The Reason why The Bible says Hellfire is a Fabrication of The Truth.

I am of firm belief that there is a 'hell'.

It's not a literal lake of fire. The bible just uses imagery that humans can understand.

Hell is a state of being. And people pick hell for themselves. People who are in hell are there because they want to be. They reject good. They want nothing to do with good. They hate God and/or hate good. Therefore, being in Heaven would be torture for them and they run away from it.

If the 'gates of hell' were thrown wide open and the people inside invited to heaven, they'd pull the doors closed and scream 'go away, leave us alone'. (not that there really are 'gates of hell' ... it's obviously just imagery ... but you know what I mean'.

That is kind of how it was explained to me when I was younger, and it made sense to me.

reply to post by FlyersFan

'Good' is just a perception, I am sure the worst reality possible(hell) is knowing who you want to be and then not being it. Simple

deeezbeats

StallionDuck
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

It says they'll be rezurected. Not saved. Rezed and judged for life or 2nd death.

Well Paul wouldnt have had hope if he expected them to just be destroyed anyways.

Perhaps but I read a bit more than that one line and it seemed to say otherwise. That's why I mentioned as I did.

reply to post by deeezbeats



Hell/Hades/Sheol = Grave

Genesis 42:33"(The righteous man Jacob)However, he said: “My son will not go down with you, because his brother is dead and he alone is left. If a fatal accident should befall him on the journey you would make, then you would certainly bring down my gray hairs to the Grave(Hell) in grief.”

I am confused by this verse. I checked with the fourteen bibles that I have and did not find this verse in any of the fourteen bibles. Could you show me where you got that scripture?

2Samuel 22:6"The ropes of the Grave(Hell)* surrounded me;+The snares of death confronted me.+"

I noticed that you have the word Hell in parenthesis. The word grave has several meanings to describe the dead. It would depend upon what the context of the meaning is. There are three main divisions in Judaism today and not all will agree with the others. The rabbi that I talked to had this explanation of 2nd Samuel 22:6. The Torah does not use Greek meanings to express their language.

The JPS bible (old testament) of "2nd Samuel 22:6 is written "The cords of Sheol surrounded me; the snares of Death confronted me."

Rabbi's interpretation of this is that grave denotes the burial of a terrestrial body but not the spirit of that corpse. While it is true that the body is covered with earth and decomposes back to the source, does not mean that the spirit does the same. It is proper for a Jew to say "grave" meaning the dead body but it is improper to denote that the Spirit of that dead body is with that corpse. Now there are some gentile religionists who do believe this and that can be viewed as "soul sleeping."

As the spirit is separated from the corpse it is contained in the underworld of this earth known as Sheol. The Judaic thought being that Sheol is the containment of spirits of the souls. Along with this is the understanding that rabbinic philosophy is not the doctrine of Jesus. Their concept of resurrection is that at the last day in this era of people there will be a general resurrection of the spirits in Sheol who are united with the corpse in the grave and judged. The doctrine of Jesus is not the same.

The word Sheol is Hebrew and means a place in this earth where the spirits are contained till the resurrection. The word Hades is a Greek word meaning the same as the Hebrew Sheol. The words Gehenna and Hell are Greek words meaning the same which is understood as deriving from the Hebrew word hinnom. The Hebrew word hinnom is strictly a descriptive word derived from the terrestrial valley of hinnom which was the garbage dump of Jerusalem at one time. There are some people who interpret this entire subject as meaning that the Greek Hell is a subterranean compartment as in the Hebrew Sheol. This is explained as there being seven compartments of separation in Sheol with hell being only one of those compartments.

As Jesus taught His doctrine, it is very doubtful that He taught in Greek. That is another subject for another time but the consensus is that
when Jesus taught people of the dead in hell, He was referring to the spirit of that person and not the corpse which is in the grave. You must consider that the word hell is Greek and translated from the Greek manuscripts and that is the reason that you will not find the Greek word hell in the Hebrew bible. It would be improper for a translator to interject his own understanding when the original is available. The translator is not to give his own view point but to try to explain the meaning of the author from which he is translating into his language. That being done does not always show the original cultural meaning of the author.

Out of eleven bibles that I have checked, I find the word Sheol in six, the word hell in three, and the word grave used in two. I did choose what I thought to be the eleven most popular bibles but could be mistaken in my choice. I notice also that you have used a variety of bibles to bring your point to light and that also is not an honest comparative examination of your thread. Why would you choose various translators to make your point? If a translator is in agreement with you in one verse but then not in another verse then you seek out another translator to agree with your viewpoint. That to me is not an honest consensus by any means. If you cannot trust the one entire translation of a literature then you are not ever going to accept other opinions and that robs you of learning. In other words you will always be right in all matters in your own understanding and that is not healthy whatsoever.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The scripture verses you quoted in the op about ''the dead'' are referring to this intermediate stage between life and the afterlife.

I think the part in Ecclesiastes "they have no more share in all that is done under the sun." pretty much sums up the point of those quoted scriptures.

reply to post by Seede

I am confused by this verse. I checked with the fourteen bibles that I have and did not find this verse in any of the fourteen bibles. Could you show me where you got that scripture?

Genesis 37:35
All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “No,” he said, “I will continue to mourn until I join my son in the grave.” So his father wept for him.
(2011 NIV)

reply to post by deeezbeats




The doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell is NOT in the scriptures .....at ALL.Hell is translated from 4 words

Sheol-the realm of the dead,the realm of imperception, the grave.
Hades-the realm of the dead,the realm of imperception, the grave..
Gehenna-a place of pagan sacrifice or the burning trash dump outside of Jerusalem.
Tartarus-greek mythology of the eternal pit of destruction.

Tartarus is used once by Peter metaphorically as a place where "angels" are judged.Gehenna is no more.

Paul nor none of the apostles said ANYTHING about the eternal punishment of hell.Yahoshua is the main culprit however Yahoshua was not saying the things that many have extrapolated him as saying.Yahoshua means Yahweh (the creator God) IS the deliverer/salvation...the eternal punishment of hell doctrine is in complete contradiction to his nature and character.

Here are just a few scriptures that clearly state ALL of mankind will be delivered from the valley of the shadow of death...the physical realm of death which mankind currently "lives" in.That is the main function of deliverance/salvation.That is the GOOD news of the gospel because there is no BAD news of the gospel.


Eph. 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS WILL[not mans]."

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

Philp 2:9Why God also has highly exalted him, and given him a NAME [Yahoshua... Gods IS salvation] which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus(Yahoshua) EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Timothy. 2:6 "But we see Jesus(Yahoshua), who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he, by the grace of God, should taste death for EVERY man."

Heb. 2:9 "And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours ONLY but also for the sins of the WHOLE world."

1Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God OUR Savior;Who WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, NOT WILLING that ANY should perish, but that ALL will come to repentance."

Titus 2:11 The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN."

Luke 2:10..Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people."

1 John 4:14 We have seen, and do testify, that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior[Yahoshua] of the WORLD."

1 John 2:2.He [Yahoshua] is the sacrifice for our sins, and NOT for ours only but ALSO for the WHOLE world

1 Tim. 4:9-11 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach."

John 12:47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him NOT: for I came NOT TO JUDGE the world, but to SAVE the world

reply to post by Rex282


Thanks for that...

Especially showing "Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe.". That says to me that more than just those who believe will be saved. Interesting. I never noticed these words.

sk0rpi0n
@op... The Israelite religion teaches that everybody who dies remains in a state of death until the resurrection after which they will be either rewarded or punished. (See the very last verse in Daniel.) The scripture verses you quoted in the op about ''the dead'' are referring to this intermediate stage between life and the afterlife. Those verses are not disproving hell in any way.

the fact that you're refering the lake of fire as hell when they aren't even the same, let's me know you didn't read everything I posted. So I did not disprove the existence of the lake of fire, I disproved what the lake of fire is taught to be like. So show me why I didn't disprove of the mainstream lake of fire doctrine. Better yet, show me from the bible where souls are immortal and where the lake of fire is literal torture.

Seede
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

Hell/Hades/Sheol = Grave

Genesis 42:33"(The righteous man Jacob)However, he said: “My son will not go down with you, because his brother is dead and he alone is left. If a fatal accident should befall him on the journey you would make, then you would certainly bring down my gray hairs to the Grave(Hell) in grief.”

I am confused by this verse. I checked with the fourteen bibles that I have and did not find this verse in any of the fourteen bibles. Could you show me where you got that scripture?

2Samuel 22:6"The ropes of the Grave(Hell)* surrounded me;+The snares of death confronted me.+"

I noticed that you have the word Hell in parenthesis. The word grave has several meanings to describe the dead. It would depend upon what the context of the meaning is. There are three main divisions in Judaism today and not all will agree with the others. The rabbi that I talked to had this explanation of 2nd Samuel 22:6. The Torah does not use Greek meanings to express their language.

The JPS bible (old testament) of "2nd Samuel 22:6 is written "The cords of Sheol surrounded me; the snares of Death confronted me."

Rabbi's interpretation of this is that grave denotes the burial of a terrestrial body but not the spirit of that corpse. While it is true that the body is covered with earth and decomposes back to the source, does not mean that the spirit does the same. It is proper for a Jew to say "grave" meaning the dead body but it is improper to denote that the Spirit of that dead body is with that corpse. Now there are some gentile religionists who do believe this and that can be viewed as "soul sleeping."

As the spirit is separated from the corpse it is contained in the underworld of this earth known as Sheol. The Judaic thought being that Sheol is the containment of spirits of the souls. Along with this is the understanding that rabbinic philosophy is not the doctrine of Jesus. Their concept of resurrection is that at the last day in this era of people there will be a general resurrection of the spirits in Sheol who are united with the corpse in the grave and judged. The doctrine of Jesus is not the same.

The word Sheol is Hebrew and means a place in this earth where the spirits are contained till the resurrection. The word Hades is a Greek word meaning the same as the Hebrew Sheol. The words Gehenna and Hell are Greek words meaning the same which is understood as deriving from the Hebrew word hinnom. The Hebrew word hinnom is strictly a descriptive word derived from the terrestrial valley of hinnom which was the garbage dump of Jerusalem at one time. There are some people who interpret this entire subject as meaning that the Greek Hell is a subterranean compartment as in the Hebrew Sheol. This is explained as there being seven compartments of separation in Sheol with hell being only one of those compartments.

As Jesus taught His doctrine, it is very doubtful that He taught in Greek. That is another subject for another time but the consensus is that
when Jesus taught people of the dead in hell, He was referring to the spirit of that person and not the corpse which is in the grave. You must consider that the word hell is Greek and translated from the Greek manuscripts and that is the reason that you will not find the Greek word hell in the Hebrew bible. It would be improper for a translator to interject his own understanding when the original is available. The translator is not to give his own view point but to try to explain the meaning of the author from which he is translating into his language. That being done does not always show the original cultural meaning of the author.

Out of eleven bibles that I have checked, I find the word Sheol in six, the word hell in three, and the word grave used in two. I did choose what I thought to be the eleven most popular bibles but could be mistaken in my choice. I notice also that you have used a variety of bibles to bring your point to light and that also is not an honest comparative examination of your thread. Why would you choose various translators to make your point? If a translator is in agreement with you in one verse but then not in another verse then you seek out another translator to agree with your viewpoint. That to me is not an honest consensus by any means. If you cannot trust the one entire translation of a literature then you are not ever going to accept other opinions and that robs you of learning. In other words you will always be right in all matters in your own understanding and that is not healthy whatsoever.

Sheol is the same as Hades. Also referred to as pit. Both are considered the grave. I chose various translators to prove my point using more than one translation. If I stuck with only one translation, some might think the translation I used Is bias. I put Hell in parenthesis because people still confuse it with the lake of fire even though it will be thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:14"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."
The problem with many translations is when Sheol/Hades/Gehenna/Tartarus are all called hell when it should be only applied to sheol and Hades. Gehenna and tartarus both being two different things.

StallionDuck
reply to post by Rex282

 

Thanks for that...

Especially showing "Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe.". That says to me that more than just those who believe will be saved. Interesting. I never noticed these words.

Yes I find it EXTREMELY interesting (and disturbing) that BILLIONS can't see it.It is clear as day yet many can't see it because they don't want to.I'm glad you can see.

reply to post by Rex282

ALL of mankind will be delivered from the valley of the shadow of death...the physical realm of death which mankind currently "lives" in.That is the main function of deliverance/salvation.That is the GOOD news of the gospel because there is no BAD news of the gospel.

Yes.
Universally.

Sorry if you've discussed it before, but - do you believe in reincarnation? (I'm assuming here that you don't believe in Hell or eternal damnation. If I misinterpreted, please correct me.)

reply to post by StallionDuck

That says to me that more than just those who believe will be saved. Interesting. I never noticed these words.

Does that mean you're abandoning the 144K theory and that no one alive will ever get there?

That would just make my day.
(Not that anyone cares if they make my day).

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by StallionDuck

 

That says to me that more than just those who believe will be saved. Interesting. I never noticed these words.

Does that mean you're abandoning the 144K theory and that no one alive will ever get there?

That would just make my day.
(Not that anyone cares if they make my day).

If you show me my err then I will change my mind. In this case, he's showed me a new hope for my own case, and the lives of others. I will say that yes, it has changed the way I think about the 144k theory, but I will also say that the 144k theory still applies, just not the way I had believed before.

I'm not so stuborn to say that my way is right and will always remain. A big reason I'm open to discussion is to understand. Someone might have an answer I'm looking for. My mind is made up unless someone explains it to me another way that changes it or shows me something that will counter it.

This was a perfect example.

So I guess your day has been made

reply to post by Rex282

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

The verse that directly follows qualifies the statement in the verse you quoted.

But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
(2011 NIV)

"But we see Jesus(Yahoshua), who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he, by the grace of God, should taste death for EVERY man."

I think you got out of sync because this one is Hebrews 2:9.
Again, the following verse qualifies the "every",

In bringing many sons and daughters to glory . . .
(2011 NIV)

and the next verse,

Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

1 John 2:2.He [Yahoshua] is the sacrifice for our sins, and NOT for ours only but ALSO for the WHOLE world

The word "sacrifice" is added as an interpretation of the word that is in the verse, propitiation.
This could mean what keeps God from just destroying the whole world, outright, like in the the Old Testament flood.
It isn't a payment for sins because the Bible does not support such a theory.

1Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God OUR Savior;Who WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The 2011 NIV translates it as:

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

In my opinion we are living in "hell" right now. Look at the wars, lies, fear, propaganda, slavery, famine, pollution, etc., etc., etc. that happens every single day around the world.

Look at how we treat animals by locking them in tiny cages their entire lives only to be killed for food in the end. Look at all the pollution we cause by knocking down trees and natural habitats only to build concrete buildings and streets where they once stood. Look at how we destroy the planet for a few resources that will give us a few extra pieces of paper that have no intrinsic value other than the value we ourselves have put on it.

If you want to know what hell looks like, look at the state of the world we live in today. The world is this way because of greed and a lack of love for our environment and other life.

Why did Jesus teach us to love one another as ourselves? So we would avoid creating a world such as the one we live in right now. Since we did not listen and still do not listen, you get what we have today, a planet on the brink of war and destruction. It's too late to save it now though, all we can hope for now is what lies after death.

For those who can see, the afterlife won't be so different than this life, but hopefully we'll draw a good hand and end up in a place nothing like this one.

reply to post by deeezbeats

Text Sheol is the same as Hades. Also referred to as pit. Both are considered the grave.

Could you explain what you mean by grave? That could be the reason that so many people cannot get on the same page. Is your interpretation of grave as when a dead soul is placed in the earth after it has died? Does the physicality of the soul perish along with the spirit consciousness. Do you believe that the spirit of a person lives in a conscious state after death? Tell me exactly what happens to the personage of a soul after post mortem. Lets forget the smoke and mirrors of word challenges such as hell etc. Tell me the doctrine of Jesus and or the God of Abraham. Give me all details of your doctrine and please include any resurrections if that is part of your belief.

BuzzyWigs

Rex282:
ALL of mankind will be delivered from the valley of the shadow of death...the physical realm of death which mankind currently "lives" in.That is the main function of deliverance/salvation.That is the GOOD news of the gospel because there is no BAD news of the gospel.
..............
Yes.
Universally.

Sorry if you've discussed it before, but - do you believe in reincarnation? (I'm assuming here that you don't believe in Hell or eternal damnation. If I misinterpreted, please correct me.)

No I haven't discussed that specifically.

However I don't just NOT believe in a place called hell as the eternal damnation ....I know it is not true.It is not true because of reason, not wisdom and surely not "faith".It is self evident truth.The scriptures I quoted are a testimony of that Truth... they aren't the proof.The Truth doesn't need proof or belief it is only something that can be known.

As for reincarnation that is a more sticky subject but not nearly as destructive.The eternal punishment of Hell is the most destructive doctrine there .It is literally the antithesis of life and why I write so much about its falsity....As for do I believe in what is thought of reincarnation.....no.The religious(faith) construct of reincarnation is not true for the same reason the eternal punishment of hell isn't..it isn't reasonable and isn't Truth.It is mysticism and belief in things not known.

My suggestion is always live the life you have right now because it is your only life you have right now.Most reincarnation is just a variation of heaven and hell doctrines...a false projection of "another" life with redos.It has no purpose.It isn't salvation(being delivered from death) it is being reincarnated into MORE death.In other words it isn't "simply" reasonable.There are too many belief hoops to jump through that have nothing to do with truth just extreme mystical false conjecture.

The reality of salvation for all of mankind(actually all of the physical realm) is basic.It mirrors our physical life(actually our physical life mirrors it).It's a process of conception from seed to zygote, to embryo to fetus to birth.(which by the way is the parable of the seed and soils).The physical universe is "like" a matrix/womb.Our perception of reality is skewered like a fish in a round fishbowl.What is true is the fishes "perception" but it is "bent" perspective of the Truth.

Mankind's perception of "life" is not true.It is impossible to "perceive" the physical universe while IN it from a true perspective.In a sense it's because mankind is not "living" yet.That is where traditional religious reincarnation(meaning all reincarnation) is false.It is impossible to be "reincarnated" into a life that has not even begun to "live" yet..and again mans physical "life" is a perspective.Yes man is "alive" just as a zygote,embryo and fetus is alive however the fetus is IN the womb of their mother that is "living" (interacting) with the physical realm.Until that "life"is out of the womb it can't perceive anything outside of the womb.

Of course this is all allegorical metaphor.All we can know is we are not OUT of the womb.We can "perceive" our "bent" perspective by things inside the womb.The realm outside of the womb will function within the same laws as inside the womb but with more "dimensions" which will have laws unique to them.That is mans "longing" ,,mans intuition that there is something "outside" something MORE to the life we are living.It doesn't seem "complete" or fair.

They perceive they live and experience joy and suffering then ....they die!! a very, very short time later!!.That doesn't "feel" natural(or fair) to most people.Religion (belief) comforts them into whatever their "Belief System" wants.However the fact is Belief Systems are just that.... belief NOT fact/truth.They may have very faint "glimpses of truth but it is always "bent" to the fishbowl perspective.

Belief in "religious" reincarnation (because it can only be believed not known) is not reasonable.In other words it can't be truth.It is just one of the many of panaceas of a Belief System....which is a GOOD thing.The reality is to be reincarnated is to live and suffer again and again in vain.(Thank God it ain't true) because it is a futile endeavor to say the least.That is not to say that aspects of it aren't true.In one sense Yahoshua did "reincarnate".However that is because Yahoshua is the seed that EVERYTHING is made from.Yahoshua is the first fruit.The first fruit to produce more fruit.That seed was sown ONLY into the disciples. The majority of everything Christianity thinks is about them is only about the apostles(the disciples after the sowing).The apostles are the first fruit OF the first fruit.

....and at that point perspectives get very, very fuzzy.The more it is tried to explained(which Yahoshua did do) the more mystical it is perceived until it denigrates into religion(bad fruit from a bad tree). Yahoshua was NOT trying to teach he only proclaimed(stated) Truth.NO ONE (even the disciples didn't until later) understood what he said because they couldn't.He is from the Kingdom of God realm.He always was.He never did a "miracle" he was only acting in accordance to his nature in accordance to the realm he existed in.In that realm miracles are not miracles they are natural.Walking on water was not a miracle for him water was whatever he need it to be.He existed in both realms simultaneously and still does however he sowed the seeds of the Kingdom of God INTO the apostles.That's why he said unless a seed dies(is sown) it cannot produce fruit.That was the purpose and action of his death and resurrection.

A physical body is "needed" to be perceived and "enter" in this realm.That doesn't mean He was a disembodied "spirit being" and incarnated INTO a physical body or an illusion...again mans perspective is "bent" they can't perceive "real" reality.The reality is Yahoshua had to have a physical body because he was too "solid".The smallest particle of matter in the Kingdom of creator God realm is what all of the physical universe is made of!!In one sense Yahoshua had to become a "ghost" made of almost nothing" to live" in this realm.

....and of course once again mans perception can't perceive the whole of that reality because there are not enough dimensions.However some of mankind can and did perceive the stronger shadows of that realm(the Kingdom of the creator God)...and the first (and only) to do so are the apostles.They are the seeds of the fruit of THE Reality.They have not entered INTO the kingdom of God realm(No one has).However they were the first fetuses.They were and still are OF this earth Yahoshua was not OF this earth.He was of the Kingdom of the creator God because he is the Son of the creator God...the SEED of the Father.It all follow the same process as the physical realm because the Kingdom of God realm is the originator...the seed.

The bottom line is all of humanity is being conceived in the womb of the physical universe.They will ALL be "born anew"(which also means born on high") into the Kingdom of the creator God...EVERYONE.No one that was ever conceived in the physical realm(no matter the stage of life) was an accident because NOTHING is an accident!The Kingdom of God is IMMENSE!!(to use a dimensional reference).If the whole of the physical universe is nothing but a single atom in the kingdom of God mankind has no perception at all in comparison.Mans wildest imaginations are not even close to reality...

In short mankind has NOTHING to worry about.Yahoshua said this multiple times but who has listened.Multiple billions throughout history believe(ed) he will torture multiple billions in a literal hell for eternity.That is the complete opposite of the truth.God is "spirit" which means LIFE....to destroy life is impossible for the creator God it goes against their nature.That is the crux of the Good News Yahoshua proclaimed and so did the apostles.EVERYTHING else is religious belief and not true.

reply to post by Rex282


Your post was very good. Thanks for taking the effort to explain your perspective.

Belief in "religious" reincarnation (because it can only be believed not known) is not reasonable.In other words it can't be truth.

I'm not "religious", so I'm not talking about "religious" reincarnation.

In short mankind has NOTHING to worry about.Yahoshua said this multiple times but who has listened.Multiple billions throughout history believe(ed) he will torture multiple billions in a literal hell for eternity.That is the complete opposite of the truth.God is "spirit" which means LIFE....to destroy life is impossible for the creator God it goes against their nature.That is the crux of the Good News Yahoshua proclaimed and so did the apostles.EVERYTHING else is religious belief and not true.

Yes. Nothing to worry about.
Totally agreed.

Still - about 'non-religious' reincarnation....
it makes sense to me.

reply to post by StallionDuck

If you show me my err then I will change my mind. In this case, he's showed me a new hope for my own case, and the lives of others.

I wasn't going to show you anything, I just noticed you changed your mind!

I will say that yes, it has changed the way I think about the 144k theory, but I will also say that the 144k theory still applies, just not the way I had believed before.

Not getting that part. Either it does, or it doesn't. Earlier you said no one alive, and something about children....

I believe we all get there, after much struggle and strife living as incarnate/displaced parts of the Divine.

I'm not so stuborn to say that my way is right and will always remain. A big reason I'm open to discussion is to understand. Someone might have an answer I'm looking for. My mind is made up unless someone explains it to me another way that changes it or shows me something that will counter it.

This was a perfect example.

Very nice to meet you!!! I totally agree!
Still, I don't get how the 144K can hold up at all.

*extends hand* (*to shake firmly, not like a limp fish*)