Religion does terrible things to good people

Did i come in here and tell you your a bad person for being an atheist or that your irresponsible. As far as me borrowing money i choose to keep all my income tied away in tangible assets so money is not easily obtainable it has nothing to do with my income.



You will find men across all walks of life have had faith. I feel horrible at how empty you must feel with nothing to believe in. Personally i believe that's where many very bad people in history came from is that dark empty feeling and how they coped with it.


I am sorry if i offended you all and i will bow out of the thread

With respect and apologies

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Of course it's flawed...how can anything masses of people participate in not be flawed..religion, elections, certain communities, exclusive clubs, bingo parlors etc not be flawed...Religion or the practices of some components of religion are very good.

From this point forward just consider religion just a way of life for some just as atheism is a way of life for others...When I walk in Boston I'm never solicited by people holding a bible but more often people looking for money for their cause...I tend to gravitate towards donating to the homeless person who says nothing versus somebody who is asking for money..

Just keep in mind folks that religion is not a shield from doing bad things..most members on here put religion to high on a shelf and thus having their expectations crashed when someone screws up...that's not how life works and it's not a good reason to dismantle something because of some bad apples..this holds true for any race...we don't destroy a race of people because of a few bad apples or stereotypes..

Thecakeisalie

Firstly, how can the higher echelons in the church justify taking the earnings from a hard working man to fill their own coffers?

Secondly, how can church officials connive to take the hard earned money from a hard working man and assure them that God will take care of the rest? If god is love, then why do people have to pay for that love???

And finally, how do they get away with it year after year???

Because it's a scam.
It preys on the insecure, weak, gullible, honest, caring people who just want what's best but also want the decisions and responsibility taken out of their hands.

Religion is not only a crutch, it's also a treatment... it can cure all manner of ills, not real physical ills of course, but worries, fears, questions, personal issues.

It's an absolute disgrace that they are robbing that man and his family, he could just donate to charity if he wanted to help, not be scammed of his fortune to appease god or smooth his transition into the afterlife.

They should be jailed for robbing him

reply to post by Shaiker

By the sound of it and the way i interpret your response is that your family is not christian at all and its just for show.

Well that is the OP's point. I happen to agree with it.

I make a definite distinction however, between spirituality or Christianity and Church inanity you understand. The false man made religions in this world are the trap that precludes us from coming to the light of truth. The minister that stands at the doorway of truth and turns you away? Thats the Church.

In fact as the OP has stated so well, the modern version of church is inseparable from modern society. I thought we are supposed to forsake the world, not embellish it? To be "in it but not of it"? To not be a product of this world?

Look around in your church the next time you go. The parking lot is full of automobiles, the people are well dressed. They have money and fill the coffers with a little each. This is to assuage guilt and buy their way into heaven on the payment plan.
It justifies their arrogance and sidelines their notion of having to change their behavior every week.

I don't know about you personally but if you attend a modern American church you are exposed to the same regimen and program that most every other church uses to keep you hooked into going for the rest of your life.

Check it out for yourself. Try not going for a while and see how you feel.

You will feel "damned to hell" (insert Twilight Zone theme).

Thecakeisalie

Snarl
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

People's minds work differently. Like minded people tend to gravitate toward one another ... and a certain flock winds up under certain shepherds. Not taking poke at the church here specifically, just making a general observation.

The problem is that certain religious groups don't have the answer but are willing to charge for the answer anyway.

Now this person that I mention is not stupid, in fact I envy his craftsmanship. But he has been convinced that God will pave the way for his ascension and the only way to ascend is to pledge money to the church and reproduce recklessly.

I hear you, but if it was me, I wouldn't make it my business. There are people doing a lot worse (to themselves and others) than this acquaintance of yours.

the2ofusr1
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

I cant speak for all of Christianity but will say that in the Christian scriptures there are both warnings and ways of dealing with the corrupt influences that come from both the outside and from within .Strangely enough the subject is not taught at most seminaries and seeing the old guard from most of these learning institutions pass along to there mentors the same play book . It's a Jesuit device that creates a fifth column attack . Become what you want to control and destroy it if necessary .. the end justifies the means for them ..it's their mo and they were the first to create the universities to do so .

Oh there can be rules and ways to deal with corruption, but all that goes to the wayside if the wrong person gets into the right position. That's why I said, it only takes on bad seed to ruin it. 99.9999% of the followers can be good, honest people, but you get that ONE guy into a spot where he can manipulate everyone else to his benefit and then everything goes downhill. Since every human is susceptible to the same temptations, the only way to be truly sure that your organized religion cannot be affected by that one bad seed, is to have divine intervention. Well there hasn't been a religion on the planet yet that can (honestly) claim that.

Thecakeisalie
I'm going to tell you a story that may or may not flabbergast you.

A few years back my employers daughter did her taxes in the office workplace. She seemed stressed, claiming that her family was struggling to keep up with the finances. I immediately identified with this, given that my work was seasonal and I could earn as little as 250 dollars a week depending on the time of year.

But then I found out her families annual income- just short of 110,000 dollars a year.

I nearly fell over backwards when she said that, I couldn't imagine anyone on that salary having financial problems. Then I learned the truth.

She lived in a two income household, which happens to own a four bedroom house, three cars, and a super bike. Her husband is paying off the house but yet wants to sell it because “it's not big enough”, and then I found out they sold their sedan for a much more expensive SUV, because according to the husband, the sedan “wasn't big enough.” They live in the suburbs! Why the hell would they need an offroad vehicle???

When it came time to meet the husband I was pleasantly surprised- he was a genuine family man and quite pleasant company, but the real problem reared it's head. He was a seventh day adventist.

Now I have no problem with people who have faith, but I’ve met less than reputable people in the religious community. It turns out he was convinced (or rather was convinced) to have a much larger family, he was adamant he wanted five kids or more when evidence suggested that he can barely support the two kids he has. He prayed for his bounty at a meal, and I got the impression he believed that God will come good and let him continue to live beyond his means.

He then told me of his profession: He was self employed, and he had no employees. And like any good devotee he pledged to the church. But they don't accept food drives, however a cash donation will give you the grace of God. A few years later I found out that his donations went into a ostentatious building that also posed as a 'conference center' (which can be rented out at an affordable price.) Now this is not your normal church-I've worked on million dollar properties and this church makes them look like shanties.

Now here comes the questions.

Firstly, how can the higher echelons in the church justify taking the earnings from a hard working man to fill their own coffers?

Secondly, how can church officials connive to take the hard earned money from a hard working man and assure them that God will take care of the rest? If god is love, then why do people have to pay for that love???

And finally, how do they get away with it year after year???

Ok, here goes, ready?

1. The church body is to support and further the church, This is throughout the Bible so I'm gonna guess you don't read it much unless it's only to criticize it. And if that's the case, you will stay in that frame of mind until you stop warring with God. Just saying...

2. God's blessings are not dependent upon you buying them. God does not need your money. But God does want the Church to grow and enlarge itself until Christ returns. The last time I looked food, buildings, and things cost money. Church officials are not holding a gun to the man's head. If the man wants to give, he is free to do so, as you are free to withhold any help to the Church. And this will be sorted out when Christ judges the nations. There will be those who fed the poor and clothed them, visited them when sick or in jail. And those who could care less because they wouldn't give a dime to any church, period. Based on your love or lack of it is how we will all be judged. Money is irrelevant, love is. And the love for money is the root of all evil. Not the money, just the desire to keep it, cherish it, and never spend it on anyone but yourself.

3. And lastly. No one gets away with anything year after year. You should worry about yourself and leave Christian matters to the Christians. Doesn't that sound like a good idea? You can keep your money if you wish. Someday, if you become a Christian maybe you can have a say in Christian matters. Because then you would have read the Bible, not to criticize but to embrace it. Again, just saying...

I hope I helped you in some way.

reply to post by chrismarco


The only difference between the other things people do en mass versus religion is that religion claims to have a connection to the divine. It claims to be an instruction book on how someone should act and behave. But if it has a connection to the divine like it claims, then it needs to be held to a higher standard. You cannot just accept that religion can be corrupted as a way of life, because then it stops being an honest guide to how people should act and behave and loses its claim to its connection to divinity.

Religion in it's original form was pure and with good intention, but like everything else MAN ruined it. Our greed, hunger for power, ego's, selfishness, etc... get in the way and PERSONAL GAIN trumps the actual reason for religion/faith.

I have unwaiverable FAITH and belief in GOD. I think religion as it was intended is good thing, but I do not just follow what MAN has told me to follow. With some common sense and research you can understand the good things that religion/faith hoped man would carry on and pass on. Man is so easily indoctrinated, fooled, convinced, etc... that I can see why it is confusing and causes issues, but if you look at the root of why its become so tainted, lets look at ourselves.

That is why the most disturbing part of this, once again, is MAN thinks religion and GOD are the bad guys/bad influence and not once do they simply look in the mirror at the REAL problem. Easier to blame an ideology I guess....hence why our society today has run amok!

reply to post by Shaiker


How on Earth am I persecuting you?

If you felt offended then I apologize, but in no way did I ever persecute you. The point of my thread is that showing faith is good, exploiting faith is not.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I would agree the the main denominational types cant say that but I would also like to point out that there are some Churches that dont buy into the fallacy of needing a ordained minster that has the diploma . There are also many house Churches that don't have to contend with paying rent for a big building and somehow watching over a heard of people .They like the smaller flocks .It's a much closer family that way .

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Well there hasn't been a religion on the planet yet that can (honestly) claim that.

And I would respectfully disagree ... unless you 'meant' "a religion on the planet you're familiar with."

reply to post by Krazysh0t


So you don't subscribe to religion but you will tell those who do what they are doing wrong?

Wait I'm off base with your response...sorry..

chrismarco
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

So you don't subscribe to religion but you will tell those who do what they are doing wrong?

Sometimes the best answers to your problems come from someone standing on the outside looking in.

Snarl
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Well there hasn't been a religion on the planet yet that can (honestly) claim that.

And I would respectfully disagree ... unless you 'meant' "a religion on the planet you're familiar with."

Touche.

reply to post by the2ofusr1


That's good for them. Implementing the KISS method is a good way to keep that one bad seed from taking root. Though I did say earlier in the thread that there is nothing wrong with celebrating your faith or even celebrating it with others. It's the tradition, rituals, and dogma that I have a problem with.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by chrismarco

 

The only difference between the other things people do en mass versus religion is that religion claims to have a connection to the divine. It claims to be an instruction book on how someone should act and behave. But if it has a connection to the divine like it claims, then it needs to be held to a higher standard. You cannot just accept that religion can be corrupted as a way of life, because then it stops being an honest guide to how people should act and behave and loses its claim to its connection to divinity.

Sorry, I can accept that religion can be corrupted because humans are not perfect but that does not mean we cannot set high expectations for ourselves. there isn't much on this earth that cannot be corrupted, that includes animals, computers and our food.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


You do know as well that each country runs into much the same problem with corruption from within .It's not just religion . The governments have army's with bombs and have been known to use them on innocent civilians . Maybe the anarchist are correct ...peace

reply to post by chrismarco


That's fine. There is nothing wrong with having morals and standards. There also isn't anything wrong with having a belief structure. But in order to truly believe and follow, one needs to recognize that anything man-made can and will be corrupted and should be avoided. Especially since it can regard eternal salvation and divine influence.

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Hence the reason I'm a Libertarian and advocate for governments to be as small as possible.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Krazysh0t: You don't know how much I care for you ... it's a Lot. So, I'm going to say something in this thread in a way I normally would not.

Everything's gonna be alright. There is no Hell (separation). We're all on a journey together and we're all gonna be closer (than I can put into words) not long from now. The spans of our mortal lives are inconsequential compared to time itself. It doesn't matter 'what you believe' ... or 'what you don't'. What's going to happen will ... and being bothered about it, in any way-shape-form-or-fashion won't change a thing.

-Cheers