Religion does terrible things to good people

I'm going to tell you a story that may or may not flabbergast you.

A few years back my employers daughter did her taxes in the office workplace. She seemed stressed, claiming that her family was struggling to keep up with the finances. I immediately identified with this, given that my work was seasonal and I could earn as little as 250 dollars a week depending on the time of year.

But then I found out her families annual income- just short of 110,000 dollars a year.

I nearly fell over backwards when she said that, I couldn't imagine anyone on that salary having financial problems. Then I learned the truth.

She lived in a two income household, which happens to own a four bedroom house, three cars, and a super bike. Her husband is paying off the house but yet wants to sell it because “it's not big enough”, and then I found out they sold their sedan for a much more expensive SUV, because according to the husband, the sedan “wasn't big enough.” They live in the suburbs! Why the hell would they need an offroad vehicle???

When it came time to meet the husband I was pleasantly surprised- he was a genuine family man and quite pleasant company, but the real problem reared it's head. He was a seventh day adventist.

Now I have no problem with people who have faith, but I’ve met less than reputable people in the religious community. It turns out he was convinced (or rather was convinced) to have a much larger family, he was adamant he wanted five kids or more when evidence suggested that he can barely support the two kids he has. He prayed for his bounty at a meal, and I got the impression he believed that God will come good and let him continue to live beyond his means.

He then told me of his profession: He was self employed, and he had no employees. And like any good devotee he pledged to the church. But they don't accept food drives, however a cash donation will give you the grace of God. A few years later I found out that his donations went into a ostentatious building that also posed as a 'conference center' (which can be rented out at an affordable price.) Now this is not your normal church-I've worked on million dollar properties and this church makes them look like shanties.

Now here comes the questions.

Firstly, how can the higher echelons in the church justify taking the earnings from a hard working man to fill their own coffers?

Secondly, how can church officials connive to take the hard earned money from a hard working man and assure them that God will take care of the rest? If god is love, then why do people have to pay for that love???

And finally, how do they get away with it year after year???

It's called a scam. It's worked so well that it has lasted for centuries. Amateur scam artists have been trying to capture the magic of the tithing scam for centuries now.

reply to post by Thecakeisalie

People's minds work differently. Like minded people tend to gravitate toward one another ... and a certain flock winds up under certain shepherds. Not taking poke at the church here specifically, just making a general observation.

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


The problem is that most people who view religion subscribe to the idea that those who follow cannot do bad things...we are human and regardless of your faith or belief people will still do bad things despite their best intentions. A lot of police personnel join to help others and we know how that turns out at times. Don't judge the religion, belief or profession judge the individual.

As far as getting away with it? How does our government get away with things they do? When you corner any animal us included you do what you can to survive..not being a wise guy but people love to exploit power, power corrupts even the most noble..

reply to post by Thecakeisalie

Six Sociological Characteristics of Cults

[1] Authoritarian Leadership

Authoritarianism involves the acceptance of an authority figure who exercises excessive control on cult members. As prophet or founder, this leader’s word is considered ultimate and final. . . .
[2] Exclusivism

Cults often believe that they alone have the truth. The cult views itself as the single means of salvation on earth; to leave the group is to endanger one’s soul.
[3] Isolationism

The more extreme cults sometimes create fortified boundaries, often precipitating tragic endings .

[4] Opposition to Independent Thinking

Some cultic groups discourage members from thinking independently. The “thinking,” as it were, has already been done for them by the cult leadership; the proper response is merely to submit.
.
[5] Fear of Being “Disfellowshiped”

It is not uncommon in cults that people are urged to remain faithful to avoid being “disfellowshiped,” or disbarred, from the group.

[6] Threats of Satanic Attack

Finally, some cults use fear and intimidation to keep members in line. Members may be told that something awful will happen to them should they choose to leave the group….Such fear tactics are designed to induce submission. Even when people do muster enough courage to leave the group, they may endure psychological consequences and emotional baggage for years to come.

andynaselli.com...

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


I'm going to sound shallow here, but to be honest, more fool him to fall for that rubbish in the first place. You can't buy your way into Heaven!

I was bought up in a religious setting. I have my beliefs. Do I go to a church. No. Me and God are good just as we are. In private on our own personal level. He should ditch his posh church, and do things his own way. Without paying!

Snarl
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

People's minds work differently. Like minded people tend to gravitate toward one another ... and a certain flock winds up under certain shepherds. Not taking poke at the church here specifically, just making a general observation.

The problem is that certain religious groups don't have the answer but are willing to charge for the answer anyway.

Now this person that I mention is not stupid, in fact I envy his craftsmanship. But he has been convinced that God will pave the way for his ascension and the only way to ascend is to pledge money to the church and reproduce recklessly.

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


"Religion does terrible things to good people"

Faith is a powerful thing and i must say i am religious. I knew this was your way of taking a jab at religion to get a rise out of people like me. Whats a man that irresponsibly lives above his own mean have to do with religion. I give more than my fair share but to people whom need it. Does it make me a bad person that i went to the bank and borrowed quite a bit to help out with victims from the Philippine storm or the Thailand Tsunami.


I feel you persecute me for doing the right thing and helping others because after all its the christian thing to do. You should take a look inward cause there is a dark place inside try filling it with a light hell you might find some morals their and common decency.


Do not persecute me for my faith.

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


Thanks you just described the rest of my family TO_A_T_.

My fathers legacy was to require everyone to go to church every Sunday. I rebelled against "Churchianity" eventually and stopped going altogether. By then I was horribly guilt ridden for all my sins and to this day I am ostracized by my own family for it.

Oh they say hi and chat, but I can tell that behind their smiling eyes there is that church notion:

He doesn't go to church, he's therefore going to hell, must… not… love him.

All those other elements you describe are the perfect fit. Buying all the neater shiny toys, enjoying the fruits of ones labor to the hilt, materialistic crass consumerism is A-okay in the church. Render unto Caesar and all that.

What most people who are deeply embedded in church will hate to admit is that church is just another club. Like any club they have a club house, club meetings, club dues and a club president.

Blasphemy!

reply to post by intrptr


Your making a generalization of Christians their and its not quite right. Just because your father was fake and he hurt you doesnt mean all Christians are bad. By the sound of it and the way i interpret your responce is that your family is not christian at all and its just for show.

reply to post by chrismarco


You just presented a good case why organized religion in all of its forms is flawed. Having faith is one thing. Even celebrating it with other people is fine, but to organize it into specific rituals and meetings is where things start to go bad. With organized religion, all it takes is one bad seed to get in and pervert the whole experience. The only time organized religion would be good is if it was immune to corrupt influences. This would require divine protection, yet there is not a single religion on Earth that can claim this is true for their religion. They may pretend otherwise, but all are corrupt or have been corrupted in the past which proves that they don't have divine protection despite whatever they claim.

Shaiker
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

"Religion does terrible things to good people"

Faith is a powerful thing and i must say i am religious. I knew this was your way of taking a jab at religion to get a rise out of people like me. Whats a man that irresponsibly lives above his own mean have to do with religion. I give more than my fair share but to people whom need it. Does it make me a bad person that i went to the bank and borrowed quite a bit to help out with victims from the Philippine storm or the Thailand Tsunami.


I feel you persecute me for doing the right thing and helping others because after all its the christian thing to do. You should take a look inward cause there is a dark place inside try filling it with a light hell you might find some morals their and common decency.


Do not persecute me for my faith.

Please get over yourself.

I do good things for people every single day, I give £10 notes to the homeless when I have it, I would risk my life to save a stranger in a heartbeat.
Yet I am an Atheist, and according to Christians I am going to hell because of it.
So please do not persecute my lack of belief.

reply to post by OpenEars123


How does it give you the right to persecute me because im a christian? You started the thread not i.

ATS is a religion it requires quite a bit of faith to participate.

Is it ok for others to persecute you because your a conspiracy nut for you giving so many hours a week in reading and contributing each week?

Your in service as we speak except your attacking other members for their faith.

reply to post by Shaiker


I didn't start the thread - Please pay attention when you are posting.

And I'm not a conspiracy nut - Please don't make assumptions.

Clearly the irony is missed on you.

reply to post by OpenEars123


oops my bad...

If you ask the common population then they often refer to most people that frequent ATS as conspiracy nuts. The same way the word Christian rolls of your tongue in distaste you can be persecuted for frequenting a conspiracy site.


Its an example did you just get offended because i called you a conspiracy nut?

reply to post by Shaiker

Does it make me a bad person that i went to the bank and borrowed quite a bit to help out with victims from the Philippine storm or the Thailand Tsunami.

No. It makes you irresponsible. If you couldn't help them with what was already in your bank account, without taking necessities from your family if you have one, then you certainly had no business borrowing to do so. That behavior is by no means "biblical". However, it's your money, and your life. Do what you will. Just my opinion.

I feel you persecute me for doing the right thing and helping others because after all its the christian thing to do.

No matter what you've been told. Persecution is NOT a good measure of how good of a Christian you are, or how good your relationship with your god is. It's a falsehood. Persecution only serves to strengthen an individual or groups convictions. It doesn't make those convictions right or wrong. And helping others isn't the "Christian" thing to do. It is the human thing to do. It's built into us. All we have to do is listen to our own inner voice.

Not all churches are good. Not all religious people are good. Not all atheists are good. Overall what does that mean? Nothing. If you use the excuse that you knew one Christian/Catholic/Muslim/Buddhist that was bad so you wrote off the whole religion that is on you.

reply to post by Shaiker



You are forgiven.

No I took um bridge to your post which ended 'Please do not persecute my faith'

Which I thought was hypocritical as you were saying that to the OP, yet it affected me as I am a good person, but still get regularly told I am going to hell because I am an atheist.

It didn't bother me in the slightest that you called me a conspiracy nut, because i'm not

Shaiker
reply to post by OpenEars123

 

How does it give you the right to persecute me because im a christian? You started the thread not i.

There is no persecution going on in this thread. We are just saying that organized religion is a bad thing. I don't recall anyone specifically saying that you are a bad person because you participate in organized religions or anything of the sort. YOU are just taking offense to the argument that organized religion is a bad thing, that isn't persecution though.

ATS is a religion it requires quite a bit of faith to participate.

No, it requires a network connection, agreeing to the T&C, and creating an account. I can post on these forums without believing in ANYTHING that is posted. In fact I tend to take the skeptic's view on many different topics on these forums.

Is it ok for others to persecute you because your a conspiracy nut for you giving so many hours a week in reading and contributing each week?

Your in service as we speak except your attacking other members for their faith.

No, you are wrong.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I cant speak for all of Christianity but will say that in the Christian scriptures there are both warnings and ways of dealing with the corrupt influences that come from both the outside and from within .Strangely enough the subject is not taught at most seminaries and seeing the old guard from most of these learning institutions pass along to there mentors the same play book . It's a Jesuit device that creates a fifth column attack . Become what you want to control and destroy it if necessary .. the end justifies the means for them ..it's their mo and they were the first to create the universities to do so .