Kerry to visit Ukraine on Tuesday in show of support following Russian seizure

reply to post by Yusomad


Substantiate? Substantiate what?

The parallels are obvious and Putin is using pretty much the same excuse the Germans did prior to their invasion of the Czech republic. Have you seen what they have been saying on state-owned Russian TV about this? Claims of crimes and massacres of civilians, protecting "Russians" etc when no such thing has happened. They did the same in 2008 with Georgia, claiming 2,000 people "massacred" by Georgian soldiers as a pretext for invasion, when it turns out after the fact barely 180 civilians had died and most of which after the Russian invasion.

I am making the comparison because the appeasement line which allowed Germany to get away with that and anschluss with Austria is what led to the World War. Had Hitler been stood up to in time, chances are the War wouldn't have happened.

Of course, being such an astute commentator, you'd know this instead of making comments of no real value at all or trying to argue the point. I'm not "parroting" anything, just saying it how I see it, but at least I am actually saying something about the topic instead of making pointless personal attacks, something you could take a lesson from perhaps?

stumason
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Quite - at this point we're up the Munich crisis and the Sudetenland. The parallels are striking, especially if you consider the Georgia episode in 2008 as "Austria"...

It certainly seems though, at the moment, the West/NATO is just going to whine yet not do much beyond economic sanctions. Thing is, if we roll over here, where do we draw the line and how can we be trusted to uphold any agreements around the world. We have pledged to protect Ukraine in 1994 - if we don't stand up here, what is to stop China deciding it too wants a bit of this land grab party and go for the South China Sea?

You're on it like white on rice.

As Kim Jong Un gleefully fires off a handful of rockets over here in Korea, and a leaderless stuperpower wrings its hands wondering from which direction the first blow is going to fall.

Yahoo News - Ukraine in crisis | U.S. to Russia: 'It is an act of aggression; it must stop'

Poland just invoked Article IV under the NATO charter -

Update, 3:15 p.m. EST: NATO's secretary general said that the North Atlantic Council will meet Tuesday following a request by Poland under article 4 of NATO's founding Washington Treaty:

Under article 4 of the Treaty, any Ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened. The developments in and around Ukraine are seen to constitute a threat to neighboring Allied countries and having direct and serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area.

The Russian Ambassador to the UN apparently was taken to task by the US Ambassador over his remarks -

Update, 3:52 p.m. ET: U.S. and Russian ambassadors exchanged sharp words at the United Nations in New York on Monday. Vitaly Churkin, Russia's ambassador to the U.N., said ethnic Russians are under attack in the Ukraine from "anti-national radicals" and defended the possible use of force in Crimea.

"We're talking about defending our citizens and our compatriots, on defending the most important human right, the right to life," Churkin said.

"There is no evidence that ethnic Russians are in danger," U.S. ambassador Samantha Power responded. "Russia is trying to convince the world community that up is down, and black is white.

Ukraine letter to United Nations outlines nation's situation

A draft law on annexation of the Crimea was registered today in the Russian Parliament.

Yesterday, 2 March, trying to capture the armory of Ukrainian Air Tactical brigade (near
Sevastopol) Russian Armed Forces used stun grenades against Ukrainian soldiers. As a result
Ukrainian officer sustained brain-contusion and shock and was brought to medical facility.

Tonight, Russian Air Forces aircrafts twice illegally entered Ukrainian airspace
threatening air security. These incidents received proper reaction from Ukrainian Air Forces, as
Ukrainian aircraft immediately took off towards violators and was in the alert zone ready to act
against violators of State airspace border, which allowed avoiding serious consequences.

Today Ukrainian military base in Kerch was surrounded by Russian soldiers.

Russian Military blocked Ukrainian military units in Novoozernoe, Perevalnoye and
Feodosia, demanding to surrender and seal arms and ammunition, while promising to ensure
security with submachine gunners of Russia. Ukrainian navy troops refused to comply with the
Russians orders.

Ukrainian Navy ships have been blocked in Sevastopol Bay by Russian Navy vessel KIL-158, seagoing tugs and patrol boats of the RF Navy. The representatives of the Russian Navy delieverd an ultimatum to the personnel of
corvette "Ternopil" and command ship "Slavutich" to lay down their arms until 18.00 March 3
and leave the ships otherwise they will open tile fire. Ukrainian sailors clearly stated the oath of
allegiance to Ukrainian people.

Today the first attempt has been made to capture the Ukrainian Navy Headquarters by
armed men, and the other attempt is expected.
Russian Special Forces continue to capture the military and border facilities in the
Crimea, offering Ukrainian army to voluntary surrender until 18.00 today.
In Feodosia City the Russian Kozaks groups have been capturing all administrative
buildings and started to distribute the arms to civil volunteers to form the self-protection
groups.



Ukrainian Border Service headquarters in Crimea has been captured and blocked by
Russian troops. At noon, Russian soldiers with military trucks broke down the doors, destroyed
workstations and communications equipment.

There has been drastic increase of pressure from Russian military on Ukrainian border
guard officers. During seizures of border guard units there was brutal use of physical force,
threat of weapon and menace. Professionals of Russian Special Forces try to perform
psychological pressure on border guard officers and in categorical form demand to obey to the
new authorities of the Crimea Autonomous Republic. They actively make attempts to crimp
personnel, call for information on investigation-operational divisions and information on
operating personnel.

Russian military forces continue implementing their plan of complete blockade of
communications in Crimea, in order to cut communication of Ukrainian Armed Forces in
Crimea with General Staff.

Russian military nearly every half hour commit provocations in Crimea.
A series of provocations were carried out over the past few days, which would aim to
legalize the presence of Russian military contingent in Crimea.

In contrary, Ukrainian armed forces are protecting their staffs, military units and bases,
and are not responding to any provocations that occurred over the past days.
Due to blockade of all state institutions in Crimea by the Russian Armed Forces, these
institutions are almost unable to function properly, which creates social tensions in population.

Today, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine officially informed about the rapid
increase in number of military machines and equipment on the Russian territory along the
Eastern border of Ukraine, namely Kharkiv, Lugansk and Donetsk regions. It includes, 9 trains
of military equipment (APC) unloaded from Voronezh side, 5 armoured vehicles (APC) and 2
mechanical transport vehicles from Bochkove- Leninskoye with field kitchen.

Governor of Rostov region of Russia ordered to deploy camps in Russian districts
bordering Ukraine.

Such activities of Russian Armed Forces indicate their preparation for a possible
invasion by Russia into Ukraine not only in Crimea, but also in to Eastern regions in Ukraine.


As of today, since 24 February, approximately 16,000 Russian troops have been
deployed in Crimea by the military ships, helicopters, cargo airplanes from the
neighboring territory of the Russian Federation. The Russian troops keep taking their
attempts to seize, block and control crucial governmental and military objects of Ukraine
in Crimea: the Parliament of Crimea, all civil and military airports, means of
communications, radio stations, customs service, military and coastguard bases,
Headquarters of the Ukraine's Navy in Crimea. All main roads are blocked.

Also a large number of Russian military troops is ready for being redeployed from Novorosiysk.
Access to the Black Sea is blocked by 10 Russian Navy vessels, including vessels of Baltic Fleet.


Permanent Mission of Ukraine will continue to inform all Permanent and Observer Missions to the
United Nations on the latest developments of the situation in Ukraine. Actions by the Government of Ukraine for normalization of the situation in Crimea The leadership of Ukraine takes appropriate measures aimed at political resolution of theconflict with the participation of the UN, OSCE and other international organizations.


The Law of Ukraine "On State Language Policy", adopted in 2012 (protecting languages
of national minorities) is still in effect. Acting President used his right no to sign draft adopted
by the Parliament. As of now, Russian language is as protected as it was before on all territory
of Ukraine, particularly and especially in Crimea.

Acting President Turchynov has mandated to establish a worldng group for "immediate
elaboration of a new Law of Ukraine "On Language", to consist of all ethnic groups and
national minorities.


Yesterday, highly respected persons have been appointed as Governors of Eastern and
Southern regions of Ukraine. All of them are locals of those regions, and not members of any
political party. It was an important step to calm down situation.


Members of new Ukrainian Government come from different regions of Ukraine,
including Eastern and Southern regions. These people will duly represent interests of those
regions. 4 (four) ministers of Ukrainian Government were born in Russia.


Despite existing economic problems, Government of Ukraine has provided necessary
financing to the population of Crimea in order to avoid social tensions.


Acting President Turchynov supported the establishment of the "Council of National
Trust." He stressed that the country will always protect rights of its people "no matter what
language they speak, no matter where they live, and no matter what church they go to."

Kerry going to the Ukraine is a BAD idea. What happens if someone shoots him? It will be the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand all over again!

LookAtThisMarsRock
Kerry going to the Ukraine is a BAD idea. What happens if someone shoots him? It will be the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand all over again!

The PM Cameron is also heading to Ukraine.

The US just froze all military cooperation / planned maneuvers / etc with Russia - Breaking News.

Tindalos2013

"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext," the secretary said...

Did he really just say that.

I know, there are two things wrong with this statement - number one, the U.S. has been doing that for the past ten years, and number two, I think John Kerry means "20th Century Fashion."

I think he might have been better off saying "Invading another country on a completely trumped up pretext is so last decade."

Xcathdra

LookAtThisMarsRock
Kerry going to the Ukraine is a BAD idea. What happens if someone shoots him? It will be the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand all over again!

The PM Cameron is also heading to Ukraine.

That is exactly what I was thinking, and Russia seems to be completely ignoring the West and is fed up with them. They are already sending in armor to Crimea. Putin seems to move a lot faster than Obama on his agenda. So if Kerry gets there Tuesday, that gives him something like 48 hours from now plus a bit more to get in and get out before a possible war breaks out.

darkbake

Xcathdra

LookAtThisMarsRock
Kerry going to the Ukraine is a BAD idea. What happens if someone shoots him? It will be the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand all over again!

The PM Cameron is also heading to Ukraine.

That is exactly what I was thinking, and Russia seems to be completely ignoring the West and is fed up with them. They are already sending in armor to Crimea. Putin seems to move a lot faster than Obama on his agenda. So if Kerry gets there Tuesday, that gives him something like 48 hours from now plus a bit more to get in and get out before a possible war breaks out.

I think the plan is not only to show solidarity with Ukraine by sending high ranking official's (which also reinforces the legitimacy of the government) but it also places pressure on Russia to hold back with whatever plans they may have. If a foreign leader / official is injured / killed because of Russian actions inside Ukraine, it will be that much harder for Putin to justify his actions. It would also have the result of creating public support for possible military action as the situation now involves the death of other nationalities. It also goes to show that those nations that support Ukraine feel safe with the knowledge the Ukrainian government is capable and responsible acting when it comes to the safety of foreign citizens.

Just my opinion.

The longer this goes the harder it will be for Putin to justify his actions. The global community / UN is asking for Russia to back its claims / justifications for their invading Ukraine, and to date they have been unable to provide that info / evidence.

One report from Ukraine discusses pending Russian legislation that formally annex's Crimea.

I just realised, Russian seizure? Like, the coupists? The rightwingers? Becasue the russians havent taken a thing yet. I guess shills do what shills do...

Just hope the poor kerry is not killed in the process.

Kerry much like Obama he's not gonna do much.They are backing fascists while denying that's exactly what they are.Right now the guys in Kiev are "Freedom-Fighters."When the western media starts to talk about this will be when NATO and The EU are not getting sweetheart natural gas deals.

mike dangerously
Kerry much like Obama he's not gonna do much.They are backing fascists while denying that's exactly what they are.Right now the guys in Kiev are "Freedom-Fighters."When the western media starts to talk about this will be when NATO and The EU are not getting sweetheart natural gas deals.

if you don't mind me asking, who labeled them freedom fighters?

What makes their actions fascist?

So what happened to the Russia declared war thread-Live updates?

reply to post by Xcathdra
These parties in Kiev are right wing and neo-Facist parties.Not to mention the hooligans the Ukrainian oligarchs have paid to occupy the public squares.

reply to post by SLAYER69


And maybe Russia will invade and keep him ... Would anyone be upset at that? Aside from the Ukrainians I mean. I by no means want them to lose their country, not least to Russia whose history of ruling Ukraine has hardly been benevolent.

mike dangerously
These parties in Kiev are right wing and neo-Facist parties.Not to mention the hooligans the Ukrainian oligarchs have paid to occupy the public squares.

You mean these oligarchs?

The ones who got Yanukovych elected while amassing a personal fortune while he was President?

If you are going to sling mud you should make sure the mud is not coming from the same pile.

They all about burned the city down and gone up against shooters in the streets. Yup Brave people alright. Old John is over there patting them on the back and giving them a billion dollars of our money, while out economy flat lines. Now if we risen up against our government in the same manner, we would be labeled as terrorists and gunned down and drones on our heads. We wouldn't be getting pats on the back and we certainly wouldn't be getting a billion dollars for our bravery.

Xcathdra

neo96
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Has Russia not started to revert back? How many "capitalists" in Russia have been put in prison on BS charges while having their business confiscated by the government of Russia?

I attribute that because they wouldn't play ball with Putin.

Not as a reversion back to communism just the mobs way of doing business to get rid of the competition.

Just that it's legal over there.

Businesses in the former Soviet Union were controlled via the government. That is exactly what we are seeing once again in Russia. Establishing work laws / etc is one thing. Arresting and imprisoning business leaders because they wont play ball with Putin is what happened when the Soviet Union was formed.

It's just like China. They dropped the Marxism and that pesky need for solidarity and improvement of the conditions of the proletariat, but keep Leninism and its totalitarian dictatorship and militarism.

Yay!

sean
They all about burned the city down and gone up against shooters in the streets. Yup Brave people alright. Old John is over there patting them on the back and giving them a billion dollars of our money, while out economy flat lines. Now if we risen up against our government in the same manner, we would be labeled as terrorists and gunned down and drones on our heads. We wouldn't be getting pats on the back and we certainly wouldn't be getting a billion dollars for our bravery.

We get to overthrow our government every 2 years, so no.

reply to post by Xcathdra


It is interesting, I have started to notice from this Ukraine crisis that these days the war is fought with a team of lawyers more than traditional weapons. Even Obama and Putin keep on mentioning each other's legal teams.

I think with all of the treaties and international law (which Putin and Obama keep accusing each other of violating) it would take some real balls just to blast into somewhere, guns blazing, WWII style.

Am I imagining this? What do others here think? How did I not notice this before now? I guess it wasn't as obvious even as recently as the Syria crisis to me, but I think everyone (except for North Korea) is shackled to peace by all the international laws.

North Korea has a policy of self-reliance. This keeps it legally and economically independent. It uses nuclear weapons to keep itself independent for defense purposes, as well.