Foreigners dictating what it means to be British

reply to post by Freeborn

I think as a nation we are trying.

Laws of the land should be respected, always. If a law is unjust it needs to be dealt with properly, not just some people exempted because of their religion or culture... and for others to not resent that exemption but walk through the door someone opened and expand that exemption into abolishment.

Interestingly many of these issues relate to the abuse of women. Female Genital Mutilation. Honour killings. Grooming of vulnerable and at risk children. (unfortunately far from being unique to immigrant groups but definitely disproportionately so). Repressive divorce laws. Forced marriages. Just to name a few.

I don't know statistics in England, but here... every culture knows violence against women.

However, there seems to be an element within our society that attempts to downplay and even supress reporting of these issues for fear of provoking anti-immigrant sentiments or giving the impression that all is not well with our 'multi-cultural' society.

We have people like that too. I'm often accused of being such a person simply because I'm not racist. I think people similar to my mentality often find themselves feeling parental toward a demonized culture. You know the type of parent that insists their child is an angel. That doesn't work a parenting technique and it doesn't work as an advocate/activist technique either. Injustice and violence exist in all cultures, ignoring that to help a group gain acceptance by xenophobes accomplishes nothing, just because a person is a xenophobe doesn't make them stupid in all things.

Conversely, using female genital mutilation as an excuse to make an entire group 'icky others', isn't right either. The article linked a few posts ago, for instance, stated 4,000 cases of FGM, 8 having taken place on a girl that lived in the UK. How many of those 4,000 fled the area that it happened to them in? And should a woman fleeing that culture hate everything about her culture? Should 'we' hate her entire culture because they practice such a barbaric thing? Why doesn't she stay and fight it among her people? Are her people in a position to even make it a top priority or are they fighting warlords armed by the West because that tribe is barbaric and therefor should be eradicated oh and by the way they sit on uranium/rare earths/diamonds. It's all connected.

No, no one should be afraid to call out an unjustice or act of violence... they shouldn't be labeled racist for pointing out a guy that performs FGD on UK soil or fosters a network to get girls in and out of the UK to have it done. Nor should anyone whine about how they get away with it while whites get away with nothing, like a spoiled child.

I appreciate the way you discuss the topic, we may not agree but you're willing to dig deeper into issues while others are more like the spoiled child.

reply to post by ScottProphhit


Oh without a doubt but the point i was alluding to, was that it's far less of a headache for the police to claim that an attack was racially motivated when it is white on another race/colour than it is to claim the opposite. If they get the latter incorrect there is normally a louder outcry/backlash than the former, but strictly speaking i have no facts to back that up, just what i have experienced and heard from family friends that work in the police.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

It's an odd moment in history that the former world powers - US, Great Britain, France and Germany are all struggling with massive immigration and losing their identities while the communist countries of Russia and China have no such issues and are both faring better economically than their former foes.

And yet the IMF have predicted the UK to have the fastest growth rate out of all G 7 countries and Russia in the coming year.
I think people over estimate the stability of the Russian and Chinese economies.

Also would you want your society to be like the Chinese or Russians, where diversity is pretty much stomped out? They still look like pretty repressive states to me.

reply to post by demus


Hey, i haven't argued either way. I was trying to point out that data does not equal fact, you have to understand how that data is collected and presented. Even then, most data can be skewed to suit an agenda.

reply to post by Cuervo


I'd applaud you if I could for this single post;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

ScottProphhit
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

I'm stereotyping xenophobes? Lol youre the one that is acting out on prejudice. You say youd love to be Muslim, clearly not or you would be? You said you were scared of Muslim gangs, what is scary about that? Man your thoughts are the most powerful thing you have. Maybe read Malcolm X. Trust me.

edit on th2014-04-09T09:56:02-05:0020143030-05:00Wed, 09 Apr 2014 09:56:02 -05002014p09 by ScottProphhit because: (no reason given)

firstly i did not say i was scared of muslim gangs. But i wouldnt let my daughter associate with them.
Secondly xenophobia is a recognised medical condition.
Thirdly why are you sticking up for fgm and the muslim peodo gangs

I would like to speak freely about this but i would get jail like this woman did. m.youtube.com...

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

Secondly xenophobia is a recognised medical condition.

Next will be paedophilia & necrophilia & racism & every other abhorrent attitude or desire to engulf mankind!!!

This is not an excuse... Recognised it may be, doesn't mean it is a true illness!!!



Peace everybody!!!

symptomoftheuniverse

ScottProphhit
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

I'm stereotyping xenophobes? Lol youre the one that is acting out on prejudice. You say youd love to be Muslim, clearly not or you would be? You said you were scared of Muslim gangs, what is scary about that? Man your thoughts are the most powerful thing you have. Maybe read Malcolm X. Trust me.

edit on th2014-04-09T09:56:02-05:0020143030-05:00Wed, 09 Apr 2014 09:56:02 -05002014p09 by ScottProphhit because: (no reason given)

firstly i did not say i was scared of muslim gangs. But i wouldnt let my daughter associate with them.
Secondly xenophobia is a recognised medical condition.
Thirdly why are you sticking up for fgm and the muslim peodo gangs

I would like to speak freely about this but i would get jail like this woman did. m.youtube.com...

"This and peodo muslim gangs is why i suffer from xenophobia. "
Sounds shaky to me. I'm not sticking up for them, I'm saying the issue is only for a minority of Muslims, 66000 estimated to be mutilated? Out of a billion Muslims that's not 1%(and its an exaggeration) so you could meet a hundred female Muslims and make them all orgasm if you wanted to. And the gangs. Maybe it's Asian gangs you have a problem with, not Muslim, but even then the real gangsters are handling your money! You're frightened of some poverty stricken teenagers.

This is not an excuse... Recognised it may be, doesn't mean it is a true illness!!!

"I have an irrational fear, it justifies my opinion!"

ScottProphhit

symptomoftheuniverse

ScottProphhit
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

I'm stereotyping xenophobes? Lol youre the one that is acting out on prejudice. You say youd love to be Muslim, clearly not or you would be? You said you were scared of Muslim gangs, what is scary about that? Man your thoughts are the most powerful thing you have. Maybe read Malcolm X. Trust me.

edit on th2014-04-09T09:56:02-05:0020143030-05:00Wed, 09 Apr 2014 09:56:02 -05002014p09 by ScottProphhit because: (no reason given)

firstly i did not say i was scared of muslim gangs. But i wouldnt let my daughter associate with them.
Secondly xenophobia is a recognised medical condition.
Thirdly why are you sticking up for fgm and the muslim peodo gangs

I would like to speak freely about this but i would get jail like this woman did. m.youtube.com...

"This and peodo muslim gangs is why i suffer from xenophobia. "
Sounds shaky to me. I'm not sticking up for them, I'm saying the issue is only for a minority of Muslims, 66000 estimated to be mutilated? Out of a billion Muslims that's not 1%(and its an exaggeration) so you could meet a hundred female Muslims and make them all orgasm if you wanted to. And the gangs. Maybe it's Asian gangs you have a problem with, not Muslim, but even then the real gangsters are handling your money! You're frightened of some poverty stricken teenagers.

This is not an excuse... Recognised it may be, doesn't mean it is a true illness!!!

"I have an irrational fear, it justifies my opinion!"

edit on th2014-04-09T10:19:23-05:0020143030-05:00Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:19:23 -05002014p10 by ScottProphhit because: (no reason given)

edit on th2014-04-09T10:19:52-05:0020143030-05:00Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:19:52 -05002014p10 by ScottProphhit because: (no reason given)

66000 in the u.k alone. Stop it now,twisting the truth. Jeeze

Xenophobia an illness? Then the entirety of East Asia must be sufferers.

The UK had 900 years of cultural stability with a rather homogenous population. In those 900 years, Britain became great, forged their own culture, system of society. That system of society was so successful for its people and itself that it was, for quite a while, the most successful system of society in the entire world.

I have no problem with immigration. What I have a problem with is unchecked immigration. History has shown over and over and over again, that demographics are destiny. The UK is in a situation where its unchecked immigration is actually subverting it's home brewed competitive and successful system of society. If there is any question whatsoever about this, I dare anyone posting on this board who isn't Arab or Paki to go to Luton or Tower Hamlets. I have zero problem with a Paki or Arab wanting to become British. But when the majority of immigrants form ghettos, the liklihood of them becoming British (as it relates to outlook, and accepting of the host culture and system of society). When you have unchecked immigration doing that, they don't become British. What you have isn't a successful addition or minor tweak to the already established successful and competitive system of society to make it better, what you get instead is a gradual replacement.

Whoever said 2nd generation immigrants aren't British is making a sweeping statement. That just isn't true. I'm a 2nd generation American (my parents are British) I feel American, but I know many 2nd generation Americans who are way more American than I am. This is minutia. People need to look at the big macro movements.

To put things into perspective, there has been more immigration into the UK in the last 20 years than there has been in the previous 900 combined, not only in outright numbers but as a percentage, too.

If you want to live in a successful society that you feel is fair but also competitive on an international scale, then accepting immigration is fine. Accepting unchecked immigration is not.

I dont even know where to start with that OP. it has so many holes and just oozes racism.
I havent read the whole thread but some good posts from woodwrdjr and others.
Nice to see Britain does not tolerate racism, and i don't mean the video, I mean the thread and the sentiment behind it.
I am sure immigration is being discussed and of course there is a legitimate conversation to be had, and there does seem to be one taking place in wider society, but some like to mask their hatred and racism with 'genuine' concern about inmigration, it is just an excuse to hype up the us vs them mentality and prey on the fear of concerned parents and jobless folks.

The OP is basically of the opinion that only White Christian folk are British and that is an abhorrent view to hold in the twenty first century

Kali74

Truth of the matter is, we have no idea what Africa or any indigenous peoples would be like today without Western interference. The West has intentionally fomented wars between tribes, made water and food scarce to tribes in areas that has minerals, gold, diamonds or whatever else we find valuable... then offered 'solutions' to their poverty via mining/factory jobs or arming them to fight other tribes.

Dont be ridiculous.

Africa had a long history of tribal warfare and poverty even before us evil whites turned up.

That why we got slaves from them in the first place, the savages were so busy at each other throats and selling each other into slavery already. Europeans just took advantages of that.

Instead of playing the blame game Africa should grow up take responsibility for there mess there in, then they may be able to get somewhere.

Using past European inference as a excuse to justify there current genocides, corruption and civil wars is just pathetic.

reply to post by crazyewok


Don't Forget Turks, Arabs, and Persians. Their slave exploitation of Africa for slaves was almost 1100 years long and decidedly more brutal. I can't remember the word, but there is an Arab homonym that means both black person and slave at the same time.

Almost every culture on the planet has been guilty of using slaves. The English sold some 500,000 Irish slaves to North America. At one point, Irish slaves outnumbered black African slaves, and were cheaper. The Romans enslaved everyone, including other Romans. The African kingdoms enslaved one another. The Arabs. The CHinese. The Indian kingdoms.

Ever read the story of Baibars, the famous Egyptian Mamluk Sultan? He was a blonde haired slave captured in a raid in what is now Romania. He eventually became Sultan of Egypt.

In my opinion, its a dark part of humanity's past. Not just a dark part of Europe's, or North America's, or the Middle East's.

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


66000 estimated to have came from around the world that have genital mutilation, take the fact its just a guess and add the fact that Britain is really popular for Asians(we're supposed to be welcoming!) It won't be much more than 1%, it won't be 2%

ScottProphhit
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

66000 estimated to have came from around the world that have genital mutilation, take the fact its just a guess and add the fact that Britain is really popular for Asians(we're supposed to be welcoming!) It won't be much more than 1%, it won't be 2%

twisting again " At least 66,000 girls and women in the UK are believed to be victims of FGM. " from the link i provided.
And its mostly africans not asians.
Thats the last time i correct you.
Just associating fgm with the u.k is something i am very ashamed of. Truth hurts indeed, and no one is getting prosecuted. But the white woman on a bus gets three months in jail for speaking the truth.

SearchLightsInc
All i really have to add to this debate is how much i notice white working-class people being under represented (If at all) In media, politics, education. There's a whole class of people who's culture has just been sh!t on for decades, only now to see it morph into drinking and drug culture - That foreigners are more than happy to supply.

I dont know what it mean's to be British but im pretty sure this whole opening your arms to everyone else's culture while your very own has been destroyed isnt the idea people would have dreamt of 60 years ago.

Its difficult to believe that the many of the first generation of migrants to this country still barely speak english - That's how much effort they put into "Embracing different cultures"

Rant over.

For me, what it meant to be British really depended on whether you lived in the country villages, the city suburbs or the inner cities. In the villages, you have the country lifestyle, going around in wellington boots, driving jeeps, tractors, living in farm cottages and manor houses. Every village has their fishmonger, greengrocer, newspaper shop, butcher, flower shop, post office, church, red telephone boxes, not forgetting the local pub. Everyone was employed locally, and good were manufactured locally.
The city suburbs ranged from everything from detached homes to terraced apartments, and the inner cities had people like the Cockneys and local pubs too. Then you had/have all the creative authors like Douglas Adams who wrote books like HHGTTG, Thunderbirds, Space 1999.

The following website has photographs of what things used to look like. It's impossible to describe everything in one comment.

www.britainfromabove.org.uk...

Galvatron


The UK had 900 years of cultural stability with a rather homogenous population. In those 900 years, Britain became great, forged their own culture, system of society. That system of society was so successful for its people and itself that it was, for quite a while, the most successful system of society in the entire world.

So a small group of 'British' families make tons of money of the population and an empire over those years while most people lived in similar poverty to what the Brazilian slums are like now, but either dealing with corrupt churches taking their money and later on they had # flowing through the street.

You seem to think everyone in britain prospered from Britain being prosperous, when I was being taught about William Wallace at school I made sure to study what life was like for people at that time. Britain was rich enough for every person to have had luxury(just like the world has enough resources for everyone in the planet to be jetpacking everywhere while stuffing their faces with fresh fruit) but that was exclusively kept for the elite.

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


I untwisted the bbc article, it's something that is necessary in media so you dont end up with silly phobias or delusions

Yup the UK was in constant war in that period between various houses/bloodlines, counties, countries and English was formed from 40% germanic 60% french language due to how vibrant our trade was - there's always been large influxes of people from various countries - it's how we became rich in the first place. Even Anglo Saxon comes from the angle and saxon invaders, plus Great Britain is a mistranslation of the French Grande Britannia as there was no English channel separating us and Europe in Ice Ages.

Our society and legal system came from vikings/nordic tribes. Not Brits who were working nearly 24/7 and barely making enough to survive. It's a mythical romantic image that's spread by nationalists but has no basis in reality, apart from isolated areas like Anglesey

reply to post by crazyewok


I dunno, he raises a very good point. The West used divide and rule to control tribes and fracture the functioning societies they'd already created.

In Rwanda, as the Belgians were leaving they practiced eugenics between hutus and tutsis, told tutsis they were a genetically superior and seperate race that should overthrow the hutus - whereas in reality they were identical and had had equal positions in government for hundreds of years before Belgian colonialisation.

These lies led to one of biggest genocides in human history. The same is true for the African World War in the Congo that has claimed the lives of over 6 million people as they fight for bauxite and rare minerals we need for modern gadgets - with arms companies arming both sides of the conflict equally so prices are driven down and the flow of cheap consumer goods continues.

When the West has tried to help with things like live aid they gave the money to Idi Amin who spent a big chunk on weapons and caused the deaths of more people than what Live Aid was set up to stop.

It seems the only way we can help is to only buy second hand electronics.

reply to post by ScottProphhit


Don't assume I thought it made everyone's lives better. You know what happens when you assume... you make an ass out of u and me. I know very well the history of exploitation of the lower classes and Scottish, and Welsh, and Irish.

It doesn't change the fact that the fundamentals of the UK's system of society today are a result of that forging. For a rather large portion of its history, the British were better off than almost everyone else in the world because of their system of society. Whether or not that translates into today's standards or whether or not it was fair is moot. If you compare the economics, standard of living, military power, and a host of other variables, for almost 200 years being born British was what you wanted to be born if such a choice existed.

You also must know that the average commoner wasn't a destitute individual living in squalor, especially in the medieval period. It's a Hollywood portrayal that all serfs were muck farmers. Its a Hollywood portrayal that all commoners during the Victorian period lived in dank alleys while the wealthy flicked them shillings to shine their shoes. www.youtube.com...