Discrimination now Legal In Mississippi

Grimpachi

Bone75

Gryphon66

Bone75

No, the a**hole is the gay person who turns to their mate and says "Let's go make that Christian bake us a wedding cake." or "Let's go make that Christian take our wedding photos."

IN this scenario, did the gay folk poll bakers just to find out which ones were Christian?

Yep, sounds reasonable. (Not.)

More reasonable than thinking a business owner is going to start polling customers to find out which ones are sinners, especially in small towns where everyone knows each other.

edit on b20144America/Chicago75 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

You know I heard there is a religion out there that says all mankind are sinners they were even born that way except for one dude. Now if someone of that faith were to have a business and deny service to everyone who was a sinner then who the hell would they sell to. That's a messed up business model they couldn't even sell to themselves.

Clearly the poster you replied to believe's everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others

doubletap
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Evidently reading comprehension isn't your speciality....look up a few posts and you will see me say I despise religion. I am not a "religious folk". I support the rights of the business owner to run their business in the way they see fit.

You can call yourself blue mate and that doesnt make it true. You're supporting discrimination, this is why im having a go at you. You comprehend that?

Why don't you educate me on the constitution since you seem to think I know nothing about it and you're the expert.

I'll be waiting sweetie.

Doesnt take an expert to understand the entire purpose of the constitution is to create an equal society where all member's are protected by law and legal representation regardless of gender, race, religious belief's, sexual orientation, rich or poor.

Serving anyone in the above category in a business sense does not infringe upon religious belief's and therefore you have no right to discriminate against any of them. If you do actively discriminate then you really have no business trading with the general public and should be shut down immediately.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Lol are you serious?

Where does the constitution mention sexual orientation?

I have no problem with gays and support their right to get married, for one simple reason : government has no authority to dictate who consenting adults can marry or what they do in their bedrooms.

So you want businesses to be shut down if the owner has opinions you dont like and expresses those opinions through the way they run their business? Wow, good to see you love the idea of freedom....as long as you agree with what freedoms people have.

You do know the constitution only applies to government correct? When you enter someone's home or business, you have no freedom of speech, you have no right to keep and bear arms, etc etc.

For a constitutional scholar, you really don't know the basics.

doubletap
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

So you want businesses to be shut down if the owner has opinions you dont like and expresses those opinions through the way they run their business? Wow, good to see you love the idea of freedom....as long as you agree with what freedoms people have.

If a business owner wont serve someone because of their gender, religious belief, race or sexual orientation then yes, they should be shut down for being counter-productive to protecting the freedom of others.

You do know the constitution only applies to government correct? When you enter someone's home or business, you have no freedom of speech, you have no right to keep and bear arms, etc etc.

For a constitutional scholar, you really don't know the basics.

Home's are private, businesses deal with the general public, if your not willing to trade with all member's of the general public then you have no business setting up a trade in the first place.

Well since I read here that the bill has been passed I see one of two things happening as a result.

1. It will be challenged in court where a legal precedent will be set. If it goes higher than the state then that precedent will apply to all future cases across the nation.

2. I can see where the LGBT community like in some states will fall under the same protected class as all other minorities at a federal level.

There is a third option.

Both one and two happen.

Good old Mississippi as backwards as ever. Forceing the goverment hands to make people act decent since before civil rights.

Yo, doubletap.

What's up, why did you skip me??? I've been kind enough to answer your questions, the least you could do is answer mine.

So here it is again:

So what's with the push to enact legislation allowing you to discriminate then??? If you can already do it in more subtle ways then you don't need this new law do you??? Especially not when it's authority comes from a bunch of jackasses in black robes, right???

Oh wait I see, it's the "subtle" part that you don't like when it comes to discrimination. You want to be openly and without restriction to use Business and Commerce within the beloved free market to discriminate against certain people, right???

Because already being able to discriminate against them in subtle and sneaky ways wasn't good enough for ya huh.....

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Again, you have no freedom of speech in my business. You do not have the right to carry a gun into my business, you are allowed to do it because I encourage it.

You mistakenly believe people have a right to force others to do business with them. There is no right to so at any store you want if the owner of the site didn't want your business.

doubletap

Evidently reading comprehension isn't your speciality....look up a few posts and you will see me say I despise religion. I am not a "religious folk". I support the rights of the business owner to run their business in the way they see fit.

I'm just curious if you realize this new law is for RELIGIOUS FOLK, not business owners in general right??

You not being a Religious person as you've stated get no benefit from it. After all it's called the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" and while it does include businesses, it's contingent upon RELIGIOUS beliefs being burdened for it to have any usefulness.

You and your business would not apply to it. Other religious businesses however could discriminate against you and your business though if they hold a religious belief that doing business with you is a burden to them. Special rights for special people I guess huh. Funny that you would support such a thing.

SearchLightsInc

doubletap
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I despise religion and this bill protects the rights of business owners. You seem to think they shouldn't have rights.

Why is that? Childish ignorance, or no respect for rights for people who have opinions you don't like?

So business owner's have a right to refuse service to people based on their gender, race or sexual orientation?

Yes, clearly im the ignorant one with a few loose screws

No. Business owners in MS now have the right to NOT provide a service that causes THEM to sin.

Speaking for myself here, if a gay person comes to me and asks me to bake him a cake, I would be delighted to. Contrary to popular belief, my Bible commands me to love everyone and I live my life by that rule. I don't hate gays and I would never refuse service to someone just because they are or might be gay.

But if the same guy comes to me and asks me to make him and his fiance(?) a WEDDING cake, then that’s crossing a big red line for me because the Bible is very clear on how God feels about homosexual RELATIONSHIPS. That cake is going to be used in a ceremony that is an abomination to my God, and if I don't feel comfortable making the cake, then I shouldn't have to make the cake.

That's not judging someone, that's keeping my hands clean.

Same thing if I were a photographer...
Gay man comes to me and asks me to take his picture... no problem.
Gay man comes to me and asks me to take pictures of him and his partner... Big problem.

reply to post by mOjOm


Sorry, was busy being enlightened by our resident constitutional scholar.

First up: do you agree there are subtle ways of discriminating? If so, do you believe it happens often?

doubletap
reply to post by Gryphon66

 

They could always take their little hurt feelings to another bakery like a mature adult would do.

Instead , they choose to whine and sue.

Conversely, the baker could advance into the 21st century and get over their silly little medieval superstitions ...

See, how the whole thing makes NO sense.

Bakers bake cakes.

Photographers photograph.

That's the solution, if you're open for business, do business.

mOjOm


So what's with the push to enact legislation allowing you to discriminate then???

I believe I asked the question first and since no one dared to answer it, I suppose I will...

BECAUSE WE ARE PREPARING TO LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE!
DUHHH!!!!

Why else would a state that doesn't even allow civil unions be writing laws to protect wedding vendors and bakers?

I'm sure you'll have something nice to say about the meanies in the black robes then.

reply to post by doubletap


Ok, but this is the last question I'm answering until you answer mine.

Yes, of course there are subtle ways to discriminate against others and yes I'm sure they happen all the time. There isn't much you can do about it either, legally that is because you would have to prove that the person was actually doing it for reasons other than the ones they gave.

So even though I don't do business with, let's just say Jews for example, as long as I say I'm not doing business with them because of some other reason I can simply use that other reason as my excuse even though it's really just that I don't like Jews and have decided to discriminate against them. As long as it can't be proven that the other reason given was a lie, I have nothing to worry about legally speaking.

Now, do I agree with such practices, no. But there isn't much that can be done about it. People are very creative and sneaky when they want to be and they will most likely find some way around doing what right and just in order to further their own desires even when those desires aren't respectful ones.

Bone75

SearchLightsInc

doubletap
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I despise religion and this bill protects the rights of business owners. You seem to think they shouldn't have rights.

Why is that? Childish ignorance, or no respect for rights for people who have opinions you don't like?

So business owner's have a right to refuse service to people based on their gender, race or sexual orientation?

Yes, clearly im the ignorant one with a few loose screws

No. Business owners in MS now have the right to NOT provide a service that causes THEM to sin.

Speaking for myself here, if a gay person comes to me and asks me to bake him a cake, I would be delighted to. Contrary to popular belief, my Bible commands me to love everyone and I live my life by that rule. I don't hate gays and I would never refuse service to someone just because they are or might be gay.

But if the same guy comes to me and asks me to make him and his fiance(?) a WEDDING cake, then that’s crossing a big red line for me because the Bible is very clear on how God feels about homosexual RELATIONSHIPS. That cake is going to be used in a ceremony that is an abomination to my God, and if I don't feel comfortable making the cake, then I shouldn't have to make the cake.

That's not judging someone, that's keeping my hands clean.

Same thing if I were a photographer...
Gay man comes to me and asks me to take his picture... no problem.
Gay man comes to me and asks me to take pictures of him and his partner... Big problem.

Can you please quote the Bible verse that addresses wedding cakes? That states that making a wedding cake, for anyone, is a sin?

Follow-up question: what if I get you to make a cake for my wedding, but have my own extra groom topper to go on it.

Are you still sinning when you make the cake in that case? If not why not?

Third question: are you familiar with the concept of ad absurdum?

Bone75
I believe I asked the question first and since no one dared to answer it, I suppose I will...

BECAUSE WE ARE PREPARING TO LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE!
DUHHH!!!!

Why else would a state that doesn't even allow civil unions be writing laws to protect wedding vendors and bakers?

I'm sure you'll have something nice to say about the meanies in the black robes then.

So are you saying that because Gay people will be allowed to marry you've decided to disallow them shopping instead???

There's also no need for the "DUHHH" comment. I don't live in Mississippi so why the hell should I know why people do what they do there??? That's why asked to question to begin with.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I agree with you that some people will find ways around it. But some will see that as "not the Christian thing to do"... At least I hope some will - I hope there are still some Christians who understand and respect one of the basic teaching of not judging, but loving and accepting other people, leaving the judgment and "punishment" to their God.

I really think that anyone who would discriminate in this way is not doing so because of some loyalty to their religion or their God, they're trying to hand out their own little bit of punishment to a community they abhor. It's a judgement and punishment. "I don't approve of what you do - it's wrong - and to punish you, I will use my power to refuse service to you." But I sincerely hope that some will see things another way.

And, over time, just as the whole interracial hubbub settled down, so will the homophobia. Seeing gay people being affectionate in public will become more of a commonplace thing and people will eventually adjust to it. Sure, there will be some who hold fast to their bigotry. After all, there are many hate groups in operation still.

SearchLightsInc
So taking wedding photo's of a gay couple now infringes on your religious freedom to? Hahaha! You couldnt make stuff up!

If you would read the article the Op referenced, it would probably help the flow of this conversation. Just sayin...

Gay people exist. You have to live in same society as them. You may well have to do business with them. Grow a pair and stop whining for god's sake!

I'm well aware of that, but I'm not the one whining. In case you missed that part as well... THE LAW PASSED.
Oh and my "pair" is so big that I have to wear briefs for support. Thanks for the concern though.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I think this is going to cause a huge mess. As an example if someone refuses to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple and claims it is for religious reasons and let us say they claim their religion is Christianity for arguments sake. I am unaware of any "sacred text" in that religion that forbids baking wedding cakes. So it would still go to court and the cake bakers defense attorney will then need to prove Christianity is against such a thing. It will put Christianity on trial as well as the baker.


Well on the bright side there will be some interesting debates on ATS.

reply to post by mOjOm


Since we agree it happens, why the opposition to the law then? Gays would know where their business isn't wanted, and as a result they could take their business to the Jesus freaks competition.

doubletap
reply to post by mOjOm

 

Since we agree it happens, why the opposition to the law then? Gays would know where their business isn't wanted, and as a result they could take their business to the Jesus freaks competition.

I already said I wasn't going to answer any more questions until you answer mine. I've even posted them multiple times and still no answers. This isn't a one way conversation where I'm going to endlessly address your questions and have mine ignored. So while I do have a good answer for you and your question, you'll just have to wait until you answer mine....