.

originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: DarknStormy

I concur with Phage, how do you think the STEREO spacecraft send us real-time images of the sun?

Why do you think astronauts have to wear specially coated visors?

When you look at the light in your living room directly, why is it not invisible?

how do you think the STEREO spacecraft send us real-time images of the sun?

detectors for different wavelengths of the EM spectrum ?!?

He is not saying the Sun does not radiate, he is just saying Sun is not radiating in visible spectrum...

Why is the Sun reddish as it goes down ? EM waves travelling trough atmosphere loose the blue spectrum of the EM wave therefore more red visible.
The colours we see are actually the parts of the emitted spectrum, what spectrum hydrogen atoms emit ?? That is what we see in Space without any optical filters.

originally posted by: KrzYma
...Why is the Sun reddish as it goes down ? EM waves travelling trough atmosphere loose the blue spectrum of the EM wave therefore more red visible...

If the Sunset is red due to the EM emissions from the sun being effected until mostly the red visible light portion of those EM emissions are seen, then that indicates to me that the red visible light portion of the EM spectrum was in fact part of the Sun's EM emissions...

...i.e., the visible spectrum is part of the Sun's EM output.

originally posted by: KrzYma

He is not saying the Sun does not radiate, he is just saying Sun is not radiating in visible spectrum...

And he is wrong. If I heat a piece of iron until it's quite hot, I don't get just the spectral lines of iron. It's going to glow white if I get it to about 1500C. That's because thermal radiation follows a blackbody law, it's not just spectral lines of the excited elements.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: KrzYma
...Why is the Sun reddish as it goes down ? EM waves travelling trough atmosphere loose the blue spectrum of the EM wave therefore more red visible...

If the Sunset is red due to the EM emissions from the sun being effected until mostly the red visible light portion of those EM emissions are seen, then that indicates to me that the red visible light portion of the EM spectrum was in fact part of the Sun's EM emissions...

...i.e., the visible spectrum is part of the Sun's EM output.

yes, but this red light is also just scattered light of particles in the atmosphere.

originally posted by: KrzYma

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: KrzYma
...Why is the Sun reddish as it goes down ? EM waves travelling trough atmosphere loose the blue spectrum of the EM wave therefore more red visible...

If the Sunset is red due to the EM emissions from the sun being effected until mostly the red visible light portion of those EM emissions are seen, then that indicates to me that the red visible light portion of the EM spectrum was in fact part of the Sun's EM emissions...

...i.e., the visible spectrum is part of the Sun's EM output.

yes, but this red light is also just scattered light of particles in the atmosphere.

Why are they emitting the visible light spectrum but the Sun can't?

I have not read all of the posts yet but this just doesn't sound right. How do we get photographs of it from the various solar cameras and other space-borne telescopes?

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

OH, I wasn't saying what wavelengths the Sun is emitting, I never did any measurements on this, I was just repeating what he was saying in the video.

But if I ever do any measurements on this I will let you know

The guy doesn't understand that stars act like any other thermal radiator, it's a near-blackbody emission. So it glows with a color that's related to its temperature, filtered somewhat by the elements in its photosphere, chromosphere and corona. There's nothing unusual about how a star emits light. It's the same mechanism as any white-hot object And it's not just emission lines from elements.

Is there something about Youtube that attracts uneducated people with cameras?

Well, I see some truth to what is being said. You see a flashlight because it is interacting with the surface tension created by the mirror. The surface tension is what glows. From space the sun will not look like it does here. Daylight is the interaction of the rays with our atmosphere, basically energizing the surface tension of the earth, which is great enough to extend into space. Think of power lines, the energy travels through the surface tension, if the surface tension is too close, it causes the wire to melt. Now, we do not see the energy on the power line unless we use special lenses. We do not see the surface tension of the earth unless it is illuminated by the energy of the sun.

The sun could be a small ball of a solid that is sort of like a catalyst, interacting with space to create a surface tension far from the core. Sort of like the atmosphere of earth interacts with the sun's rays. The surface tension creates a bow shock which is the heliosphere. Now, this is the way I look at what science is saying, translating it to what I understand. If You cut a rounder for firewood, then put it into a fire, it glows and throws off energy in various forms. If you split the firewood, the surface tension is broken in the round form and it bleeds the heat and light off. The firewood actually does what the sun does if round, sucking the energy back into the surface, creating a sort of gravitational field. Rounders burn longer but usually not as hot, the same amount of energy is emitted, just buffered by the surface tension. If something interferes with the surface roundness, the energy is erupted, sort of like a flare.

Now, I do not know what the core of a sun is made of, and as far as I have read, most people are just making theories of what is inside, there is no evidence to prove any claim yet. We know about nuclear fusion and fission, but it may be different than this all together, It could be sort of an explosion that actually is buffered because the sun distorts time because of the extreme energy of the surface tension drawing time back within.

I can make up all sort of possibilities that defy what they have told us. Science can only propose theories based on what they already know. How a sun works may be completely different than what we know. Our present theories may be way off, but the evidence we use to prove the theory is based on assumptions of what we know being right when it may be only partly right.

Ok, so now that I have made a wild assumption, I need to go finish my soup.

Another thing is that our eye is shaped like the atmosphere. It can perceive the stars and solar disk.

a reply to: rickymouse

Could you explain what you mean by "surface tension" in this context?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Phage

Apparently the sun cannot be seen by the visible spectrum in space!!

That's stupid.

And this next video goes on to say that the sun is not a raging ball of nuclear energy but something else.

Ditto.

Second that motion i actually thought it was a joke but hes serious. Its times like these i have concerns for Humanity.

Phage some'd it up real good.

Stay in school, kids. Go to science class instead of getting high in your car.

This is about the weirdest thread and video I've seen on ATS. Satire at its finest, but apparently not satire. Wha?

And thanks to Phage for coming to the rescue of the sun. Very odd thread, more like it please!