SeaWorld May Lose Killer Whale Shows Thanks to Shocking Documentary

Killer whales have a lifespan in the wild similar to a human lifespan.

While you can't capture whales in the USA, you can still buy them.

I think it's awful to capture a highly intelligent being and keep it in a cage. These orcas have social standing, life long relationships, language, and the list goes on. I'm glad steps are being taken to put a stop to this.

If you ever wondered what would happen if a human met an alien, we would toss them in a cage and make them do tricks. Whales and Dolphins are basically aliens in my eyes. Highly intelligent beings that live in a world we know so little about.

EnderMEM
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I have been to the aquarium.
Fact: sea worlds breeding practices aren't okay (would you breed a dog that's aggressive?)

Many people do pitbulls come to mind. But there is no comaprison to dogs this is a straw man argument.

Fact: orcas are immensely smart animals (they have big brains with many folds, similar to humans)

So do cows we eat them.

Fact: the aquariums they are kept in are too small p

i dont know actually what size should they be exactly?

Fact: sea world does do some good work, but they also worship the mighty $ a bit too much.

Well it helps keep the lights on isnt that after all the goal of any organization?

Indigent
reply to post by grey580

 

Ok ill admit it I have no proof Tilikun is unhappy, actually he is very happy, specially after sinking its trainers/trespassers to the death.

Its obvious Orcas are evil creatures we should hunt them down all for human safe keeping purpose.

this link confirms my hypothesis

Killer whale attacks on humans

6 attacks is the wild (0 deaths) vs 35 in captivity

Not sure your point you like to bring irrelevant things into the equations alot i noticed.Theres thousands of dog bites every year as well we can make the exact same argument for them.

husker13
Killer whales have a lifespan in the wild similar to a human lifespan.

While you can't capture whales in the USA, you can still buy them.

I think it's awful to capture a highly intelligent being and keep it in a cage. These orcas have social standing, life long relationships, language, and the list goes on. I'm glad steps are being taken to put a stop to this.

If you ever wondered what would happen if a human met an alien, we would toss them in a cage and make them do tricks. Whales and Dolphins are basically aliens in my eyes. Highly intelligent beings that live in a world we know so little about.

Oddly i agree with you its not right to capture them they're an endangered species. Luckily that practice has stopped. However your applying human traits to another animal we dont know if it applies its nothing more than speculation. Oh and just so you know theres alot of debate on if they actually have a language if you can prove that one you would be rich.

reply to post by dragonridr


it would seem that the standard of "reasonable doubt" is being replaced by "shadow of a doubt".

Beyond a shadow of a doubt it very scientific. But where actual life is involved, i think the standards should be more along the lines of "reasonable doubt".

Very few lack a reasonable doubt that orca's are not just dumb beasts. If proof is all that is needed to stop us from doing inhumane things to animals....then we have lost sight of what really matters.

reply to post by dragonridr


What i feel is relevant in my threads is relevant, you can leave when you want

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by dragonridr

 

it would seem that the standard of "reasonable doubt" is being replaced by "shadow of a doubt".

Beyond a shadow of a doubt it very scientific. But where actual life is involved, i think the standards should be more along the lines of "reasonable doubt".

Very few lack a reasonable doubt that orca's are not just dumb beasts. If proof is all that is needed to stop us from doing inhumane things to animals....then we have lost sight of what really matters.

How smart or dumb ther are shouldnt matter to treating animals properly doesnt matter if its an orca or a dog. As far as ive seen they take care of there whales maintain their diets try to offer stimulus in their environment they have vets on hand they maintain their tanks. If they were abusing these animals id be screaming with you. But if your going to try to tell us the animals are depressed and want to be free that is strictly a human trait and we have no idea if they have them, much less what they are.

reply to post by dragonridr


The tanks are so small as to not even be a fraction of the size of their habitat.

Their dorsal fin seems to display a phsysiological symptom that is mostly only seen among captive orcas.

More people die, many more people die actually, by confined orca's than by wild orcas.

Perhaps they have no mental issues. But the second point above points to something related to their captivity having an effect on them physiologically.

Do you guys even know how animals are trained ? From birth, thats how. From babies they are separated, then tazzed, beaten, and manipulated to do tricks. This is how they are trained. Orcas are carnivore. They eat meat. They are like sharks. To expect and animal like the Orca to not try to eat anyone in this small space is stupid.

You didn't even bother to watch the documentary? It is very good and tragic at the same time. Seaworld had been kicked out of Washington so they just moved the operation to a place where the laws did not prevent them.

It sheds a lot of light on the problems with keeping such large, far ranging and intelligent animals imprisoned. They talk a ton about how these animals are torn from family groups. The region of the brain responsible for emotion is huge. Did you know there was never one reported Killer whale attack on someone in the wild?

They practically live in unique tribes around the world, with their own unique communication and hunting strategies. One group might hunt seals, others sharks and rays...They teach their hunting styles.

The part that struck me the hardest was an interviewee pointed out that we will likely be looking back shamefully on this form of entertainment. (While panning to cheering people in the stands while the killer whale is on display)

More then half of the breeding for the whale in captive comes from the large male killer whale who attacked his trainer...

ZeroFurrbone
Do you guys even know how animals are trained ? From birth, thats how. From babies they are separated, then tazzed, beaten, and manipulated to do tricks. This is how they are trained. Orcas are carnivore. They eat meat. They are like sharks. To expect and animal like the Orca to not try to eat anyone in this small space is stupid.

No there not that was decades ago in fact now if they dont want to perform they dont have to there welcome to leave the area they dont even force them to stay in the tank where the visitors are. Oddly theres never been an incident of someone being eaten by an Orca. Drowned by one yes as it took them to the bottom of the tank If they understood this would kill them is up for debate. But just because they're dangerous doesnt mean they shouldnt be studied or somehow not worth the risks marine biologists take. That decision can only be made by that person its their decision if they choose to be around a giant mamal that can kill them instantly with a smack from its tale. But as far as eating people for some reason not really understood they dont.
weve found just about everything you could imagine in there stomach moose other killer whales seals you name it. Yet never 1 incident of trying to eat a human its actually odd and if you could figure out why theres a lot of marine biologists would be greatfull.

reply to post by dragonridr


Orca's, like other predator marine animals, use drowning as a way of killing their prey. It is a common tactic in marine life to take prey to far depths to end their life.

While you cannot be certain....this is that whole "reasonable doubt" vs "shadow of a doubt" standard I referenced earlier today. Essentially....we should not need a shadow of a doubt. We should only need reasonable doubt. These are intelligent animals. They know what we are doing to them. Maybe not in the abstract sense that a human would....but the intelligence is there.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Orca's, like other predator marine animals, use drowning as a way of killing their prey. It is a common tactic in marine life to take prey to far depths to end their life.

,

No actually they take huge bites out of there prey they have very strong teeth and jaws even stronger than a shark. They dont try to drown there prey dont know where you got this its never been observed anywhere other that in captivity. That is why the behavior is so odd if they wanted to kill the trainer could easily bite them in two. But they dont they purposefully restrain themselves even when they drown the trainer. The whale grabbed her took her to the bottom of the pool but could have easily bitten off her entire leg if he so chose to. As i said its somewhat of a mystery.

While you cannot be certain....this is that whole "reasonable doubt" vs "shadow of a doubt" standard I referenced earlier today. Essentially....we should not need a shadow of a doubt. We should only need reasonable doubt. These are intelligent animals. They know what we are doing to them. Maybe not in the abstract sense that a human would....but the intelligence is there.

Again presuming something to be true and proving its true is different for all we know the whale prefers living in captivity after all dont have to worry about a thing everything is provided. We see a similar thing happen in humans you have people released from Prison who will actually commit a crime to return some people like not having to worry about food or clothes etc. Even if they know doesnt mean they object because if there intelligent im sure they know there trainers love them and care for them much like a dog does with his owner. Your putting your feelings on a situation it may or may not apply to .

reply to post by dragonridr


ummm....

California Sea Lions were the most numerous prey items, and all age classes of Sea Lions were taken. Predation events on this species were very visible due to the relatively long process of incapacitating the Sea Lion by tossing, body and tail slams, and then in most cases, ending the attack by drowning the prey. In some cases, the Sea Lion was battered, drowned and killed, then towed along with the Killer Whales for several hours.

Harbor Seals have been identified as prey items from fur fragments or brief glimpses of the seal's presence before it was killed. They are possibly under-reported because of the cryptic and quick killing process used on these seals.

All age classes of Northern Elephant Seals were taken. Adult male Elephant Seals appeared to be prevented from taking deep dives by the Killer Whales and drowning was the suspected cause of death, often lasting up to an hour. Weaners were often taken quickly at the surface and a round of pummeling with flukes led to eventual drowning.

www.montereybaywhalewatch.com...

I have watched it myself. They do all manner of things to their prey. Including playing catch.

It sounds like you are describing a great white. Cold, calculating, not curious or interested. Just hungry. Killer whales...they are intelligent. And can be curious and playful. The catch with the sea lion is not a lot different that tossing the old pigskin around.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


your confusing two different behaviors from killer whales when they are killing for food its a quick process. When they are full they can move onto a game which to be honest we dont understand why. Now warning this is a killer whale attack but ill ruin the ending when they have have there fill they move on to a game with a live sea lion and then let him go.Bottom line is your confusing two different behaviors.

Cut the shows...give them bigger tanks if we need to keep them in captivity to keep them safe. No more catching them and breaking up families of whales, etc. Pretty easy choice there really. Despite any propaganda in the docu...treating animals humanely is the right thing to do. right?

reply to post by dragonridr



Are you saying that all pits are aggressive, and we should stop the breeding of them alrogether? This is obviously not the case, and any breeder, or zoologist/vet knows otherwise. You breed the qualities you want to see in the offspring.

Brain folds and fold depths can be a pretty interesting study to how smart an animal is, and their ability to reason. Orca whales have very large brains with many deep folds. Many scientists suggest that they may even have their own form of language, although this has not yet been proven. The bovine brain is nowhere near this level of complexity. Nice try.

Obviously we are doing something wrong when we are shortening the animals lives by a large %. Don't you agree? Yes, some of these animals would likely be dead if it wasn't for sea world taking them and shaking them up in their containers, but their are many other options, including ocean pens.

reply to post by dragonridr


That decision is NOT being made by marine biologist at sea world. That decision is being made by trainers, and it's not trainers studying orca whales, it's trainers putting on a show with orca whales.

Do you know how they do positive reinforcement training?
Step. 1 make sure the animal is hungry
Step. 2 make the animal perform a behavior or act
Step. 3 reinforce the act with animals favorite food
Step 3b if behavior does not occur animal does not get food, stays hungry.

You're preaching a load of crap. Orca whales can be studied in a variety of different ways, both in the wild and in open ocean pens.

Bottom line: Sea world has questionable breeding and safety records with their whales. These practices are going to come to an end in short order due to their willingness to endanger good people.

kosmicjack
reply to post by grey580

 

Right side?

I would think the right side is abandoning archaic concepts such as zoos and aquariums, especially given our modern technology. What do we really learn about animals in such a cruel habitat anyway...the behavior is not "normal". It's adapted.

edit on 3/7/2014 by kosmicjack because: (no reason given)

100% correct.

100%

reply to post by dragonridr


The link i gave seems to disagree with your assertion.